The problem of gear becoming obsolete every next expansion

rikardp98

@George Black a game that has good horizontal progression in my opinion is ESO. ESO have many problems but one thing they do right is how they handle new gear with each new expansion. The gear in ESO focus on set bonuses, and because of these set bonuses one can uses many different builds. Since gear focus on set bonuses they do not have the need to Increase the lvl cap to make people come back to the game, all they have to do is add interesting gear that enables players to test different builds and customize their play style to see what they like the most.
Other good thing with set bonuses is that they can make targeted gear towards curtain classes/specc to indirectly buff them, instead of changing how the whole class work (like they do in wow).
ESO also have something call world and guild abilities that every class can learn if they do a curtain quest line. And with some new expansions they add new guilds and world abilities that players can go after and customize there build even further.

I really wish AoC do not go down the rabbit hole that is, increase lvl cap with each new expansion, because in my opinion it's a lazy solution to a problem that can be solved with a little creativity. Instead I hope they focus on story driven expansions with new and interesting dungeons and zones that can give us gear with interesting set bonuses that will keep us busy playing the game.

George_Black

Honestly ESO has done nothing right according to the nature of mmorpgs. I only stuck with it for 5 years because I liked my stamDK and I was stuborn at PvP with dw. Having its identity erased I see no reason to keep playing that single player game. I faced 0 challenges all this time. Anything I needed was achieved easily within a day.

As for its gear sets. Worst in any game.

rikardp98

George Black wrote: »

Honestly ESO has done nothing right according to the nature of mmorpgs. I only stuck with it for 5 years because I liked my stamDK and I was stuborn at PvP with dw. Having its identity erased I see no reason to keep playing that single player game. I faced 0 challenges all this time. Anything I needed was achieved easily within a day.

As for its gear sets. Worst in any game.

I know that ESO has many problems and over time have become heavily game store based and "beginner friendly".

But as for it's gear sets, why do you think it's the worst in any game?

George_Black

rikardp98 wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

Honestly ESO has done nothing right according to the nature of mmorpgs. I only stuck with it for 5 years because I liked my stamDK and I was stuborn at PvP with dw. Having its identity erased I see no reason to keep playing that single player game. I faced 0 challenges all this time. Anything I needed was achieved easily within a day.

As for its gear sets. Worst in any game.

I know that ESO has many problems and over time have become heavily game store based and "beginner friendly".

But as for it's gear sets, why do you think it's the worst in any game?

Because gear does the combat instead of abilities.
Because it is extremely easy to obtain, I cant stress that enough. (Drop, traders).
In the last 2 years I spend maybe 10h farming gear for my PvP stamDK?
10h farming for gear in the last 2 years.
Because there is no beauty or pride on wearing x or y set, it's all motifs and fashion.
Because while progressing from Lv1 to V14 (cp160 today) I never felt the need to spend time putting together a set, I was just picking up pieces from quest or overland EASY encounters.

If you had play any game similar to L2 or diablo or any real mmorpg you'd see the difference of depth that gear adds to those games.


Honestly in ESO I dont care what gear I am wearing. It's all covered under my outfit. Heavy? Medium? Who knows. Axes maces? They look like swords on my character.

That's not how gear should be treated in mmos.
When was the last time you saw in ESO a player celebrating for owning a piece of gear set? Never.

George_Black

In L2 I was celebrating my gear at 10lv, 20 40 52 61 76 80lv Every time it took effort.
Every time it gave me the competitiveness boost for the next 2 months of gameplay.
Can you say the same for eso?

rikardp98

George Black wrote: »

In L2 I was celebrating my gear at 10lv, 20 40 52 61 76 80lv Every time it took effort.
Every time it gave me the competitiveness boost for the next 2 months of gameplay.
Can you say the same for eso?

There are gear grinding in ESO if that is what you mean xD And you also have different stages of gear, both in lvl and in cp. Maybe I'm miss understanding what you are trying to say?

HeronMarkedSword

I think the curve is hyperbolic starting at zero on the x = 1, y = 0 point, then as the graph extends along the x-scale towards, say, 100, the y scale increases to infinity, with x being the total number of items and y being the total number of Levels. As the Levels of all the players on the server increases, the number of useless items eventually cap off.

So in layman's terms, the total number of items, and therefore the total number of "obsolete" items is dependent upon the total number of character levels. If everyone is level 70, there would be no need for a crude longsword, or it's brethren. If early on there is a plethora of different levels, the number of obsolete items is alot lower, because you have a percentage of levels 1-10 characters.

rikardp98

George Black wrote: »

rikardp98 wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

Honestly ESO has done nothing right according to the nature of mmorpgs. I only stuck with it for 5 years because I liked my stamDK and I was stuborn at PvP with dw. Having its identity erased I see no reason to keep playing that single player game. I faced 0 challenges all this time. Anything I needed was achieved easily within a day.

As for its gear sets. Worst in any game.

I know that ESO has many problems and over time have become heavily game store based and "beginner friendly".

But as for it's gear sets, why do you think it's the worst in any game?

