Learn from WOW beginner "tutorial"

MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
In the latest World of Warcraft patch, Blizzard reworked the new player experience. And in my opinion, there is a lot to learn from how they do it.

All the menues, systems, abilities and mechanics are gradally, and cleary thaught to you. At the start, you simply don't see everything. But, as you progress, more and more systems etc are presented to you.

In my opinion this is very good to make the game more beginner friendly. They also did it in a fun way.
For example, I played WoW all my life, and this was a fun experience for me.

Comments

  • SholerSholer Member
    edited October 17
    I do not agree. That "Ogre island" just feel like a waste of time.
  • maouwmaouw Member
    I fully agree - Black Desert's UI was overwhelming when you first start.
    but can I add to this?

    I think the best way to "unveil" new UI is by showing that they are locked and specific quests unlock them.

    This is better than a tutorial that holds your hand and regurgitates a user manual - because as a player unlocking new features, I am invested in finding out what each feature that I earned lets me do.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds
    This thread is completely personal preference.

    I personally couldn't even force myself to finish the starting area. Bread crumbs everywhere hand holding trash. The whole experience was not good at all. If I was a new player to any game and had to go through that I would uninstall faster then when I uninstalled GW2(I at least gave this dumpster fire a week). Makes me glad I didn't pre-order the expansion.
    Personally the starting area in the latest expansion is everything that has gone wrong with the genre rolled into one giant bugger being flicked at the players. This is an opportunity to learn what not to do.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • Never played wow but as maouw mentioned BDO and some other games overwhelm the new player.

    I agree with the slow reveal of functions. It should go without saying for any game that plans to delay players from reaching lv cap (was said around 6 months with steady gameplay).

    L2 ( as you know by now, my go to comparisson for the AoC vision) being a slow game revealed stages of combat, crafting and other farming methods at a very good pace.
  • I really hate it when in the first hour of gameplay I have 10 quests alrdy on my log, sending me here and there to learn how to X, Y, Z.

    Let me be a newbie for a bit, kill some wolves, explore the first area, die 5 times and one by one show me the means to progress.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder
    edited October 17
    WoW's tutorial is very good, but very much targeted at younger players who are playing an mmorpg for the first time. This of course means that for mmo veterans or even older players who pick things up very quickly, it can be very tedious and boring.

    What I don't understand is that in 2020, so many games still insist on having a tutorial that is exactly the same for everyone, rather than tailoring it to the individual user. As a simple example, I, an mmorpg veteran, don't need to be told that W,A,S and D control my character. Give me the option the tell the game that I've played an mmorpg before and save me the hassle of going through basic controls.
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  • maybe resume the tutorial and give acces to look the controls and what they do like a short introduction for veteran mmo players, but we have to be inclusive bc honestly i dont want to let outside of the game the people that is playing for first time an mmo like old people for example
  • I played WoW on and off since shortly after it's release. It has only gotten more simple as time has passed. Who the heck is the new beginner experience for? People who can't tie their own shoes?
  • The new world of warcraft zone Exiles reach is a beautifully crafted well designed theme park that will teach a player the most basic of actions such as: Move in a direction! Turn your camera! Talk to an npc! That there is a quest Icon! Attack this with your one ability!
    They have a decent quest chain that leads you around the island and teaches you how to fight npcs, loot, turn in quests, sell your items/purchase items, and then ultimately leads to a 2 boss dungeon that runs with 3 dps a healer and an npc tank. There are other npcs that heal and deal damage as well.

    They don't just hold your hand on this island they cut it off and drag it around just to make sure you can make it to the end.

    So if we want to take ideas from them, my suggestion would be to do almost all of what they did, but make the mobs actually threaten the life of the player as well as allowing them to fail. Failure is histories greatest teacher. Maybe if it had that, I would have enjoyed that tutorial island.
  • Sov54Sov54 Member
    I really hate it when in the first hour of gameplay I have 10 quests alrdy on my log, sending me here and there to learn how to X, Y, Z.

    Let me be a newbie for a bit, kill some wolves, explore the first area, die 5 times and one by one show me the means to progress.

