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Why I Think Players Should be Able to Choose Their Node Type

SqueezySqueezy Member, Alpha Two
edited November 2020 in General Discussion
Hey readers,
As we have been told by the developers, there are 4 different types of nodes, all four with different benefits and election processes.

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The Economic Node
The Religious Node
The Scientific Node
The Military Node


As far as I know, the devs stated that starting node will be predetermined at random, and I think randomly generated on different servers. But I want you readers to think about a different approach and let me know your thoughts.
Assuming that players will want to inhabit all four of these node types to reap different benefits, then why shouldn't players have the ability to choose a node type for the node they want to stay in?

A couple of reasons behind this question:

Tactical Advantage Say you're a guild or a group that wants to dominate its region through military conquest and you want to be able to defend yourself when eventually everyone gets mad at your node and comes knocking on your door. So you and your group find some place with a node that to you seems to have some geographical advantage, like an impassable mountain on one side. You want to create your node there, but turns out you "can't" because its a religious node.

Economic Advantage Same thing can be stated here. You and your guild or group find a place where you feel like you get a lot of gathering resources or you see a lot of good trade routes by the sea for your group to go along and trade. You want to set up an economic node there, but you can't because its a military node.

Scientific Advantage Say you want to create two scientific Metropolises in order to establish a teleport across the map, but you can't because one of those nodes on either side of the map isn't scientific.
I think you can actually use this as a counterargument and say that this is the exact reason why players shouldn't be able
to pick their nodes and I somewhat agree with that because I am strongly against meta gamey fast travel in order to
avoid the game, but at the same time I would say if you have that type of power and want as a group of players to make
TWO scientific metropolises in order to teleport then you have put enough work into the game that you deserve to unlock
that teleport.

Aesthetic Advantage Lastly, sometimes its just about things looking pretty, if players want a certain type of node in one specific area where they like the way things look, why not let them pick their node type.

The developers could also create some sort of different quests/stories (Some sort of content) for the player groups to do in order to be able to achieve their desired node type.

Let me know what you think, if you disagree, let me know why? And thank you for reading :)

TLDR: It would be cool to choose the node type instead of it being pre-determined.

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Comments

  • Don't you think that the node types being fixed would promote exactly the type of tactical gameplay you're after? If two very big guilds wanted to link two scientific metropolises but the distant node was already religious, they'd have to raze that city and build up a nearby one to create that result.

    I like your thoughts about terrain advantage - I'm really eager to see how nodes interact with their terrain and if the creation of chokepoints is something we might see
  • SathragoSathrago Member, Alpha Two
    I believe one of the biggest reasons for node types being fixed is because otherwise it fundamentally changes the nodes layout depending on the terrain and special buildings for said node.

    Meaning military node A will always be different from military node B, creating a ton more work for the node creating team.

    It's a nice idea but do you believe they should create 4 different node layouts with an additional 9 different racial types for every single node of which there are well over 100? At least with the races they just have to reskin everything, with a change in node type you get a completely different city.
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  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 2020
    You can choose your node type. Because you can choose which node is yours. You're not stuck with the first node you come across. Go find the one you want!
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Just to clear up a little misinformation here. The node types and locations are pre-determined and the same across all the servers. The only thing that changes is which nodes the players choose to develop.
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  • Just to clear up a little misinformation here. The node types and locations are pre-determined and the same across all the servers. The only thing that changes is which nodes the players choose to develop.

    It hasn't always been like that, has it? i recall they said people decided the node type they wanted to build. Or the mayor did
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    insomnia wrote: »
    Just to clear up a little misinformation here. The node types and locations are pre-determined and the same across all the servers. The only thing that changes is which nodes the players choose to develop.

    It hasn't always been like that, has it? i recall they said people decided the node type they wanted to build. Or the mayor did

    It's remained the same as far as I'm aware.
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  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    insomnia wrote: »
    Just to clear up a little misinformation here. The node types and locations are pre-determined and the same across all the servers. The only thing that changes is which nodes the players choose to develop.

