Boss Mechanics and How to Learn Them.

Squeezy

Hey Folks, I want to write this post in order to list out my hopes and thoughts as well as get some of your ideas for raid bosses.



My opinion is only semi-informed as I haven't read and watched everything to do with ashes, but I will go off of what I think is right.

As far as I've heard there will be no open API for Ashes and therefore no addons will be made for the game. The reasoning I heard for this was that the developers want to create a game that is customizable and listen to their player base in order to make changes and constantly improve the game, themselves without making the players rely on third party addons. I have also heard that bosses won't simply show what abilities they are using/casting at any given moment, and there won't be any given marks to players to move to, how to dodge those mechanics, or when to interrupt them etc. etc. I also understand that the developers want to create a system where bosses adjust their difficulty and loot table based on the players performance of the previous boss. This involves the boss not only getting stronger and having a higher health pool, but also learning and using new mechanics on the raid group.

So, as players we would want to be able to prepare for these boss fights, and devise plans in order to defeat them. In a lot of other games, mechanics of bosses are usually just listed on a database such as WoWHead for World of Warcraft and FFXIV Wiki for Final Fantasy XIV.

That got me thinking, if a bosses mechanics are influenced by the raids performance then and AOC database or wiki could be unreliable. I started thinking about how this issue could be solved - (If this even is an issue and I'm not overthinking it)

I thought a very cool way to prepare for boss mechanics is literally in game. The same way rogues will be able to find hidden passage ways and treasures, there should be some sort of way the players can analyze the boss for its mechanics. I don't think it would be a good idea to run in, gung-ho, wipe and learn the mechanics by trial and error. It would be a lot more interesting if different classes or professions or someone with a certain skillset can analyze that boss in order to inform the raid group and create a plan together.



For example: Mages would be able to understand some elemental abilities the boss has, clerics could understand necrotic abilities or holy mechanics, rogues/fighters would be able to figure out the physical mechanics, etc

In summary, I think it would be really cool for players to analyze bosses with different results and keep everything in game without having to break immersion and having to go on a website or a database, as well as providing different classes or professions a little bit more utility inside the raid, bringing the raid team closer together.

Warth

That got me thinking, if a bosses mechanics are influenced by the raids performance then and AOC database or wiki could be unreliable. I started thinking about how this issue could be solved - (If this even is an issue and I'm not overthinking it)

This is not an issue, you are overthinking it.
The AoC Database wouldn't be unreliable, just longer.
With entries for each Tier of Difficulty.

I have also heard that bosses won't simply show what abilities they are using/casting at any given moment, and there won't be any given marks to players to move to, how to dodge those mechanics, or when to interrupt them etc.

This just refers to there not being a "cast bar" for the boss, that tells you outright which ability he is using. You will still be able to discern it by his movements and animations. For example:

• A dragon spitting fire into the Air will tell you, that here will be fire raining down on you. Which allows you to address the mechanic.
• A dragon standing upright and stretch his wings will let you know, that he is using his wings to knock the entire raid back. Which allows you to address the mechanic.
• A dragon shrieking, will let you know that he just called for adds as reinforcements.

You don't need boss cast bars or add-ons to tell you what the enemy is doing. That's just the lazy way it was implemented in WoW to accomodate even the players with the worst perception.

Sathrago

Yeah the best way to describe the bosses would probably be as Dark souls bosses. They won't always do fist slam at 10 seconds in, and fist slam wont have a shiny red circle to move out of. You will have to learn its range and area effect. And this all scales to higher difficulty the better you are at clearing bosses.

Katak

Squeezy wrote: »

...
I thought a very cool way to prepare for boss mechanics is literally in game. The same way rogues will be able to find hidden passage ways and treasures, there should be some sort of way the players can analyze the boss for its mechanics. I don't think it would be a good idea to run in, gung-ho, wipe and learn the mechanics by trial and error. It would be a lot more interesting if different classes or professions or someone with a certain skillset can analyze that boss in order to inform the raid group and create a plan together.

For example: Mages would be able to understand some elemental abilities the boss has, clerics could understand necrotic abilities or holy mechanics, rogues/fighters would be able to figure out the physical mechanics, etc
...

Very nice post. I do like this suggestion, and would like to add to it some additional ideas/theories:

There should be ways to uncover information about the bosses in a given zone through non-combat skills, such as lore, arcana, perception, and the like.

While expertise-based analysis from each of the classes is an awesome idea, I also believe that some of the puzzle should be able to be pieced together through other means (other than a wiki, of course).

The goal here is not only to compare to the proven features of other games, but to add entirely new ideas to the mix. I like your post because it does offer a unique perspective.

