Leash Length of NPC's

Myboyfriend

In my experience of leash length variations in the MMORPG World of Warcraft, I discovered that I enjoyed a long and very long leash range to NPC's over a medium, and even more so over a short one. For immersion, it felt more realistic when an NPC was engaged and you couldn't remove the threat just by running a medium or even short distance. This increased, for me, the difficulty, the threat, and the respect I had over NPC's. This also opened up the challenges and/or opportunities to kite mobs in, what were for me at times, a rewarding and skill challenging kite game (memories of being a hunter in the first installment of World of Warcraft flash in my mind as I write that). Also, with long, or no leash distances at all, getting somewhere was more of an achievement as you'd have to work to get there, and not just cheese the experience by running past NPC's, the NPC's holding minute obstacle to your goal (how to make an NPC almost irrelevant?) and seemed to be, for me, another factor of the gaming experience that supported fast food like gaming experiences. What are your thoughts on the matter?

George_Black

I want mobs to chase players to the end of the world.

Lore Dynamic

In Final Fantasy 11, mobs will chase you ALL the way to the end of the zone! It was terrifying.
And exciting! haha!

daveywavey

Ugh, if all I want to do is get across the map, having mobs continually chasing my mount is just annoying. They should give up at some point.

Xenotor

In ragnarok the mobs too chased you all the way to the entrence of the next zone.
That made it possible to gather the mobs of an entire dungoun in a singel spot if you were good at it.
Usally in combo with AoE classes to get massive exp.

Would be nice if they did this in AoC as Well.
Not chasing over the entire world but all the way to the border between zones.

It would also pretty cool if mobs don't just go invulnerable upon reaching leash length but rather attack the person with the second most aggro atm.
If there is no player to hold the aggro, them the mob resets and gets insta full health while running back towards its spawn.
If it gets attacked while running back, then we are back to square 1 and it keeps chasing the attacker until death or end of zone.

The person who left leash length resets his/her own contribution on the mob.
So no loot or exp even if the mob was at 10%
If someone runs all the way to leash length then they should not get anything in return.
Just to counter the players who would cheese the system.

Sathrago

Back in wrath of the lich king on world of warcraft they didn't have a leash range and I would kite the big bronze dragon from caverns of time alllll the way to orgrimmar killing hundreds as I passed through.

So probably not unlimited, perhaps not zone wide, but I could get behind some 200 to 300 "meter" leash distances. A concern to have with this is someone being able to leash powerful mobs that have mechanics that kill off any lowbies who wander too close.

daveywavey wrote: »

Ugh, if all I want to do is get across the map, having mobs continually chasing my mount is just annoying. They should give up at some point.

Dont path into mobs then hehe.

bloodprophet

Myboyfriend wrote: »

In my experience of leash length variations in the MMORPG World of Warcraft, I discovered that I enjoyed a long and very long leash range to NPC's over a medium, and even more so over a short one. For immersion, it felt more realistic when an NPC was engaged and you couldn't remove the threat just by running a medium or even short distance. This increased, for me, the difficulty, the threat, and the respect I had over NPC's. This also opened up the challenges and/or opportunities to kite mobs in, what were for me at times, a rewarding and skill challenging kite game (memories of being a hunter in the first installment of World of Warcraft flash in my mind as I write that). Also, with long, or no leash distances at all, getting somewhere was more of an achievement as you'd have to work to get there, and not just cheese the experience by running past NPC's, the NPC's holding minute obstacle to your goal (how to make an NPC almost irrelevant?) and seemed to be, for me, another factor of the gaming experience that supported fast food like gaming experiences. What are your thoughts on the matter?

I started a thread about this couple years ago. Personally I would like to see a random 30% that has no leash at all.
I agree it makes the world more dangerous and meaningful vs just running through stuff knowing in ten steps it will go back where it was.

Blueh

Yea and the "30%" or w.e would be known as super pests or just extra dangerous, could be coolcool

daveywavey

Even a lioness gives up the hunt eventually. The gazelle just has to stay ahead of it. There comes a point when the chase just becomes ridiculous.

George_Black

daveywavey wrote: »

Even a lioness gives up the hunt eventually. The gazelle just has to stay ahead of it. There comes a point when the chase just becomes ridiculous.

You cant expect to traverse the map ignoring mobs.
This is why I dislike most mmos and their mounts these past 10 years.
Where is the adventure when combat engagement becomes optional?

daveywavey

George Black wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

Even a lioness gives up the hunt eventually. The gazelle just has to stay ahead of it. There comes a point when the chase just becomes ridiculous.

You cant expect to traverse the map ignoring mobs.
This is why I dislike most mmos and their mounts these past 10 years.
Where is the adventure when combat engagement becomes optional?

I don't expect to traverse the map ignoring mobs. Don't recall ever typing that...

But similarly, I shouldn't expect a mob to chase me across the entire map if I'm running out ahead of it.

MrScrewtape

There has to be limits, otherwise the method of gathering massive amounts of mobs in a train then AOEing them down while the tank runs by will be too powerful.

Also messing with monster pathing over long pathing routes while a ranged attacker is firing away the entire time as the mob runs up and down stairs to get at you also is somewhat game breaking.