    This.

    Asking for mandatory handholding chores is the opposite of the sandbox mentality.

    If you can't figure out a system, ask someone!

  • I don't mind a bit of explaining on the first run through of a game, but please, let us skip it on subsequent characters. Having tooltips popping up on how to move, how to talk to someone, how to open your bags or quest log gets really annoying on the 4th or 5th character.
  • A lot of people in this thread seem to be masochist and want the game to be a sadist right out of the gate.

    Personally, I like the idea of an instanced area that's just for new players to learn the ropes and have their hand held, but once complete players are able to skip it just like you can w/ the new Exile's Reach in WoW.

    We've already seen plenty of post on this forum and on the subreddit where AoC caught the eye of people who've never played an MMO (or any PC game) before and there's nothing wrong w/ easing them into it and letting the difficulty get cranked up after they leave the safe area.
  • WarthWarth Member
    Periodic exposure to new features is known to improve the new player experience. It greatly increases the chance of new players playing for longer than a month. Even if it just helps them get settled into a new world for the first 5 mins.

    the gradual exposure to new game systems /accessibility was one of the primary reasons why games like WoW, HS and LoL became as popular in the first place.

    Implementing a good onboarding experience doesn't take away from anybody but helps the game grow.

    I can't take anybody that's against it seriously.
  • I loved the old-school wow beginner zones.
    No hand holding with all mobs being yellow fodder as they did later on.
    Defias thieves stealing berries, spiders attacking anything that enters their cave, demonic minions sheeming in their hideout etc. That was the sh*t in my opinion. It gave you some kind of responsibility, it taught you to step lightly and not to pull too many mobs. The whole experience showed you how to survive in the regular zones.
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  • maouwmaouw Member
    Consider how gen Z grew up on Minecraft.
    That game explains nothing.
    No "Basic Controls"/"How to open chests"/"How to trade with an NPC"
    No crafting guide, no quest pointers .

    The game literally goes: if you don't do stuff right now, it will be night time and you will die.
    And they loved it.

    However, AoC is considerably more complex than Minecraft - and I think there's an element of fear in entering an established community on an MMO that you don't get from singleplayer games. So something that provides a bit of assurance would be helpful imo.

    Plus - surely you guys remember the first characters you created in an MMO? I thought it would be cool to have some Strength on my mage. LMAO. It's probably healthy to let people make mistakes early on.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • mrwafflesmrwaffles Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    maouw wrote: »
    Consider how gen Z grew up on Minecraft.

    Plus - surely you guys remember the first characters you created in an MMO? I thought it would be cool to have some Strength on my mage. LMAO. It's probably healthy to let people make mistakes early on.

    Thats a good point. I was originally going to be one of the people that said that I can't stand the UI hand holding process but it really does have it's place. GW2 had a good system where you can simply just opt out of it from the very beginning. Imagine it like skyrim where you could just check "skip" and not wake up in a wagon but instead in the dungeons about to fight a troll.

    What I'm saying is never played WoW but sounds good for new players and maybe for the users that want to forgo it they can add a little checkbox at the character creation that says "skip tutorial" ?
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  • WarthWarth Member
    Damokles wrote: »
    I loved the old-school wow beginner zones.
    No hand holding with all mobs being yellow fodder as they did later on.
    Defias thieves stealing berries, spiders attacking anything that enters their cave, demonic minions sheeming in their hideout etc. That was the sh*t in my opinion. It gave you some kind of responsibility, it taught you to step lightly and not to pull too many mobs. The whole experience showed you how to survive in the regular zones.

    In terms of monster, this might be true. Leashing multiple monsters by accident equalled certain death, which is something I'd support for Ashes as well.

    However, at any given time, WoW gave you the next step on your path progression path. It was a very linear experience, which I wouldn't like to see in Ashes, as it simply isn't a game where its appropriate for.