    It hasn't always been like that, has it? i recall they said people decided the node type they wanted to build. Or the mayor did

    Indirectly, by their choice of location. If you choose to level xp in a Scientific node, you choose you build a Scientific city.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • LieutenantToastLieutenantToast Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Hiya folks! Wandering Mist's info above is indeed correct, in terms of node types and locations being pre-determined (not at random) and in parity across all servers!

    To @insomnia's point, it has always been described this way as far as I know as well. You can check out more on where we've discussed this previously in our "Know Your Nodes: The Basics" article here!

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  • Lore DynamicLore Dynamic Member, Alpha Two
    daveywavey wrote: »
    You can choose your node type. Because you can choose which node is yours. You're not stuck with the first node you come across. Go find the one you want!

    That's a simplistic, but very valid and important observation. :)

    You don't like the city you live in? Move. ^_^


    Steven Sharif is my James Halliday (Anorak)

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    “That is not dead which can eternal lie,
    And with strange aeons even death may die.”

    -HPL
  • SathragoSathrago Member, Alpha Two
    Just to clear up a little misinformation here. The node types and locations are pre-determined and the same across all the servers. The only thing that changes is which nodes the players choose to develop.

    It was my belief that the OP wants to change this so that any node location can become any node type. Which would be very very tedious to do in my opinion.
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  • daveywavey wrote: »
    You can choose your node type. Because you can choose which node is yours. You're not stuck with the first node you come across. Go find the one you want!

    Aww. You beat me to it. Choose the node you want to live in and be happy. Problem solved!
  • DargronDargron Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    daveywavey wrote: »
    You can choose your node type. Because you can choose which node is yours. You're not stuck with the first node you come across. Go find the one you want!

    And presumably, you won't need to go far to find it.

    I'm assuming that the map will be set up in a way that you won't have two nodes of the same type bordering one another wherever possible. So very likely, if you travel to an area that you want to set down roots, and the node type isn't to your liking, you will probably find the node type you are after in one of the bordering nodes next door.
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    boomer brain under the ol beverage influence here.

    so let's say an area called the Blight's Grove, located in Server 1 - it's under a zone of influence (military)
    therefor in server 2,3,4,5,6 - the Blight's grove is always a military node?

    I thought the blight's grove can be military node in server 1, science node in server 2, military in server 3, economy in server 4?
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  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 2020
    novercalis wrote: »
    boomer brain under the ol beverage influence here.

    so let's say an area called the Blight's Grove, located in Server 1 - it's under a zone of influence (military)
    therefor in server 2,3,4,5,6 - the Blight's grove is always a military node?

    I thought the blight's grove can be military node in server 1, science node in server 2, military in server 3, economy in server 4?

    Nope, they're the same across the entire Ashiverse.


    Edit: Copyrighting "Ashiverse"! :p:D
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    There seems to be lots of confusion about what a node is or isn't and zoi. I am going to use Washington state, Oregon, and California as examples. Washington is always a scientific node. Seattle is the node city. The borders of Washington state never change. Oregon is military. Portland, while right on the node border is always in Oregon and always military. California is economic and we will just go with LA being the node city, (I guess San Diego might be better as a tie-in.) And as in the previous two examples, the borders of California never change. Those are nodes.

    California has more people and advances quicker, it locks out Oregon at a level below it as its zone of influence expands into cover Oregon. Oregon advanced quicker than Washington and it has locked it out at a level below Oregon. Oregon's ZOI covers WA. So, the parent node in this case is CA, and its vassals are OR, and possibly WA at higher levels. These node type never change server to server. CA is always economic, OR is always military, and WA is always scientific. Now, since CA is the parent, all of the vassals will have options to build parent node type specific buildings. In the case of CA being economic, auction houses that link back to CA (depending on level of CA node of course.) Oregon is still a military node, is just has a new build option because of it's being a vassal to CA.

    This example is all on server 1. On server 2, WA advanced quickest, locking out the other two into vassals. The node types remain the same. But now OR and possible CA can build fast travel points because they are now under the zoi of WA as a build option for the OR and CA mayors. Two different servers, same node types, different build options.

