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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
PVP does not seem that rewarding
Leh
Member
Hey all, first time poster here. As a background, I have played a smidge of WOW, but for the most part my background is from Runescape, which I have played for 10+ years. AOC has really caught my eye, and I am excited for it.
The reason I bring up that I am from Runescape, is because I think Runescape has a vastly different play style than many MMOs when it comes to PVP. I have played Runescape PVP and created many builds, and quite enjoy it.
Everyone seems extremely shocked that killing people can give some drops in the form of hunting certificates, as if stealing loot from the players you kill is an insane notion. From my understanding, killing a player of an opposing faction did not do anything more than inconvenience the opposing player, which is why this is a game changer. Meanwhile, in Runescape, if you kill someone in PVP, you take nearly all of the gear that the opposing player has on them. Much more punishing, and conversely, rewarding. I understand that there is the corruption mechanic for dropping items, but this feels like more of a deterrent from PVP than a drive for it.
To me, while it might be somewhat appealing to engage in PVP sometimes, I don't feel like it is very appealing to create a PVP build. In WOW, you at least (to my understanding) had arenas, which created an esports-y feel to it which would appeal to PVP players' competitive spirits. From what I can understand, many people solely play or watch MMOs for the PVP experience, so I'd hope that there are more than just these guild/node attacks for PVP.
tldr; Engaging in PVP for some hunting notes seems too boring to keep a PVP player engaged with the game for a long amount of time.
PS: not hating on anything, just offering up some observations on what I've seen so far. Pumped for this game, really!
The reason I bring up that I am from Runescape, is because I think Runescape has a vastly different play style than many MMOs when it comes to PVP. I have played Runescape PVP and created many builds, and quite enjoy it.
Everyone seems extremely shocked that killing people can give some drops in the form of hunting certificates, as if stealing loot from the players you kill is an insane notion. From my understanding, killing a player of an opposing faction did not do anything more than inconvenience the opposing player, which is why this is a game changer. Meanwhile, in Runescape, if you kill someone in PVP, you take nearly all of the gear that the opposing player has on them. Much more punishing, and conversely, rewarding. I understand that there is the corruption mechanic for dropping items, but this feels like more of a deterrent from PVP than a drive for it.
To me, while it might be somewhat appealing to engage in PVP sometimes, I don't feel like it is very appealing to create a PVP build. In WOW, you at least (to my understanding) had arenas, which created an esports-y feel to it which would appeal to PVP players' competitive spirits. From what I can understand, many people solely play or watch MMOs for the PVP experience, so I'd hope that there are more than just these guild/node attacks for PVP.
tldr; Engaging in PVP for some hunting notes seems too boring to keep a PVP player engaged with the game for a long amount of time.
PS: not hating on anything, just offering up some observations on what I've seen so far. Pumped for this game, really!
0
Comments
If you haven't had a chance to review the wiki article on pvp, here's a link.
Enjoy!
As far as PvP activities go, these should be fairly rewarding.
Thanks for the link Crow, I hadn't read the part on Arenas.
Yeah it seems that way, 1on1 combat does not seem to be the focus, which is kind of a shame for me personally but fair enough if that's the game design.
Along with RS I also like fighting games like SSBM, so I like the idea of one-on-one encounters.
I invite you to meditate what's actually rewarding about pvp.
For me, the value and reward of pvp is interacting with another players, not stealing their things.
Agreed. AoC isn't removing the ability to kill others in open world, only discouraging it a bit with the corruption system. The real PvP rewards come by way of more organized events.
The biggest problem I have with full gear lootability is, it actually encourages players to be a$$holes (see New World for how PvP was done wrong) while at the same time DIScouraging many from wanting to play.....So you spend all that time farming for that great gear only to have someone PK you and loot it off you. You THEN have to resort to wearing crap gear all the time so as to avoid losing that greet stuff, thus pretty much defeating the purpose of getting it in the first place.
Hey bud just want to clarify the hunting certs or "notes" per your tldr. This is the games version of gold drop from mobs though instead of gold you have to then sell the certs, it's localized so different certificates will be worth more than others based on geographic location in the world, which means instead of getting 1gp for every wolf kill you could theoretically transport this to another region where it sells for 5gp per.
With that said, you will gain additional loot if they have raw materials for crafting and items from the players mule. So while you may not get their equipped gear it's way better than most games.
Lastly they would have to rework their entire economy to account for players losing full sets of gear on death which would then need to devalue crafted gear substantially. In addition to this the game would likely require them to adjust the travel system to include substantially more fast travel options so people could re-gear after a death.
While I personally like the idea of full loot I do not believe it sits well with the current overall design of the game and would not want them to adjust it. If anything I would however vote for finished item drops from characters bag(s).
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
Albion online in a nutshell.
Open world (you can attack and kill anyone, virtually anywhere)
Castle sieges
Node sieges (Loot a portion of all the stored materials in the node)
Objective based guild wars.
Other social organizations wars
Caravans
Naval PVP
Arenas
The rewards between different PVP vary a bit, but are focused on taking the defeated player(s) raw and refined materials. Since the great majority of all equipment will be crafted, crafting materials should retain a high value.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP
Arena's in WoW also decimated the balance of the game as it changed it from large group PvP and focused on smaller fights. This in turn caused huge issues where balancing a skill to be fair in an Arena could make it useless in PvE and vice-versa. Also, there's almost no reward for World PvP in WoW which means when you're getting camped (and there's no downside for the camper) while out questing it's solely b/c the guy camping is just being an ass.
At least w/ the risk/reward system of loot drops and corruption you're not forced to just log off due to the actions of one person and there's a legitimate reason to engage in PvP.
I really don't want Arenas to be anything more than a side game. If the world of Verra is supposed to be the main content then having something where people just sit in town and wait for a queue goes strictly against that. If people want an esports feel then caravans are a classic version of a "protect the payload" game and we don't yet know how exactly sieges will look.
I actually had a very similar experience in SB (Shadowbane, don't know if anyone remembers that MMO).......SB was full on PvP with player driven city building, sieging and subsequent razing to the ground. You could also do so at any time of day. Only bring spot was, no full loot but it didn't matter in the end.
So one afternoon I log in to find the city I had been helping build for the last 2 months was razed to the ground, all that hard work, effort and cash gone. As we were logging in we were also being hunted down and killed. The thing about SB was, each death your armor would degrade and people were camping the graveyard so I would re-spawn, be killed again and again until literally my equipment fell off me. I had no interest in repeating that process so I started searching for a new MMO that day.
Seems like you and I had very different experiences in that game. I played it for 10+/- years.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
Were you the graveyard camper?!
What he describes in terms of the respawn killing was mostly only present in that scenario outside of sieges if you're bound to your guilds city it was very uncommon for people to be in position to camp your spawn. The loss of the cities in that game was the primary reason for the population to constantly decrease as the cost/upkeep for the cities was a massive undertaking to lose in a few hour siege especially since the cost to siege the cities was relatively insignificant.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
Please don't tell me you were a member of the DHL
I played SB from day 1 for about a year until the incident. I had cities razed before but the graveyard camp thing was the last straw for me. Experience was probably different time/ different server. I don't remember dates or servers anymore though.