    Then there were game systems, which were explained to you step by step for the first couple of levels. Which imo is a necessity to not overwhelm new players. In terms of interface, new players don't need a mount tab, until they receive their first mount as an example. Keep it clean and make people unlock it step by step, that's the easiest way of giving new players an enjoyable first few hours of the game, which might very well dictate how long they play. (Also add a "skip tutorial" button, that instantly activates all the features and deactivates tooltips)
  • OrcLuckOrcLuck Member, Braver of Worlds
    some things can be onboarded better then others.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited October 19
    I'm good with the idea of a detailed tutorial, I often like when I am playing a game for the first time and I am walked through it when I start out. Maybe I don't need help figuring out how to walk around, but I may not know how the UI brings up the map, or how to get into every submenu of the character sheet.

    As long as this is optional. I don't want to be forced to endure it with every alt. And If I have experience with the game prior to release through testing (and trust me, I WILL) I don't even want to go through it with my first "real" character either.
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  • You don't really need a tutorial that is that expansive. Vanilla WoW just had popups that told you stuff which you could disable from the get go. It doesn't really need to be more complicated than that.

    Also I have played the current retail WoW tutorial...and let me tell you it's not a good situation. The older way all of it was done was superior, had more meaning and let you ACTUALLY learn about the game and things that were going on. Hell I would argue that Cataclysm had the best of both of those situations.

    The majority of us aren't drooling babies that aren't going to look things up or not ask, at least in the actual Ashes community. Asking for help is literally a basis of the feel of a community, and honestly the hand holding you want in this is indicative of a game that has lived past it's lifetime and just tried to purposely over complicate it's systems to the point that it needs it. Ashes thankfully, isn't that game.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member
    I preferred Vanilla wow's starting experience compared to say BDO's. The new wow island has a LOT of hand-holding, but for someone brand new to the game it does have the player learn (as opposed to explain) the basics.

    Here are a few suggestions I thought would help make the initial experience smooth and/or desirable:
    • Have a starting zone. I think most players would appreciate a space where they can learn how AoC works, UI elements, basic quest functions, iconography, nomenclature, etc. in a place where mistakes don’t have consequences (especially in a game that is built around actions having consequences). These can be as involved as you want them to be.
    • Consider a tip overlay. I’ve used a number of tools that can be toggled to overlay a UX with helpful snippets on what an element is, or how to do a specific task. These can also provide feedback to the dev team on what players are actually doing, so they can refine the UX with data not just anecdotes. Pendo is a good example.
    • Invest in your writers. Having excellent, concise descriptions for spells/abilities, tool tips, descriptions, etc. seems like table stakes, but we have all played games where it’s damn near impossible to understand how abilities work, let alone interact. This is a must have.
    • Allow players to skip a starting area
    • Allow players to turn off any/all tips EASILY
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  • Definitely seeing a lot of great comments on both sides here for what level of "hand-holding" folks might prefer - keep those suggestions coming!

    Personally I like to see a more minimal/simple UI that's intuitive to pick up without too much extra explanation; that and definitely having some "options" in place for the amount of introduction you would like to the world.
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  • AmmaAmma Member
    Personally I like to see a more minimal/simple UI that's intuitive to pick up without too much extra explanation; that and definitely having some "options" in place for the amount of introduction you would like to the world.

    I understand that most of the players like minimal/simple UI, but please think of the players too, who are the opposite. When i think about the fact that addons wont be a thing in AoC, than i wonder how much tools do i really get to be as effective as i want to be and as i think my character can be. I dont mean things like damage-meter or like a questfinder. I mean something like active usable UI for a healer, who needs far more information about the life, buffs and debuffs in the raid than a dd needs.
    A DD has to concentrate on him and the enemy to say it a little bit in a simplified way, but the healer has to see far more to be really effective, and if you are in a 40 people raid, and all you see are 40 healthbars running wild around in the room because of different aoe-attacks, then the healing will be total chaos.
    Dont get me wrong, i am not only concentrating on healers. That was just an example.

    As a dd my monitor/UI was full with different Addons (in WoW). Why? Because i wanted the information about what was happening with the raid, especially when you are the raid-leader. All the Addons were a nightmare for other guild-members to see, and they wondered how i can play if i apparently dont see anything. The point is that some people (like me) use these Addons (especcially if you can make them partly transparent) as a "head-up-display" on which your eyes only concentrate for a second if you need a quick overview over the raid-party.

