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[Suggestion] Ingame guild DKP feature

XenotorXenotor Member, Alpha Two
in General Discussion
DKP or Dragon kill points is a feature most MMORPG players know of and is used in combination with the master looter rule.

For the people that don't, here is the description:
Lets say you do a 40 man raid and an Epic sword drops.
That sword can only get to 1 person.
So to make it fair. Guilds decided to give everyone DKP for participating in the raid.
Said DKP can then be used to bet on the loot that is droped.
So Mark got 5000 DKP already saved from previous raids and Jon got 3500 points saved.

The sword drops and mark and Jon fight a betting war until DKP reaches 4000 and Jon is out.
Mark now has the epic sword and 1000 DKP left.
Jon and everyone else get 500 dkp for the kill.
So the next time the sword drops, Jon will get it unless another sword user with more dkp is in the raid.


Now with that out of the way.
Usually DKP is tracked on the Guild page and so when a sword drops the Masterlooter has to tab out and check everyone's dkp / assign dkp.
On the same page the member have to check their DKP to know how much they can bet.


Since the feature is something that is used in every MMORPG with Master looter and AoC will have Master looter, then why not bring this feature ingame.

I propose 2 steps to this.

Step 1: (light implementation)
-The Guild leader can activate the DKP feature for the guild by a checkbox.
-Another Checkbox to make DKP visible for all members.
-Every member will then see in the member overview not only the names, level etc but also the DKP of everyone.
-Allow the guild leader and officers with the correct permissions to manually assign and take away DKP ingame.

Now people don't need to tab out to check and assign a core feature of guild raiding.


Once AoC is a couple years in or the devs are bored and look for something to do then there is
Step 2: (heavy implementation)
-When a raid is formed by an officer of the guild, then all members participating get DKP auto assigned.
-The number of DKP and the frequency ( each boss or end of the raid) can be controlled by the Guild leader/officers.
-Members who are part of the raid get an in game betting feature to use the dkp.
-Another option is added for the masterlooter to control who can bet.
Once the masterlooter loots the sword, every member gets a pop up to either "Apply to the betting" or to "Pass"
Maybe 5 people want the sword but only 3 people really need it.
Or maybe no one needs the sword and everyone can bet for it. The Masterlooter should be the one to decide.



I also would like an ingame raid calendar but that is another topic so what do you guys think of ingame DKP?


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Comments

  • Sov54Sov54 Member
    edited October 2020
    DKPs make sense in a heavy raid-centered game like WoW. Here, looting epic full items won't be the way to equip yourself.
    Maybe rare patterns will be more valuable, and you will still need the cooperation of guildies to benefit from it.

    I think that a more social way to approach will be way more appropriate for AoC: Talking to people. I hope that's all we are going to need.
  • WarthWarth Member, Alpha Two
    Sov54 wrote: »
    DKPs make sense in a heavy raid-centered game like WoW. Here, looting epic full items won't be the way to equip yourself.
    Maybe rare patterns will be more valuable, and you will still need to cooperation of guildies to benefit from it.

    I think that a more social way to approach will be way more appropriate for AoC: Talking to people. I hope that's all we are going to need.

    Whether its a DKP system ot not doesn't really matter to me, but in the 2020s, basic organizatorial features for guild interfaces in game should be common:
    • In-detail permission management
    • leadership chats
    • a calendar
    • extensive guild announcements / news
    • a customizable board
    • an interface to manage intra-guild/intra-alliance notes, buy and sell orders
    • ...
    • a DKP like system, if any guild wants to use something like that
    • in-detail tracking of player contribution to guild related quest, taxes and contributions

    Obviously you can outsource this stuff over discord, websites, spreadsheets. However, i am a firm believer, that its bad design (especially for an MMO) to force people to alt-tab to utilize organizatorial functions.

