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Getting jumped on. Recovery/fightback chance. An idea

George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
edited October 2020 in General Discussion
Obviously the TTK of a game plays a big role in a chance to fight back a player that gets a jump on you.

Before I get into the idea of this topic I want to lay some pipe.

1) AoC wants to bring back the open world feeling of mmorpgs. That means that there will be cases of involuntary PvP. People that don't like PvP will have to deal with the RARE cases, that somebody wants to kill them for no reason.

2) The corruption system is there to protect the community from players that decide to go on rampage. You can still kill a few people you dislike, even if they don't fight back with low risk. As long as you don't go on a killing spree. It has been mentioned that there will be quests for aggressive players to redeem themselves and reduce the risks that go with being corrupted. Personally, in a previous game whenever I PKed 3 people, after burning my corruption status, I'd go and do those redeeming quests to bring my PK count back to 0, so that when I wanted to kill another person that bothered me, I wouldn';t be afraid to drop gear upon death. And so, I never went on a senseless killing spree and bother the community.

3) The idea in the next post is not about caravans, sieges, guild wars with large number of players on both sides knowing that shit is about to go down. The idea is mostly for random encounters, in which players may or may not belong in guilds that hate each other. The fight can happen during xp, during questing, during gathering and the victim won't know that shit is about to go down.

The above points have nothing to do with the topic. Feel free to quote these, but it would derail the idea I want to discuss which is open world PVP not PK.
(combatant vs combatant. Purple vs purple.)

Comments

  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited October 2020
    So here is what I propose. The % numbers are used as an example. I don't know what HP will look like in AoC or what dmg will look like.

    In a scenario that a player gets attacked, if that player quickly loses let's say 25% HP, I suggest that a protective shield (no need for fancy visuals) gives that player invincibility for whatever number of seconds is appropriate for AoC TTK, in order for the victim to have a fighting chance against the player(s) who jumped him or her.
    Like a passive universal ability unlocked at lv10 or so, called "Fight or Flight" or "Adrenaline Rush" with a 15-20 minute cooldown. Once attacked, you are on high alert. No more need for the protective shield. 15 minutes is a good cooldown for the player to let their guard down, in the even of another random PvP attack.

    In many open world games, the element of surprise is almost always the deciding factor when gear and ability are on same level.

  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited October 2020
    I always play a fighter. Fairly high HP that can absorb an attack, and strength to make the aggressor hurt. I don't care about dps or what have you, my game is adventure and fighter is my class.
    But how do healers feel? Being busted within seconds of any fight, instantly targeted by all the 64 classes of AoC in the future.

    Now I'd also like to propose a unique attack available to Rogues and 'evil mage' classes.
    An attack on let's say (and based on what the AoC combat will end up being) of 15-20s cooldown that penetrates 100% any invincibility barriers, being the universal passive I proposed above, or core class abilities for tanks or healers.

    These lethal attacks will give an extra, meaningful flavour to Rogues and such. A true PvP identity of the deadly assassins with a task to take down a strategic target.
    Preferably for the 'evil mage' classes the lethal attack that ignores the protective shield should be at a closer range than most attacks.

    So there you have it. A rogue jumps on a target, the target may quickly lose let's say 25% HP and the shield activates, giving the player a fight back chance. But the rogue is a relentless killer, he/she chooses to use the lethal penetrating attack and overwhelm their victim, bringing them closer to defeat.
    The victim however, will have a fighting chance against all other classes.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited October 2020
    I don't like handholding, nor would I want to see this system waste an aggressors MP. Nor will it protect people that HATE PvP, and never spend time to improve their fighting skills.
    The idea is here to make combat less favourable to the initiators.

    People might argue that the element of surprise is a tactic that needs to be in the game. I say too much realism is harmful to a video game.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • VmanGmanVmanGman Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Can you imagine how bad it would feel to want to gank someone and know that you’re more likely to lose because your opponent has a few seconds of invulnerability? And only giving rogues a way to avoid this situation sounds like an insane imbalance...

    This just feels unnecessary and imbalanced. If you don’t want to die in a game that has open world PvP just look over your shoulder. Keep it simple.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    I personally like the idea, other than the aspect of it being a universal effect.

    I'd like to take the general idea, and split it in to 8 flavors - giving one to each class as an ability that they can invest in, and perhaps also augment.

    This means players that are fairly confident in their reaction time to PvP can invest in other areas, where as those that are not at all confident (and also perhaps have a bit of latency) can opt to spend points in this ability to improve it, and perhaps also a specific augment to assist them as well.

    Maybe someone thinks they need it to trigger more than once every 15 minutes, so they can invest points so that it can trigger every 10. Or someone else invests points so that insted of triggering after 25% damage, it triggers after 22%, or even 20%. Maybe an augment that teleports the character back 5 meters if they are attacked while this effect is on (if safe to do so), or even offers a damage reflect or very short duration CC effect (0.2 seconds or so).

    I also like the idea of giving an ability to rouges and mages to penetrate barriers like this - but I think the cooldown on an ability like this should be much closer to the cooldown on the shields it is penetrating. If the cooldown on that ability is measured in seconds, then shields will be literally useless to 25% of the classes in the game, and those two classes are the ones that the bulk of PvP players will use.

    Make the cooldown on that ability closer to 5 minutes and you have a good system.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    As much as I don't want to be randomly attacked while I'm out picking pretty flowers, I'm just not feeling this idea.

    And I don't see why Rogues and Mages should get a special benefit.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • TyrantorTyrantor Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Well as a rogue player i'm all in favor of giving rogues more "fire power" but not at the cost of creating some fake auto save "invisible shield" lol. No thanks to this.
    Tyrantor
    Master Assassin
    (Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
    Book suggestions:
    Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It sounds like something that might be fun for a while. Then I think it would become less so as the shield would discourage attackers from even trying in many cases.

    Ashes is more focused on encouraging open world PvP using drivers such as scarce resources and limited availability of world bosses and dungeons rather than limiting such PvP through discouragement.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    I agree that limitatios and barriets go against the spirit of open world. Just a discussion and c where it goes.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Just as an FYI, the stated TTK that Intrepid is going for is around 30 seconds. If someone of an equal power level jumps you, you aren't likely to be burned down without a chance to defend yourself. If you are a low level player who gets jumped by a high level player and you are green, that high level player is going to get a ton of corruption. If you are purple and you get jumped, that I'm not sure about. I hope that they scale the death penalty in that case and you don't lose very much (XP debt or dropped resources).
     
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