Squeezy

Warth wrote: »

That got me thinking, if a bosses mechanics are influenced by the raids performance then and AOC database or wiki could be unreliable. I started thinking about how this issue could be solved - (If this even is an issue and I'm not overthinking it)

This is not an issue, you are overthinking it.
The AoC Database wouldn't be unreliable, just longer.
With entries for each Tier of Difficulty.

I have also heard that bosses won't simply show what abilities they are using/casting at any given moment, and there won't be any given marks to players to move to, how to dodge those mechanics, or when to interrupt them etc.

This just refers to there not being a "cast bar" for the boss, that tells you outright which ability he is using. You will still be able to discern it by his movements and animations. For example:

• A dragon spitting fire into the Air will tell you, that here will be fire raining down on you. Which allows you to address the mechanic.
• A dragon standing upright and stretch his wings will let you know, that he is using his wings to knock the entire raid back. Which allows you to address the mechanic.
• A dragon shrieking, will let you know that he just called for adds as reinforcements.

You don't need boss cast bars or add-ons to tell you what the enemy is doing. That's just the lazy way it was implemented in WoW to accomodate even the players with the worst perception.

I agree with a lot of this, but wouldn’t you want a cooler and more immersive way to learn about boss mechanics instead of a wiki?

daveywavey

Maybe the more times the boss has been fought, slightly more info appears about it in the Library of the nearest node?

ariatras

I like the idea of gathering intel on a boss. Though I am not sure I'd have it be class-based. But more based in in-game lore. As your node progresses and the dragon in the mountain is just one upgrade away from spawning. Quests start showing up that hint at this, and what sort of a creature/boss is coming. The nature of this beast, and perhaps some backstory on the last time it appeared, accounts of survivors written down, but lost through the ages. Stuff like that.

Vhaeyne

@Squeezy, This would not be a bad idea for a game with instanced bosses. I actually think it would be sweet to have multiple flavors of slippy from star fox in your party that make more information available. For those of you not in the know, you can't see the bosses HP bar in starfox 64 without slippy. Maybe without a cleric you could not see the bosses HP, bar due to not knowing enough about anatomy. A very interesting concept that I think should be explored by some game. I just am not sure that AoC is going to be the right game for that.

The open world nature of AoC means that you will likely have a few of every role present when a raid boss spawns.

daveywavey

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Maybe without a cleric you could not see the bosses HP, bar due to not knowing enough about anatomy. A very interesting concept that I think should be explored by some game. I just am not sure that AoC is going to be the right game for that.

The open world nature of AoC means that you will likely have a few of every role present when a raid boss spawns.

But, if you didn't have that player in your group, then you wouldn't see that info. Only that player's group would.

Interesting idea, I quite like it. I don't know that I'd want to know too much about the boss, but I think it could be quite cool.

Squeezy

Vhaeyne wrote: »

@Squeezy, This would not be a bad idea for a game with instanced bosses. I actually think it would be sweet to have multiple flavors of slippy from star fox in your party that make more information available. For those of you not in the know, you can't see the bosses HP bar in starfox 64 without slippy. Maybe without a cleric you could not see the bosses HP, bar due to not knowing enough about anatomy. A very interesting concept that I think should be explored by some game. I just am not sure that AoC is going to be the right game for that.

The open world nature of AoC means that you will likely have a few of every role present when a raid boss spawns.

Right and with every roll present, the raid team would be able to gather a comprehensive analysis on what the bosses abilities are or what its weaknesses are etc. The class distribution of utility is just an example it can be made in everyway. The main point is to keep the players in the game and not give them a need to go out of the game in order to search up a certain bosses mechanics on the wiki.

daveywavey

It'd be even more interesting if the rest of your group couldn't see it, too. Would mean you actually had to communicate better with the rest of your team.

Squeezy

daveywavey wrote: »

It'd be even more interesting if the rest of your group couldn't see it, too. Would mean you actually had to communicate better with the rest of your team.

Potentially, it might also become a nuisance, but overall it would do the trick of people having to communicate, although that issue could be already be solved by the devs in other ways.

mcstackerson

Squeezy wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

It'd be even more interesting if the rest of your group couldn't see it, too. Would mean you actually had to communicate better with the rest of your team.

Potentially, it might also become a nuisance, but overall it would do the trick of people having to communicate, although that issue could be already be solved by the devs in other ways.

Maybe i'm missing something but this seems to just make it easier to get information for a wiki. Why wouldn't you just have people screenshot their info and compile it in a doc or wiki?

On the other side, trial and error seems to be their goal with the current system. They want you to have to figure out the mechanics and how they work during the fight.