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Will New Players be Intimidated by the Systems?

Hi! I'm so stoked to play Ashes but I'm concerned that some people will be scared away by the complexity of the game. I'm worried about the game being too complicated for newer gamers or people who are first learning about Ashes of Creation. Some of my friends are extremely hesitant to be excited for Ashes because of the rabbit hole that is the many systems of this game. They think that some systems will be broken or not implemented on launch.
Is Intrepid doing anything to help people understand the game easier? I think it's important to have tool tips and tutorials on systems and mechanics that might be confusing or complex.

Lastly I want to express my gratitude for the monthly updates on the game. It makes me extremely happy seeing progress made on the (imo) best upcoming MMO. Thank you so much Intrepid for giving me much needed serotonin the past few months. <3

TL;DR
Do you think having so many complicated systems and ideas in your game will drive away new players?

Comments

  • I think like most mmo's, complicated systems are a good thing to have when introduced in moderation. This is something that drove me away from Black Desert Online with its UI having an abundance of information at once that wasn't slowly well explained. Meanwhile some games do this but only show these as you level up and give a basic starter tutorial introducing you to each element in the systems. I find FFXIV does this best by offering tooltip boxes as you discover the thing and allows you to close the box indefinitely if you've already played. This way when the player sees the thing in question, a tooltip box pops up with a couple of pages defining each characteristic of what you're looking at. Then actually upon going into the system in question, there's typically some brief explanation or context clue driven identifiers that explain how to do what you wanna do.

    I don't think there should be a system that explains too much at certain levels as a sandbox is meant to be a sandbox. The options should come up when the player is interested in or wanting to know more about something. Rather than saying "by level 30, you should be interested in militaristic nodes so we're going to give you this explanation regardless". I feel like tutorials such as that give the player a "don't tell me what to do" attitude and then it bites them in the butt later down the road when they finally go "what was that thing again?...". Though nothing is mentioned, I'm sure Ashes of Creation will find the route that best explains each system without overwhelming players.

    Personally I'm so used to mmo's that I'm wanting to know more about the complicated systems more than the basic stuff. A lot of basics become very muscle memory and 2nd nature early on, so the meat of the game to me is how the complexity is going to drive the world's development.
    Future mercenary guild owner in Ashes of Creation
    “The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
    ― G.K. Chesterton
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    This will come down to having a good tutorial.

    There are a lot of systems but I'm not sure if I would call them complicated as they are simple but build off each other.

    For a new player, all they really need to worry about is following the quests and leveling up their adventuring class which is the same in a lot of other games. As they level, the game has time to introduce them to the other systems.

    We also live in an age where there will be a bunch of video tutorials online.
  • In ancient times human beings had mighty powers....while much knowledge has been lost, we still have hints that their mighty powers of self sufficiency, curiosity, and slightly more toughness than an infant rabbit allowed them to face far more danger and complexity than Ashes has to offer. Dare we imagine that we too could explore the unknown, without soiling our pants in terror?
  • In addition to tutorials I think this comes down to a couple more factors.

    1.) At what point you can really engage fully in all systems. For instance all of the housing stuff, freeholds, crafting related to freeholds and citizenship benefits all come with a pre-requirement of owning a house/freehold. This will not be available to a player until they have progressed signficantly in their adventure or artisan class to be able to afford said housing. That way by the time they are introduced to the new systems of housing and citizenship they already have a strong grasp of their adventure class, their artisan class, or both, and then the new systems don't seem so overwhelming. The same sort of progression requirements can be put forth for things like thieves guild, religions, and other systems, whether it be a level requirement or something else that limits entry, that way players are not hit with everything at once from the start.

    2. How integrated/interdependent all the systems are. You don't want the systems to be completely isolated as to feel meaningless or disconnected, but you also don't want them to be so interdependent that a player feels they need to be engaging fully in all systems to keep progressing. From what I've seen so far, Intrepid is taking a good, balanced approach to this. pvp is integrated into the economy via caravans and the distinct value of goods in different regions, so there is dependency, but a player who is starting out can still farm materials and sell them locally if they aren't ready to engage in the caravan system yet. Then once they're more comfortable with their farming abilities and knowing what is easy and hard to obtain, as well as more competent in pvp, they can try to start maximizing their profits by sending their goods to other regions via caravans.
  • sunfrogsunfrog Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    Don't worry BunnyWabbit, people like me will make videos teaching you how to play the game. :)
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  • I am sure it will Intimidate a lot of new players and a good tutorial can help a lot but imo the most important thing is to have an open and accepting community that is eager to help newbies and teach them about the game mechanics and also provide resources like wikis, tutorial videos etc.
  • RavudhaRavudha Member
    edited October 2020
    That's interesting - I tend to look at it from the other side...

    MMOs might have complicated systems, but they're pretty relaxed when it comes to requiring a player to learn those systems:

    - You have months if not years to learn the systems; there's no requirement to learn them in a day...there's no exam.
    - There will be tons of online content made by people guiding new players through the systems and providing suggestions.
    - You tend to reap benefits fitting your skill level in a system in MMOs; it doesn't require you to become an expert in order to get some rewards.

