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Class Concept Theorizing #2: Spellsword

ValicValic Member
edited October 2020 in General Discussion
A1. The introduction
B2. So, what is it YOU think will exist in Ashes of Creation's archetypes?
C3. The Class and what defines it (From here on is the new stuff, everything prior is intro)
D4. The skills
E5. Inconclusion

A1. Introduction

Hello! Welcome to a series I hope to complete before the release of beta that essentially goes into concepts of the class system in Ashes of Creation. As we already know, we choose our base class, select a secondary subclass that defines the outcome. The secondary class will be able to augment the base class skills giving it somewhat of a unique take on what the original class is. As interesting as this concept alone is, I don't believe it is sufficient enough for all 64 classes to feel "different" or "unique". There is also talk of the possibility that secondary classes will just contain the same skills they have as a base class added onto your base class. A lot of this is theorizing and it's my hopes that I can make some ideas that "could" be what makes the class unique. That said, you don't have to agree with my logic or any of this, you can even theorize yourself what to expect! I won't have much math done for these and they will merely be "concept theorizing" based on a format I'd like to see in this game.

B2. So, what is it YOU think will exist in Ashes of Creation's archetypes?

As someone who has been playing mmo's for a good 12 years now, I've seen every wend of the "skill tree" and all formats to making classes in games feel different. In Archeage you had the ability to pick from 3 classes as you leveled to create your own class. This meant relying on choosing skills that provide effects that would benefit from one another to combo or create what you want in a class. Unfortunately, systems like this end up reducing what classes can actually be viable and really defeats the concept that I believe Ashes of Creation is going for in making all classes viable for certain situations. That said, I am all for the systems currently in place with augmenting abilities, but I also would like to see "unique" skills added onto the newly gained class. Perhaps up to 4 new skills could be learned but due to limitation of skills points, only 1-2 could potentially be maxed out. These abilities would not be pre-existing to any base class and would only exist out of definition of the new defined class once you have picked your secondary. Meaning, you will have every base class skills, augments off the secondary, and a couple of distinct skills unique to your newfound archetype. It is of my opinion that this would create a diverse set of classes and would accomplish three things.

-1. Separate the difference from a class who is the same as you in playstyle. Assuming 2 players are both a Spellsword but you both chose different augments and unique abilities... This would mean one Spellsword could play differently than the other, especially when you include what skills you choose to level in the base class.

-2. Diversity in combat both grand scale and small scale pvp/pve. I imagine the concept of sieges having full fledged wars with 500 vs 500 players, and seeing varieties of classes ranging between one another. Seeing the same type of fire circle aoe on the ground 200 times over seems like it would easily get boring. I like to believe in the concept that every individual on a battlefield has a unique kit to themselves that can help different situations and having an understanding of how that kit helps is what determines the difference in who would win. Just because you picked tank then went rogue to make Nightshield for example doesn't mean you're incapable of providing support in a group siege or helping a caravan supply defense. Just the same, because you're a fighter + rogue to be a shadowblade shouldn't limit you to thinking having single target dps makes you inept in group combat. Tjhis is what will make everyone's contribution different and unique in their own way, by having specific skills and augments that separate you from the next and may determine the outcome as a result.

-3. This will help balance and weight rock-paper-scissors format gameplay a bit better. This is a system I am very familiar with since the beginning, and I appreciate it when it's done correctly. That said, I'm not fond of outright knowing the outcome of a match being "oh, well he's rock and I'm paper so this is game" outright. I'm of the mindset that while this is something to consider, it shouldn't be the end all be all. Just as an example, a tank facing a mage knows the mage is likely going to CC and burst through their defense like nothing. However, if the tank has skills that contain exploits to a mage or defenses against a mage, perhaps this fight doesn't look so one-sided as one anticipated. By then, it would depend on the skill and strategy of the players and how they use their kits, rather than knowing Class A defeats Class B so long as both are optimizing as they should. If you wanted to see a similar system to this that worked, Aion back in 4.0 had something along this idea. A magic class vs a tank class wasn't always a winner, sometimes the tank class's skillset was actually a useful counter to mage classes and made fights all the more tight because of this. Just to reiterate, I don't want to remove the rock-paper-scissors format, but rather balance out the odds of the format so that they are not a simple guarantee just based off assumption of the class's at play. Paper may beat rock, but a rock made out of magma may yet pose a threat to the paper and may not be as easily won!

All of this should result in you still maintaining the basic concept of what you chose to play the game as first but then giving your class its own flavor via the secondary chosen. If you pick a tank first, you likely want to tank and keep being one... so choosing your 2nd class should not alter it into becoming something it isn't fundamentally. That is of course my opinion and anyone is welcome to theorize other options. The following will present 4 "ideas" for the unique skills the class could learn by extension.

C3. The Class and what defines it.

