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Caravan abuse?

Lil DiddleLil Diddle Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
in General Discussion
This has been a concern of mine since I heard the sound bite saying that guards can be hired for a caravan. This really depends on 2 questions being answered.

Question 1: What is the limit to the number of participants in a single zone of Caravan PVP including the hired guards.
Question 2: Do hired guards for a caravan interact/attack the outside world if someone in the group aggros a mob.

What is stopping me and 5 friends maxing out hired guards on 6 different caravans (I chose 6 for this example but really there is no upper limit) and walk this caravan into a world boss? What happens...and who gets the loot if the guards kill the boss/lead in damage. Can you take this walking army to a castle siege (I dont know how a caravan interacts with instancing).

These are just my concerns, if there are limits posted somewhere that I missed I apologize, please link the source.
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Comments

  • KneczhevoKneczhevo Member
    Most Caravans are going to travel along the roads. The Kings gold and Mayor resources, in this case.

    Private caravans (player) are at the control of the owner. No idea why you'd want to take a caravan to a boss, and loose those resources and items. Also, lessor mobs are near the roads, so chances are, those mobs won't be a threat.

    As to your other queries? Dunno.

  • KneczhevoKneczhevo Member
    I'd like to add:

    I doubt AoC will allow you to "train" mobs. Most MMORPGs have implemented a teathering system to prevent trains, as it wasn't a favored mechanic (as fun as it was, for griefing).
  • ShaladoorShaladoor Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    @Kneczhevo I think you're assuming there are resources and items within the caravan. The point of the caravan in this example isn't to transport goods, but to hire guards to kill things. I think the OP would create a caravan with 1 gold in it with a full complement of guards, if possible. But if you make the cost of a caravan high enough, I do agree and don't see the point in using a caravan to try and cheese things.

    I have a few ideas on how this could be limited:

    1. The number of guards scale with the size of transported goods. If you are transporting a small amount of goods, you can't hire a full set of guards. This would force you to transport a large amount of goods if you want a full complement of guards. It would also signal to other players the size of treasure to be plundered. If you see a full set of guards, you know they're guarding a lot of loot.
    2. Guards could despawn if they travel too far from the road.
    3. Guards could be tethered to the road, and simply can't run too far from it.
    4. Guards could despawn if the player who controls the caravan opts into another activity, like a castle siege. They could receive a warning to leave the area before guards decide to leave ("This isn't what we signed up for!")
    5. Guards could receive extra damage from certain types of mobs (i.e. bosses or world bosses).
    6. Guards could simply be programmed not to attack certain types of mobs (i.e. bosses or world bosses).
    7. Make guards in one caravan hostile to guards in other caravans, so they can't "work together".

    I think it's a good thing to look into, to avoid any kind of exploitation or abuse. I think it will be easy to fix, though.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    This is how I imagine caravan guards to be like:
    At the beginning, when you set up the caravan you first decide the size; 1 wagon, 2 wagons etc.
    After locking that in, you get to hire caravan guards with a max that is dependent of the amount of wagons that you currently have chosen.
    These caravan guards will only spawn, if something attacks the caravan wagons directly. They wont be able to aggro mobs, and in turn will only attack mobs if they attack the wagons. They wont care if the players get attacked.

    Caravans will most likely only be able to traverse roads etc.
  • Exiled KingExiled King Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Damokles wrote: »
    This is how I imagine caravan guards to be like:
    At the beginning, when you set up the caravan you first decide the size; 1 wagon, 2 wagons etc.
    After locking that in, you get to hire caravan guards with a max that is dependent of the amount of wagons that you currently have chosen.
    These caravan guards will only spawn, if something attacks the caravan wagons directly. They wont be able to aggro mobs, and in turn will only attack mobs if they attack the wagons. They wont care if the players get attacked.

    Caravans will most likely only be able to traverse roads etc.

    I can see an issue with latency or being able to cheese a sneak attack if the guards spawn. They should be there from the getgo.

    In terms of OP: There should be a limit to what you can put in a caravan. IE: Must have a specific weight, specific item quantity, traverse roads only, Max and Min number of players protecting caravan.
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  • KneczhevoKneczhevo Member
    edited September 2020
    @Shaladoor

    Those are some great ideas!

    I didn't put to much thought, in my post, because there is a vacuum of information.

    I see the point, with abusing caravans, in this thread. It's just that I foresee a cost, to create a caravan. So, I really didn't take that into consideration. Why waste money, trying to grief the system? Then, again, we are dealing with people. 😁

    I believe, Intrepid said; there is a spacing of caravans, meaning you can only control one caravan at a time. I may be wrong, but it would make sense.

    We have no idea if Mayor's Caravans will be automatically dispatched, or requiring players to activate and control them. I like the latter.

    Ya, I am really interested in the guard system too. Unfortunately, we don't have any information. But, I like these ideas. 😋

    Edit. Also, what if... You can "only" hire guards for Mayor Caravans? Personal Caravans, don't get guards, unless you have a node buff to do so (military)?
  • BricktopBricktop Member, Alpha Two
    edited September 2020
    I don't think there should be an indicator saying how much loot is in the caravan. If you want to attack a caravan and make yourself KoS to some people, there should be a risk involved in that. If people can tell how much loot is in a caravan they will only attack the big boys.
  • WarthWarth Member, Alpha Two
    Why do you assume any group of guards could take down a world boss?
    Guards are meant to be killable by like a group of players.