    TL;DR - don't put pressure on yourself to become an expert; you don't need to be an expert to play and you've got lots of time and resources available to help you.
  • GrimmLibertyGrimmLiberty Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited October 2020
    OP, I, for one, HOPE the people who "can't figure it out" quit. TOTALLY SELFISH, but I just want people with intelligence and perseverance in my world.

    "Lowest common denominator" games turn to "pay to win" in a heart beat.
    It's just history.
  • VyrakaVyraka Member, Alpha One
    I'd expect an initial tutorial depending on the system. This is slightly different but also along the same vein - but the UI having decent mouseovers over icons that give you an idea what a button is used for. It doesn't have to be an essay, but at a minimum what the icon defines. Right now I'm playing a game which is in early access that has no mouse overs, and guessing what the icons mean is a headache.
    Axiom-Guild-Signature-Vyraka.png
  • uncounted wrote: »
    I am sure it will Intimidate a lot of new players and a good tutorial can help a lot but imo the most important thing is to have an open and accepting community that is eager to help newbies and teach them about the game mechanics and also provide resources like wikis, tutorial videos etc.
    OP, I, for one, HOPE the people who "can't figure it out" quit. TOTALLY SELFISH, but I just want people with intelligence and perseverance in my world.

    "Lowest common denominator" games turn to "pay to win" in a heart beat.
    It's just history.

    There are 2 types of people lol
  • Irohnic wrote: »
    uncounted wrote: »
    I am sure it will Intimidate a lot of new players and a good tutorial can help a lot but imo the most important thing is to have an open and accepting community that is eager to help newbies and teach them about the game mechanics and also provide resources like wikis, tutorial videos etc.
    OP, I, for one, HOPE the people who "can't figure it out" quit. TOTALLY SELFISH, but I just want people with intelligence and perseverance in my world.

    "Lowest common denominator" games turn to "pay to win" in a heart beat.
    It's just history.

    There are 2 types of people lol

    How ironic. 😜
  • Hi! I'm so stoked to play Ashes but I'm concerned that some people will be scared away by the complexity of the game. I'm worried about the game being too complicated for newer gamers or people who are first learning about Ashes of Creation. Some of my friends are extremely hesitant to be excited for Ashes because of the rabbit hole that is the many systems of this game. They think that some systems will be broken or not implemented on launch.
    Is Intrepid doing anything to help people understand the game easier? I think it's important to have tool tips and tutorials on systems and mechanics that might be confusing or complex.

    Lastly I want to express my gratitude for the monthly updates on the game. It makes me extremely happy seeing progress made on the (imo) best upcoming MMO. Thank you so much Intrepid for giving me much needed serotonin the past few months. <3

    TL;DR
    Do you think having so many complicated systems and ideas in your game will drive away new players?

    I think is a legitimate concern. I recently left WoW and am playing GW2 but honestly trying to learn the numerous systems, awards, ways to play, class iterations based on weapons, underwater fighting, new skills based on some specialization, then elite skills, then raids, fractals, agony, the need for multiple armor sets....I'm honestly just lost right now which doesnt feel good, at all.

    As the game progresses, I'm sure there maybe new systems and other iterations of existing systems that will be changed, for new players thus WILL become an issue.
  • The MMO player base is huge, and most of them enjoy complicated content if it's done properly. Casuals who have barely touched a proper MMO will first have to enjoy the genre and then the game.
    AoC
  • I get the concern but i would rather have a game be an unknown world to explore and learn about it as i play. I don't think a new player needs to know how everything works. They can learn the basics and if they find something they dont know they can ask someone in the game or google it as a last resort. That is my opinion.
    5000x1000px_Sathrago_Commission_RavenJuu.jpg
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • Zoomers should stay away from complex games when they want to learn and how intererest. There are so many people online who watch netflix while gaming. Pay attention or gtfo to minecraft or fortnite.
  • There's a good middle ground to be struck... newer players to MMOs (like myself) shouldn't have our hands holded, but I'd like a bit of info when starting out at least.

    A strong sense of community/social interaction helps more than a over-complicated tutorial, so if that's present then I think we'll be fine.
    due9c5V.png
  • As long as it's balanced and the game is playable. Don't want another ESO. Also the systems need to be properly tuned and give proper reward structures otherwise it all comes unraveled as people hit max level and get bored of killing each other.
  • Irohnic wrote: »
    There are 2 types of people lol

    There are actually 3 types of people. Those who can count, and those who can't.

    And no, I wouldn't think it will put off too many. I tend to like having new systems to learn, and getting my head around different ideas.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • VmanGmanVmanGman Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    There’s a difference between the systems being complex and them being complicated.

    I think complexity in a MMO is great because it allows for depth of engagement with the game and progression through the game.

    We don’t know enough about how exactly the systems will play out, but from what we’ve heard so far they seem complex without being overly complicated.
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