    You want them to keep playing, forcing them out of the game is counter-intuitive.
    Especially in a game designed around guilds and communities. These functions to organize communities can't be missing.
  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I'm against a DKP system in every way. I am a bit biased as a guild leader but I have legitimately never had loot issues. My players communicate with their class officer and the officer decides where loot goes based on their own choices. I have ML and send it where it needs to be. It is much easier because I am main tanking but realistically the view I push is if we all just focus on the content, the loot will flow. I guess if a dkp system was built in I wouldn't mind it, but I also wouldn't use it haha.
  • XenotorXenotor Member, Alpha Two
    Warth wrote: »
    Sov54 wrote: »
    DKPs make sense in a heavy raid-centered game like WoW. Here, looting epic full items won't be the way to equip yourself.
    Maybe rare patterns will be more valuable, and you will still need to cooperation of guildies to benefit from it.

    I think that a more social way to approach will be way more appropriate for AoC: Talking to people. I hope that's all we are going to need.

    Whether its a DKP system ot not doesn't really matter to me, but in the 2020s, basic organizatorial features for guild interfaces in game should be common:
    • In-detail permission management
    • leadership chats
    • a calendar
    • extensive guild announcements / news
    • a customizable board
    • an interface to manage intra-guild/intra-alliance notes, buy and sell orders
    • ...
    • a DKP like system, if any guild wants to use something like that
    • in-detail tracking of player contribution to guild related quest, taxes and contributions

    Obviously you can outsource this stuff over discord, websites, spreadsheets. However, i am a firm believer, that its bad design (especially for an MMO) to force people to alt-tab to utilize organizatorial functions.

    You want them to keep playing, forcing them out of the game is counter-intuitive.
    Especially in a game designed around guilds and communities. These functions to organize communities can't be missing.

    so many good points.

    Under contributions i would list crafting resources as well. A DKP like system could be used here.
    Donate 1000 logs of rare wood and get X points.
    For these points you can get that juicy sword out of the guild bank.
    Its a fair system that allows these that donate a lot to get out a lot of the guild bank.

    I guess i should have called this thread Guild features that we need.
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  • JahlonJahlon Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I 100% support this suggestion and would be willing to do a lot of the leg work on top of what @Xenotor has already done to map it out on paper for Intrepid.

    This sort of system being implemented in game could go a long way for much easier guild management.

    Understandable its probably not a "at launch" sort of item since we don't want feature creep, but this could come in an early/follow-up QOL DLC.
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    Make sure to check out Ashes 101
    Ashes 101 on YouTube
  • VoidwalkersVoidwalkers Member
    edited November 2020
    For me the sight of the word "DKP" immediately brings back painful memories from the old days of vanilla wow raids - when raids became "work", loot / dkp became "salary", and all of a sudden a mere game was taking priority over many RL activities out of the fear that I would be forever-outbid by more active no-life members if I missed raids.

    But I guess it's a system that works well for guilds that are heavily raid-oriented and have solid groups.

    Anyway, if this is to be implemented as an in-game feature (as others have pointed out, if it's a system that ppl will use anyway, might as well implement the tools for it in-game and make ppl's life easier), at least include options for members to earn it through means other than raiding, e.g. completing in-game jobs / tasks posted by guild leaders, making donations to guild banks, and providing artisan services etc.

    And better yet, rename it to something like "contribution points" instead of "dkp" :p. (I really, really, have a PTSD level hatred for "dragon killing points", and yup I understand it's just my opinions)

    Although I'd rather have gold-based instead of dkp-based bidding as a loot distribution mechanism - At least after each raid everyone gets to walk away with some useful reward.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    The way we did it in my last guild is that we'd just ask at the beginning of the raid if anyone was after a particular item, and if that item came up, they'd get it. Didn't need any "points" system, we just spoke to each other.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • MaezrielMaezriel Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Gotta agree w/ @Warth. W/ a game as centered on being social as AoC is meant to be having deep and customizable guild tools present in game would be huge.

    In the far future I'd love to also see those systems expanded into an app so that you can manage things while out of game.
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    If I said something that you disagree w/ feel free to say so here.
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