Today's class topic: "Spellsword"
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The Spellsword is always an interesting class in mmo's with a variety of sword play and magic both in hand. Spellswords are a base fighter with a mage secondary, leading for likely melee play with enhanced elemental buffs or melee play with ranged magic to support the melee and vice versa. I see this class being strong in solo play while still providing aoe's and maybe even some crowd control for group play given the right abilities. Being a fighter is usually relative to solo play but mages are widely known to provide high end burst attacks with consequence to cast times and also crowd controls like sleep or bind/root. To me this means a Spellsword may just have no cast times but less raw damage while affording them range mid combat. Perhaps skills to close gaps in melee combat to draw your foe closer or keep up damage even from when afar. What's especially fun is how many routes this class could go as a spellsword could also be one who enchants their weapon with different elements. We also know mages will have blink and portals as abilities, so not only will they dominant in elemental prowess, but perhaps even unique warping abilities too. I'm especially looking forward to the dark hole abilities with this class, as I can easily see this being an augment where the fighter drags enemies directly to where they stand and then deals a devastating blow to everything near them.

My theory is their skillset will involve a few aoe options and a few crowd control or "self" options that help in variety. This being a dps class, it should stand by providing mainly dps flavor to hold the "fighter" as a base.

D4. The Skills

-1. An elemental weapon enchant skill. Ranks for this could involve 1 being just the element, 2 involving extra abilities like dots, spread damage, slow, binds, etc to each element respectively, and 3 being the allowed use of a "burst" style skill that let's you sacrifice your buff for a powerful attack related to the element you're using.

I'm not sure how this one could only be one skill or if maybe the spellsword's whole kit would derive of 4 different elements, or at least 3, lightning, ice, and fire. I foresee some interesting concepts with this though, maybe as a stance changing skill that allows you to change elements mid combo. I see this affecting how abilities perform, making certain attacks cause slow with ice, dot damage with fire, and spread aoe damage with lightning, all of course while providing its own elemental damage as a booster. I also see potential as this being something you can use then when pressed again, uses the remaining duration of the skill and combines it with the attack power of another skill into dealing a burst-style ranged attack. Something akin to imbuing your sword with lightning, then hitting the skill again let's you thrust your sword out and make a cone of lightning aoe that also ricochets between targets 3 times. While it gives up the buff it allows you a bit of extra damage, maybe having multiples of this skill and finding a way to rotate between them for the most optimal situations when dealing with crowds of single targets. Or maybe this skill could also define a Fighter specific skill to "burst" with it, thus ending the buff but dealing an element of damage and a status ailment with it, something allowing you to decide if you need damage, aoe, or CC on the usage of that particular skill. I wouldn't want this to encompass the entirety of the class but at the same time I wouldn't mind if it did, so long as the Spellsword could still have a form of "range" available somewhere in its kit thanks to this skill. Let's be honest here too, who doesn't want to have a flaming axe or a lightning lance in battle?


-2. "Gate of Lightning", A circular/field aoe lightning cage. Imagine a skill that when targeting an opponent, places an electrical field around the target that if they cross the lightning tethers of it, binds and deals damage to that player. Rank 1 being a small version that just adds a dot on stepping on a tether, rank 2 adding bind and being slightly larger, rank 3 adding tethers in the middle that zap from edge to edge and corner to corner, enclosing the space even further.

I'm still a little iffy on this idea but the main concept would be something that allows the spellsword to prevent kiting to close the gap. A ranger running away could get this on them and if they dare move, the penalty would be damage and a bind, or suffer fighting inside the ring with the spellsword. I could also see this skill just being an aoe placed around the Spellsword themselves so that you guarantee no one's leaving that fight. Something to encourage a "no, you're fight is with ME" playstyle and while you likely could escape with potions or cleanses to remove the bind and get away with minimal damage, it's still a deterrent to running away right off the bat but still offers the value of your opponent "trying" to escape. In a case of fight or flight, flight may result in their doom or a VERY hasty retreat. At rank 3 I could see the skill looking more like a hexagon with lightning tethers cross at each point, minimalizing how much room they would have to move or guaranteeing they are hit by the skill at least once. I debate the idea of the skill hitting per tether crossed or if that'd be possibly but in an aoe instance, this would be very viable.

-3. Earthshatter, an earth based attack where the Spellsword slams into the ground and creates shockwaves that go from the outermost space to the innermost. Each rank would increase in damage dealt and size of the aoe around the Spellsword.

Yet another "aoe" skill that would help close gaps between players. This would definitely be more useful in siege combat and could tie in well with a dark hole augmented aoe. Easily something that could be used both solo and in groups but would be more welcome in group content as it brings enemies into one centralized area to the Spellsword. Combining this skill with the above could make for devastating combinations with other aoe damage dealers in a singular area where they may be trapped. Healers and mages both would be keen to quickly warp trapped players away before a continued aoe barrage after this earthquake based skill was used.