    Hope this helps.
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  • neuroguyneuroguy Member, Alpha Two
    Just like @Cathartidae says, predetermined node types actually fit the game's philosophies better. Being able to change or determine the node type removes some of the conflict in game and incentive to siege and destroy nodes of a type you don't want to advance in favor of others you do want to advance.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Wonder how much is also tied into lore as well?
    As the nodes level and ruins are found that are tied to that specific node type. Maybe, I don't know but just a thought.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • SqueezySqueezy Member, Alpha Two
    neuroguy wrote: »
    Just like @Cathartidae says, predetermined node types actually fit the game's philosophies better. Being able to change or determine the node type removes some of the conflict in game and incentive to siege and destroy nodes of a type you don't want to advance in favor of others you do want to advance.
    That's a very good point

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  • The ability to move basically means that you can already choose which nodes you want. The ability to choose might be bad in this situation because you don't know what a server would pick ahead of time. Could be nothing but one type of node and that might make the game boring.

    It's more about seeing what multiple servers do with the resources given. Also you don't necessarily have to live at the node you spend a lot of your time at. You could choose to live in a crappy node nobody wants with no future.

    For this system only I think the ability to change node types would be bad. Especially if there is world balance involved. There may be reasons nodes of certain types are certain distances apart. There may be balance involved around what spawns at certain nodes when it turns into higher level nodes.

    I like the preset idea the game is currently using because it's not necessarily going to mean all of the servers pick the same choices. They will still be so many choices that changing node types will probably not be necessary or wanted.
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  • When you say 'players choose', who gets to choose? The first person to generate experience in the ZOI? The first person who walks into the ZOI?
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    When you say 'players choose', who gets to choose? The first person to generate experience in the ZOI? The first person who walks into the ZOI?

    As far as I know: The person at Intrepid Studios who's responsible for making the map.

    We're responsible for deciding whether or not we level xp there or somewhere else.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    daveywavey wrote: »
    When you say 'players choose', who gets to choose? The first person to generate experience in the ZOI? The first person who walks into the ZOI?

    As far as I know: The person at Intrepid Studios who's responsible for making the map.

    We're responsible for deciding whether or not we level xp there or somewhere else.

    I think @BobzUrUncle is asking the OP who would choose the Node's type if we were allowed to freely make a node whatever we wanted.
    I assume the OP expects that choice to be made by the mayor
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  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    maouw wrote: »
    I think @BobzUrUncle is asking the OP who would choose the Node's type if we were allowed to freely make a node whatever we wanted.
    I assume the OP expects that choice to be made by the mayor

    Ahhhh, I totally misread that, then! :p
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • SqueezySqueezy Member, Alpha Two
    daveywavey wrote: »
    maouw wrote: »
    I think @BobzUrUncle is asking the OP who would choose the Node's type if we were allowed to freely make a node whatever we wanted.
    I assume the OP expects that choice to be made by the mayor

    Ahhhh, I totally misread that, then! :p

    No i wanted players who developed the node at the start to be able to go through some sort of work or questline in order to make their node of the four node types
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  • daveywavey wrote: »
    When you say 'players choose', who gets to choose? The first person to generate experience in the ZOI? The first person who walks into the ZOI?

    As far as I know: The person at Intrepid Studios who's responsible for making the map.

    We're responsible for deciding whether or not we level xp there or somewhere else.

    Yup, I was referring to the OP. It seems that I didn't specify. :)
  • BobzUrUncleBobzUrUncle Member
    edited November 2020
    Squeezy wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    maouw wrote: »
    I think @BobzUrUncle is asking the OP who would choose the Node's type if we were allowed to freely make a node whatever we wanted.
    I assume the OP expects that choice to be made by the mayor

    Ahhhh, I totally misread that, then! :p

    No i wanted players who developed the node at the start to be able to go through some sort of work or questline in order to make their node of the four node types

    So, the node is still set only once. Why would Intrepid go to all the work to design all 4 node types into each one only to immediately have 3 blocked off. That would be a total waste of time. Just have them all set at the start.
    And if you don't start in the first few days, you do not get the choice of picking a node ever. It would be predetermined by the first people there who made the decision for you.
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