    Seems like (so far), its a completely baseless worry. If it becomes a problem, then I'm sure Intrepid will fix it in due time.
  • KneczhevoKneczhevo Member
    Oh ye, who have faith. 😁
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Hm... Can I pay the guards +25% over their original contract to kill the PCs and take the goods to an alternate node?
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don't imagine caravan guards would be scripted to care about anything other than players who attack the caravan? I'm guessing the guards will just stand in front of the boss until they die or the caravan is destroyed.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • Lil DiddleLil Diddle Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Warth wrote: »
    Why do you assume any group of guards could take down a world boss?
    Guards are meant to be killable by like a group of players.

    Seems like (so far), its a completely baseless worry. If it becomes a problem, then I'm sure Intrepid will fix it in due time.

    its more of a fun thought experiment to how far this can scale upwards, with enough caravans a boss could be killed, even if that number is like 100 caravans worth of guards...which would be hilarious to see honestly if you didnt lag out first
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  • Lil DiddleLil Diddle Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Kneczhevo wrote: »
    @Shaladoor

    Those are some great ideas!

    I didn't put to much thought, in my post, because there is a vacuum of information.

    I see the point, with abusing caravans, in this thread. It's just that I foresee a cost, to create a caravan. So, I really didn't take that into consideration. Why waste money, trying to grief the system? Then, again, we are dealing with people. 😁

    I believe, Intrepid said; there is a spacing of caravans, meaning you can only control one caravan at a time. I may be wrong, but it would make sense.

    We have no idea if Mayor's Caravans will be automatically dispatched, or requiring players to activate and control them. I like the latter.

    Ya, I am really interested in the guard system too. Unfortunately, we don't have any information. But, I like these ideas. 😋

    Edit. Also, what if... You can "only" hire guards for Mayor Caravans? Personal Caravans, don't get guards, unless you have a node buff to do so (military)?

    The cost would far outweigh any tangible benefit, but the idea of a roaming army of NPCs is too precious not to pursue for me lol
    F6lQFCc.png
  • Lil DiddleLil Diddle Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Exiled King wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    This is how I imagine caravan guards to be like:
    At the beginning, when you set up the caravan you first decide the size; 1 wagon, 2 wagons etc.
    After locking that in, you get to hire caravan guards with a max that is dependent of the amount of wagons that you currently have chosen.
    These caravan guards will only spawn, if something attacks the caravan wagons directly. They wont be able to aggro mobs, and in turn will only attack mobs if they attack the wagons. They wont care if the players get attacked.

    Caravans will most likely only be able to traverse roads etc.

    I can see an issue with latency or being able to cheese a sneak attack if the guards spawn. They should be there from the getgo.

    In terms of OP: There should be a limit to what you can put in a caravan. IE: Must have a specific weight, specific item quantity, traverse roads only, Max and Min number of players protecting caravan.

    Exactly, we dont know what min or max of player participants are and thats part of why im worried people will be able to cheese things somehow. what we really need is just more info on the caravan system.
    F6lQFCc.png
  • VarkunVarkun Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Do not forget that the caravan its self has to be constructed or purchased by you so there is a cost there. Also the caravan can only be started in certain locations towns etc, you will then have to march your little pvp zone off to where ever the boss is located assuming a caravan can even access the area. The guards will no doubt cost you gold to hire this along with the cost of your caravan.

    There is risk vs reward in everything and it is a good point that you bring up and it will no doubt have to be tested to see what the bugs/exploits are.
    3KAqRIf.png
    Never write a check with your mouth you can't cash with your ass!.
  • volshvolsh Member, Alpha Two
    edited September 2020
    Caravans will become high-targets and will only survive with large groups of people protecting them, they will be practically off-limits to a solo player or very small group of players but in one sense that's half of the excitement of the game i guess
  • crymoarcrymoar Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yes. I plan to abuse some caravans.
  • Lil DiddleLil Diddle Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    crymoar wrote: »
    Yes. I plan to abuse some caravans.

    id be offended if you weren't
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  • Lil DiddleLil Diddle Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    volsh wrote: »
    Caravans will become high-targets and will only survive with large groups of people protecting them, they will be practically off-limits to a solo player or very small group of players but in one sense that's half of the excitement of the game i guess

    That's another reason id like an answer to this question, how viable can I make a solo caravan or am I doomed never to complete one?
    F6lQFCc.png
  • volshvolsh Member, Alpha Two
    Lil Diddle wrote: »
    volsh wrote: »
    Caravans will become high-targets and will only survive with large groups of people protecting them, they will be practically off-limits to a solo player or very small group of players but in one sense that's half of the excitement of the game i guess

    That's another reason id like an answer to this question, how viable can I make a solo caravan or am I doomed never to complete one?

    I'm not saying they will be impossible just very difficult to protect but there's only one way to find out, don't worry Lil Diddle I'm sure there will be stacks of ppl trying their luck to get one through, me included :smile:
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