-4.Bladeflare, a lunge/dash-like ability where your sword is engulfed in fire and propels you forward to a target, dealing a devastating high damage attack that adds a dot. Rank 1 is the attack and dot itself, rank 2 leaves a fire trail from where you dashed from temporarily that deals damage on touch and adds dot damage, rank 3 sends a small line of fire waves out after the dash in front of you, dealing the same effect as the trail of fire from behind you.

I didn't want something super close to what a tank's shield bash is that aoe's and does too similar of an idea and I figure the concepts so far, there's already enough aoe potential between enchanting weapons providing varieties of abilities/aoe potential, the 2 aoe spells already listed, and everything the Fighter class already provides in itself. With this skill I see it being mainly for self solo use but still offering a tad bit of group/aoe control. I can see this skill at max level helping cut off lines of players leaving trails of fire and sending out a small fan of lines so it gets treated like a "shotgun" effect. Meaning whoever you dash to will be dealt high fire damage, a dot, and all the ticks of each wave that was split out unless the target is running away fully or aware of this skill... I can't see them avoiding too much of the wave effect at rank 3. This also would act as a gap closer, more true of one than a ranged variant, and would still play up to the melee aspect of the class. This wouldn't include your elemental enchant and would be of its own skill instead, so probably wouldn't be able to ice imbue your weapon, then use this expecting to deal ice and fire damage, instead it would temporarily override your buff to deal the damage. Or this could be a skill that takes up "change" when using the elemental weapon enchant skill and maybe it does ice or lightning or earth instead of fire. Really depends what route this class would go. I see this being fun in tandem with other gap closers and just leaving all these trails across the ground in combat, especially would be a nice "finishing blow" for someone running away.

-5. Icicle barrage. A simple cast that shoots out several icicles at a target dealing ice damage at rank 1. Rank 2 would bind in place or slow with slightly more damage, rank 3 would cause attack speed slow and more damage.

A more simple utility skill away from the aoe variety. Something to send out while chasing someone or needing to stop them in their tracks. Multiple ice spears just being thrown and still being useful for melee combat at rank 2 and 3 causing movement inhibits and attack speed lowering. I don't think I should include cast speed lowering or this class might be a little too good against casters as well and would be used in a different light than meant to. This would be an ideal ability against rangers or other melee classes at rank 3.

E5. Inconclusion


Spellswords would be a powerful fighter with magic abilities to aid in their melee combat or helping end the fight just a tad sooner. They wouldn't have as much defensively but would have a lot more towards aggressive gameplay. I could see their weakness being true mages, healers, or anything that doesn't mind already being up close and personal without much to lose. Meanwhile being savage as a solo class against most enemies being able to handle its own ground and then some. In group play I could see this class making its own path in who it decides to pick a fight with by aoe'ing near the frontlines of crowds and drawing in opponents to face off one by one. In a group, this is easily someone who would be terrifying at first sight with multiple gap closing abilities, range, and powerful strikes. This paired with any support would prove a formidable damage dealer. It would hold good control over areas and pacing of how players move/kite/attack but not necessarily be the 100% best choice in "nuking" like true mage might or assassin could be. This class would be for those who enjoy melee combat as a base but need a little range control to really allow them the opportunities to get into melee fights or finish off what they started.


I HAD, so much fun writing this one up. My biggest issue is I have such better ideas for skills now that belong to related classes to fighter... I cannot wait to do the next one now. I even wrote 5 skills instead of 4 because the weapon enchanting could be 4 of its own already or it could just be one skill. Anywho, these are just a few ideas I threw out there, I'm genuinely interested to know what everyone else has in terms of ideas for skills this class could have. The idea of a Spellsword can go so many different routes in games and I really like all of them, to the point where I have to take a deep breathe and go "... Maybe I should save this idea for another class". Do you guys think Spellswords should be something more specific? Skill ideas or adjustments? What class would you like to theorize on next? I've got 62 more to go!
Future mercenary guild owner in Ashes of Creation
“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
― G.K. Chesterton

Comments

  • Medrash1Medrash1 Member
    edited October 2020
    *As interesting as this concept alone is, I don't believe it is sufficient enough for all 64 classes to feel "different" or "unique". *

    You are absolutelly right, i spoke about this in my discussions too and it seems we follow almost the same ideas and way of thinking. Anyway i will reply to you tomorrow with a better comment ^^ it's a lot and right now it's 01:22 to me.
  • Medrash wrote: »
    *As interesting as this concept alone is, I don't believe it is sufficient enough for all 64 classes to feel "different" or "unique". *

    You are absolutelly right, i spoke about this in my discussions too and it seems we follow almost the same ideas and way of thinking. Anyway i will reply to you tomorrow with a better comment ^^ it's a lot and right not it's 01:22 to me.

    Oh I feel that and I'm glad someone else shares the same opinion :hushed:! I can't wait, I'd love to get ideas about these classes. I already did Nightshield previously too, thinking about doing Warden or Duelist next.
    Future mercenary guild owner in Ashes of Creation
    “The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
    ― G.K. Chesterton
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