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Musical Instruments as weapon type for bards

khitomerkhitomer Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
edited September 2020 in General Discussion
One of the best things about AoC it seems to me is that it can really introduce a genre defining way to play a staple fantasy theme character in the form of a bard. Usually when i hear the word bard, I think of when I was first introduced to the concept of what a bard is back when as a kid I would read Asterix comics. The bard of the village was Cacofonix, who in a tragic twist of irony was actually the literal antithesis of musical harmony personified, and used to reduce all listeners to howls of displeasure and pleas to stop the infernal racket he produced. Now, I realize bards have a much deeper foundation in D&D/mmo fantasy which is far more akin to their actual historical reality, but I wonder if there are certain conventions to do with bards that can be adhered to properly for the first time in a ground-breaking mmo like Ashes.

One thing which comes to mind is if bards, and especially something like the class variant of minstrel, could have specific weapon types that are perhaps unique to them (not necessarily ubiquitous relative to other weapon types in the game), such as lutes or harps/lyres. Imagine for example a legendary lute, specific in both visual design and lore to a minstrel, having appropriate stats or properties fitting to that class. And imagine if there were animations where a minstrel actually plays cords for various abilities on it. Does anyone else have the idea that to really realize the class fantasy of a bard or minstrel, something like that should be woven into the game? Imagine also as a cosmetic variant of cords played, you could get different musical genres. Like, for a heavy duty longer cooldown spell like some sort of group buff, the minstrel plays a heavy metal tune.
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Comments

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    My personal notion of what a bard should be goes beyond musical instruments.

    To me, a bard in a fantasy setting like this is anyone joining a company of adventurers with the primary goal of gaining insperation for what ever art it is they have chosen.

    I am not a big fan of the notion that a bard should have to play music at all - to me, a bard that is all about the spoken word is every bit a bard - and more specifically with a minstrel, that could include jugglers and comedians if you wish, as it is simply a term (long since out of general use) for all entertainers. Professional sports players could call themselves minstrels if they wished, as they are entertainers first and foremost (don't tell Anthony Joshua I said that).

    While I want to see bards have the ability to play musical instruments (all people should, in fact), I don't personally see it as key to the class, and absolutely don't see it as something that should be happening during a fight.

    Singing maybe, but if the group of adventurers the bard is with is under attack, that bard should have some form of stabby weapon to stab those would be attackers.
  • khitomerkhitomer Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Yeah, a one handed sword or dagger as well for some offensive abilities, but when going to cast a buff or debuff in real time combat, the singing and playing on the instrument would be an awesome part of the class fantasy.

    It would be unfortunate if a minstrel for example was relegated to being a minstrel type of character in name only.
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  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited September 2020
    Japanese monks would beat you up with hard wooden flutes.
    Daikokuji-Sasayama_Komus%C5%8D_Shakuhachi_%E5%A4%A7%E5%9B%BD%E5%AF%BA%EF%BC%88%E7%AF%A0%E5%B1%B1%E5%B8%82%EF%BC%89%E4%B8%B9%E6%B3%A2%E8%8C%B6%E7%A5%AD%E3%82%8A_%E8%99%9A%E7%84%A1%E5%83%A7_DSCF1443.jpg

    Since their head were covered, many ninjas roleplayed as monks to infiltrate cities.
    They could carry weapons in plain sight.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGRUL5RbuGo
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited September 2020
    Also, bards should definitely play some bard core:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwBi5ukkcvI
  • SorfSorf Member
    edited September 2020
    Dark Age of Camelot came out in 2001/2002 and had Bard's and Minstrel's, they used musical instruments for skills and buffs and a small shield and sword for some melee damage which I think was the best implementation.

    This is a brief run down of how they utilised instruments and weapons.

    A Minstrel had drum which gave them a group speed buff, a flute to CC enemies and put them to sleep & a charm spell to get a pet whilst the spell was active. A lute for a mana regen over time song/spell and a health over time song/spell. A couple insta damage "Shout" spell's, and a instant stun "shout" spell. You could only use 1 instrument at a time, or swap to a weapon.

    The neat thing at the release was you could only have 1 spell active at a time but when the spell it ended it still ticked over for say 3 secs, so that meant you could weave 2 spell's/songs at a time with the overlap. So most twisted group speed and the pet charm before/during combat, and during down time it was pet charm and mana or HP regen. This brought a certain skill level to the class, if you could weave it was a strong class.

    It might sound quite convoluted but really you had a certain instrument for a time, so a drum for speed and pet or your main hand and a sword on your 2nd weapon before combat. During combat you switch to a flute for CC, with a sword as 2nd weapon, and after was Lute and sword for regen.

    You could do all this with 1 bar for the active necessary skills such as 1.Speed, 2 CC, 3 Charm,4 Mana Regen, 5 Dmg Shout, 6 Stun Shout and 7 Weapon skill and 8 class skill. (DAOC actually had lots of skills and bars as time went, this is just an example if AoC wanted to keep it simple.)

    Then after some years with a DLC they brought out a harp which did it all in 1 instrument, which was a drop from a dragon raid which was cool.
    They could spec into a melee damage skill line which was for minimal damage, but the CC, buffs and skills they brought were invaluable.

    EDIT: it's really worth a look at youtube for DAOC Minstrels, as it really is how people want/describe them on forums.
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  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited September 2020
    There's only been one MMO I played as a bard with a lute, I don't remember the name.
    The biggest problem was that disjointed musical sounds don't make for fun combat and get annoying really fast. If bards are like this, there needs to be an option to mute them and they DEFINITELY should not be EQ'd to the front of the soundscape.

    You could also consider the Hunting Horn class in Monster Hunter - they're pretty clunky though and still spend most of their time using the horn as a heavy bludgeon.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • As a former long-time DAoC and LotRO player i think it would give the bard archetype a nice unique flavor. Played bard/minstrel in both games and never got annoyed of the sounds my instruments did.
    For RP purposes i would go even further: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/46191/idea-for-further-rp-content-after-launch-music-instruments#latest
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    “Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.”
    Terry Pratchett
  • Give me my Ocarina!
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  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Warhammer 40k Chaplain War Chants:

    ""And so the Lion sayeth SMITE, and they did smite, and all who came before them fell. Those with righteousness in their hearts found salvation in the glory of the Emperors light. Those with darkness in their souls sought the comfort of daemons, and did become unto daemons themselves. And to them the Lion sayeth DIE, and they did die. And then the Lion said 'He Shall Fall', and he fell.""

    "AND I SHALL BURN THE HERETICS FROM MY SIGHT, AND THE ALIEN SHALL BE CAST DOWN IN MY RIGHTEOUS FIRE. I AM THE FLAME AND IT LIVES IN MY CLENCHED FIST. SO AM I ARMORED FOR WAR, A BRAZIER TO PURGE THE DARKNESS THAT ENCROACHES.

    IT IS RUIN AND FURY. MY HEART IS MOLTEN INCANDESCENT AS THE BLOOD OF THE EARTH. CONSUME THEM! RENDER THEM UNTO ASH AND SMOKE!

    THE TAINT SHALL BE CLEANSED, IT'S PERFIDY RID FROM THESE HALLS. FOR I AM THE FLAME AND IT LIVES IN MY CLENCHED FIST. I AM THE FLAME AND IT'S CONFLAGRATION SHALL BRING HELL UPON THE HELL BORN
    "
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  • When I think about Bards and their weapons. This video always comes to mind. 😁

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