Yea it is a little immersion breaking to have mobs give up after X meters every time, but this is a computer game and not real. Game design and mechanics can't truly emulate realistic behaviors for "threat" ranges. Finding that sweat spot of not too short and not too long depending on the mob and area will be tough and not everyone will ever be please.

Vashramire

Kiting world bosses to cities is pretty funny like in wow. Kinda trollish as AOE wipes lowbies in your path but leash distance should be within the realm of common logic. Most things will give up once you get a reasonable distance away irl and so should mobs. You can make it vary, like some mobs are territorial and lose aggro once you leave their habitat or a gang of thieves chases for a while or aggros other nearby thieves with it to chase. Just some variety but with some rp flavor.

mrwaffles

Omg yessss! Make the leash infinite! I want to feel like Jamie Lee Curtis and the mobs are Michael Myers. No matter where I run they're going to get my buns.

I talked about how in this video Steven comments on how the underworld mobs leashes are long and he sounded surprised. Nah @StevenSharif , you step into the wrong neighborhood you gots to learn a lesson.

I can't tell you how much I hate doing PVE with people and they are yelling at me "just run through them Waffles! They dont mean anything..." But they should matter.

Lastly, my fondest memories in L2 is seeing people bite off more then they could chew and they runnin' past with 1% health, mobs in tow, screaming for help


(actual footage of what AoC should feel like)

Sathrago

Well, This all comes back to why daze is a core feature in most mmorpgs. No matter how annoying it is, it couldn't be more annoying than having everything aggro indefinitely. Creating a sense of danger in the world without forcing players to engage with every little rabid squirrel they walk past should be the goal imo.

Lore Dynamic

screwtape wrote: »

...but this is a computer game and not real.

"not real" ?
Sir, what is this insanity that you speak of?!

Hyruler

It would be amazing if the leash would break based on distance from player to enemy (and not based on where combat started). It'd be nice to be able to carefully kite monsters across the map by keeping them relatively close to you but also having the option to break the leash by exceeding a set range between you and your target (which would vary per monster. Big slow monsters would give up easier than a fast raptor).

Arkethos

I think it would be fitting for different mob types or reactions to have different leash lengths. Like a guard at a gate would likely only scare you off a short distance before wanting to return to their post, but if you attack them perhaps that length increases by X%. A guard on patrol might have a longer leash before wanting to return to their route. A scout might have an extremely long leash to try to make sure you don’t report their whereabouts.

I would like to see fauna have a more aggressive stance when defending their young, but their young being the leash “tether” that keeps them in check. Kill the young? No more leash.

Also, I hope there is some thought into more than just a turn on a dime and “forget about you” sort of leash. It would be nice to have some sort of pause, hold their ground and maybe even taunt before turning back to their “starting point.” Guards could jeer or laugh, and animals might make some sort of display or call of victory.

Additionally, if you keep aggroing the same mob(s), maybe there is a 3 strike system where the leash length increases each time until strike 3 = no leash.

That sort of dynamic immersion would really hold my interest.

Azryil

I think mobs should continue to chase you as long as they can still see you, however if you're fast enough to leave render distance mobs should reset

Arkethos

Azryil wrote: »

I think mobs should continue to chase you as long as they can still see you, however if you're fast enough to leave render distance mobs should reset

How about creatures that focus on scent or hearing? I like the idea of an active “tracking” range that if you can escape that bubble, the aggro is lost. Or maybe certain mobs switch from “pursuit” mode to “hunt” mode if you evade them... that keeps them active in the vicinity for a period of time before they give up and leash back.

Tyranthraxus

This is one of the internal discussions that yours truly would genuinely enjoy getting a recording of; There's no doubt people on the team that have differing views, as well.

Ultimately, it should probably work by level: If you're level 50 and running through a level 10 zone, it feels like you're probably okay to run through it and lose aggro a small distance away - instead of having to slaughter several groups. In contrast, you probably should NOT be able to run through a max-level area with complete impunity to the enemies' aggro.

It's a tricky subject. Not the highest priority on my list, but it'd nonetheless to know what approach(es) Intrepid is planning, for this.

bigepeen

Azryil wrote: »

I think mobs should continue to chase you as long as they can still see you, however if you're fast enough to leave render distance mobs should reset

I think this is exploitable for the same reasons that people have previously mentioned: leading infinite mobs through a choke point somewhere on the map. You could have one team pulling mobs, and another team AOEing a choke point.

BobzUrUncle

When did AoC become an S&M game? Why would we put leashes on NPC's? That is kind of kinky...

Ostaff

I think mobs should do the following:

1) Get tired/bored of chasing after so long (depending on its type)
2) Stop at its territorial boundaries (depending on its type)
3) Get distracted by other "interesting" mobs/npcs/players
4) Lose track of its prey for a certain amount of time (depending on its type could be sense of smell, site, hearing. A person downwind would be very hard to follow by smell, a person hiding would be hard to follow by site, a person being totally still would be hard to follow by sound)

With different types of ways to lose a mob would create many different fun scenarios for the player and make evading a knowledge based skill. The distraction and tired/boredom will hinder kiting into bottlenecks, and they can add a "fear" factor to keep the mob from willingly rushing into a crowded area.