    All i want to say is that not all people want a simple UI. Some are more happy with much more information on their screen, and they dont care about less sight on the enemy, because they feel that they still see enough. So i really hope that in the final game the ui has not only movable parts, and thats it, but that we get the option in the menues to activate far more information-sources if we want to.

    I think as long as this would be a possibilty to activate or deactivate, then everyone would be happy to choose what they want and need.
  • PhyleXPhyleX Member
    edited October 22
    Definitely seeing a lot of great comments on both sides here for what level of "hand-holding" folks might prefer - keep those suggestions coming!

    Personally I like to see a more minimal/simple UI that's intuitive to pick up without too much extra explanation; that and definitely having some "options" in place for the amount of introduction you would like to the world.

    If you want a tutorial implemented please give us the option to skip it. Many of us don´t need a introduction to MMO´s.

    A little idea from me:

    For completely new players you can design the tutorial like a dream during or passage from one of the starting portals. There you can "dream" your humble beginnings in the best MMORPG. So you have completely creative freedom because its dream ;).
    With that in mind you can make the world we all play in "tutorial free". If something like this is needed.

    If you don´t need a tutorial as a player, you can dream "faster" and you jump strait into action :D.
  • Hmm...

    I also considered WoW's tutorial decent, even good. But I found it lacking in the crafting part and even in the explainy-part.

    EQ2 had the Starter Zones that were exclusively for new characters and basically had all the characters lined up that beat you down with walls of text explaining the basics. I was not too fond of that to be honest and I am one of the guys who actually reads the books he finds in the world.

    Same with crafting...you could easily equip yourself with your own (useless) noob gear in EQ2 to practice crafting. That was decently explained and you could not do much wrong.

    GW2 actually nails it quite well when it comes to the "flow" and the feeling that you are at the start of your adventure, only to screw up in the explainy-part..

    Maybe a mix of those things would be nice, maybe a walled off gig with different "stations" like in some tactical FPSs (for mortar-training, queue up here). That way, people can decide if they want to learn how to move or just get an update on how to work spells and craft. Of course, managing to pull that off AND keep it immersive in the storyline is a bitch. Then again, this can be instanced like the personal stories in GW2.
  • StrangeapeStrangeape Member
    edited October 22
    All that is needed is a way for veteran mmo players to be able to skip the very basic tutorial.

    From a marketing/support perspective, there are still a lot of people getting inot pc gaming from console for instance, or older gents/ladies getting into gaming who don't have a clue as to controls that are instinctual for us longtime players.

    But i agree, i don't feel like "learning" how to walk and jump and crouch unless they've dramatically changed the usual contro layout

    edit: Maybe explore the possibility of a stand-alone zone, separate from the main server for the more complex components, like crafting? like a tutorial island or whatever for those who'd like that?
  • maouwmaouw Member
    PhyleX wrote: »
    Definitely seeing a lot of great comments on both sides here for what level of "hand-holding" folks might prefer - keep those suggestions coming!

    Personally I like to see a more minimal/simple UI that's intuitive to pick up without too much extra explanation; that and definitely having some "options" in place for the amount of introduction you would like to the world.

    If you want a tutorial implemented please give us the option to skip it. Many of us don´t need a introduction to MMO´s.

    A little idea from me:

    For completely new players you can design the tutorial like a dream during or passage from one of the starting portals. There you can "dream" your humble beginnings in the best MMORPG. So you have completely creative freedom because its dream ;).
    With that in mind you can make the world we all play in "tutorial free". If something like this is needed.

    If you don´t need a tutorial as a player, you can dream "faster" and you jump strait into action :D.

    I like this idea of having the tutorial take place in Sanctus before you go through the portal to Verra.
    Vets can just run straight into the portal if they don't want to do the tutorial.

    There's no magic in Sanctus, and story-wise it makes sense that you'd be taught basic skills before you are sent through the portal.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
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