Because gear does the combat instead of abilities.
Because it is extremely easy to obtain, I cant stress that enough. (Drop, traders).
In the last 2 years I spend maybe 10h farming gear for my PvP stamDK?
10h farming for gear in the last 2 years.
Because there is no beauty or pride on wearing x or y set, it's all motifs and fashion.
Because while progressing from Lv1 to V14 (cp160 today) I never felt the need to spend time putting together a set, I was just picking up pieces from quest or overland EASY encounters.

If you had play any game similar to L2 or diablo or any real mmorpg you'd see the difference of depth that gear adds to those games.


Honestly in ESO I dont care what gear I am wearing. It's all covered under my outfit. Heavy? Medium? Who knows. Axes maces? They look like swords on my character.

That's not how gear should be treated in mmos.
When was the last time you saw in ESO a player celebrating for owning a piece of gear set? Never.

I agree with the statement that outfit or transmog is not good for a game. I also agree with you that how one obtain gear in ESO is pretty easy, like the personal loot system (with trading) and the easy dungeons that you do to obtain them. But then you have new dungeons with really interesting mechanics and vet dungeons, and you also have trials where you can obtain some really interesting gear sets. You have pvp currency that you can use to by gear (or gear boxes that have a chance to drop the right gear, not the best), open world bosses, quests and chests that drop gear.

If you think that gear makes a player good in ESO you haven't played it. Gear is a part of the equation but how you pull of your rotation is everything! In my opinion gear is there to compliment a curtain play style and in some cases make an otherwise bad specc good.

And you say ESO is a single player game, but then you refer diablo as a mmorpg, I do not think I can trust a person like you 😆

So I haven't played L2, can you explain how that game handles gear?

George_Black

Believe/trust what you want.
I have been playing eso since before IC came out.
The only challenge of the game was the original vMA back then without transmute, (solo, lol for mmo) with the second dlc.
There are no good players on ESO PvP.
It's all zergballs and cheese builds.
100% gear doing the combat for the player while they switch between backbar turtle-up and frontbar dizzy/execution.

Then it was a series of weird combat dev decisions, most notably the increase of DoTs power last year ("we the devs, felt they were weak") and then the nerf 3 months later beyond their previous state (we the devs, felt that DoTs became strong, so we will make them weaker than they ever were). But here are some more gear sets that deal 19k dmg.

I wont explain how L2 handless gear, this topic was about expansions and gear, and I just disagree with "new expansions make gear obsolete. I want iron sword to be relevant while I run dungeons for titles".

I would suggest you follow up with this games development updates, the sources of inspiration for AoC systems and getting familiar with a world very very very different to ESO.

If you think ESO did well with gear (a complete joke from craftets POW as well), I think you are going to either love the depth this game will offer (based on its inspirations) or hate it.

And that's my last bit for this topic.

rikardp98

George Black wrote: »

Believe/trust what you want.
I have been playing eso since before IC came out.
The only challenge of the game was the original vMA back then without transmute, (solo, lol for mmo) with the second dlc.
There are no good players on ESO PvP.
It's all zergballs and cheese builds.
100% gear doing the combat for the player while they switch between backbar turtle-up and frontbar dizzy/execution.

Then it was a series of weird combat dev decisions, most notably the increase of DoTs power last year ("we the devs, felt they were weak") and then the nerf 3 months later beyond their previous state (we the devs, felt that DoTs became strong, so we will make them weaker than they ever were). But here are some more gear sets that deal 19k dmg.

I wont explain how L2 handless gear, this topic was about expansions and gear, and I just disagree with "new expansions make gear obsolete. I want iron sword to be relevant while I run dungeons for titles".

I would suggest you follow up with this games development updates, the sources of inspiration for AoC systems and getting familiar with a world very very very different to ESO.

If you think ESO did well with gear (a complete joke from craftets POW as well), I think you are going to either love the depth this game will offer (based on its inspirations) or hate it.

And that's my last bit for this topic.

Good players or not, the game is all about the rotation and you choose your gear setup to compliment your rotation. I also think that there is complicated and difficult vet dungeons and trials. And there are also some very good and viable crafting set in ESO, so your statement that gearing in ESO is a joke is completely wrong.

When I say that with new expansion old gear will be obsolete WoW classic is the perfect example. From the start you had raids like molten core with your tier 1 set and other random gear pieces, the bwl comes out, almost all the gear you have grinded will be replaced, that's fine because there are still interesting gear in mc that one will need. The AQ40 comes out, all new gear you need to grind out, mc and bwl ain't that important anymore except a few gear pieces, then naxx and aq40 ain't that important anymore except a few gear pieces. Then tbc comes out, all the gear from vanilla is so obsolete that you will never set foot in mc, bwl, aq40 or naxx again. The only reason to go back is to go back is to get gear for transmogs.

Why did all the gear in vanilla become obsolete? Because they increased the lvl cap, making 60 gear far from top tier even though some pieces from vanilla are interesting and unique.

Right now in bfa (shadow lands) there are many, many raids and dungeons in the game, but only 1 or maybe 2 are relevant.

I gave ESO as an example that handled gear pretty good in my opinion (interesting gear sets that have potential to customize your builds) to show that there are other ways to make people stay and continue to play the game. I never said ESO is a perfect game, in fact I just started to play it again after a 18 months break.