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Serious Question

TyVERTTyVERT Member
in General Discussion
People/guilds are going to just meta game and figure out what are the best nodes to max out and level out to have access to the best dungeons with the best loot. Unless it is really balanced very well. What is the counter argument to this theory/question.

Comments

  • KatakKatak Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 2020
    Other people will try to stop them from doing so. There is really no way to stop people from meta-gaming, however, but by being active here on the forums you have plenty of time to educate yourself. There has only been pre-alpha test phases so far, with initial no-NDA Alpha 1 testing beginning April of next year.

    The fact that there are no plans to include an API or modding functionality to the game means that it will be harder for the average Joe to dig into the game mechanics without

    1) reading about them here or on wikis.
    2) learning them for themselves through trial and error.

    It is definitely frustrating to feel disadvantaged due to larger organized groups of players, but I think that lone wolves definitely have more of a chance to become experts in their field here than in many other upcoming games.
  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    My guild will be the counter to the biggest guilds trying to run a monopoly. We will be roaming for world pvp, countering large guilds when they run dungeons. Jacking caravans for supplies and working closely with a select few allies to ensure our numbers are viable to maintain the peace. If you are interested in learning more add me on Discord (Khronus#4299).
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I think it's safe to assume that the majority of players will want a house of some kind, and the majority of guilds will want a guild hall and/or castle. There is not enough space in a single metropolis for that so players will need to spread out. Now if you are a citizen of a node it makes sense to want to have the best node which inevitably means attacking other nodes and destroying them.

    So yes, there may be people who try to metagame the world but they will be up against everyone else who just wants to be on top.
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  • WarthWarth Member, Alpha Two
    Calijun wrote: »
    People/guilds are going to just meta game and figure out what are the best nodes to max out and level out to have access to the best dungeons with the best loot. Unless it is really balanced very well. What is the counter argument to this theory/question.

    A: what is the problem here? @Calijun
    Them leveling the node will give the entire server access to it. It's not like all the content within the node belongs to that guild.
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited November 2020
    Calijun wrote: »
    People/guilds are going to just meta game and figure out what are the best nodes to max out and level out to have access to the best dungeons with the best loot. Unless it is really balanced very well. What is the counter argument to this theory/question.

    No amount of balance will change human nature. Meta will happen because of personal interest and human brain.


    Being sel-interested and having big brains that want to make sense, optimize and order the world around us are the pilars of our specie.
    People do people's things and will optimize things for personal interest and gain.
    Not optimizing things is kinda violent againts human nature.
    Not acknowledging interest in personal empowerment as the main driving force of humans is silly as communism.

    Monkeys will use big brains to get more power fantasy because it feels good. So deeply ingrained in our dna that is unavoidable.

    Having said that, meta gaming will eventually happen. It can be super fun if you give it a try.
    But for balance, I think we should move with human nature, not clash against it.
    My opinion is that developers can, at most, muddy the waters from time with new items and small patches. Searching for perfect and utopic no-meta gameplay can be a chimera like searching for "the perfect balance"

  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Calijun wrote: »
    People/guilds are going to just meta game and figure out what are the best nodes to max out and level out to have access to the best dungeons with the best loot. Unless it is really balanced very well. What is the counter argument to this theory/question.

    Does it need a counter argument? Why would you not want to play the most efficient way you can?
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • VmanGmanVmanGman Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The goal is that the meta will be wide enough and varied enough to where other guilds/people will want other dungeons and gear and will try to take down the existing nodes to open up new opportunities. We’ll see if they manage to accomplish that.
  • TyVERTTyVERT Member
    Thank you so much for the answers! I am new to the forum and i thought i asked a question that baffled me a bit. I just see a problem with monopoly`s even though its unlikely.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The easy part I see is that hopefully the nodes are designed with a rock, paper, scissors approach and orientated to an individuals leaning.

    The complex part will be making each of the various node types sufficiently appealing to divide the community with a reasonable balance.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Calijun wrote: »
    People/guilds are going to just meta game and figure out what are the best nodes to max out and level out to have access to the best dungeons with the best loot. Unless it is really balanced very well. What is the counter argument to this theory/question.

    People are going to endless murder each other in the pursuit of this. That is entire game in a nut shell.
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    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • McShaveMcShave Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 2020
    Where the metropolises (metropoli?) and other nodes are built will depend on the player politics of certain groups and large guilds. The different groups will have different priorities, meaning they will choose the node type that best suits their interests. Node benefits should be unique enough that there won't be a "best one", because best will be personal opinion.

    I wouldn't worry about the dungeon meta, as dungeons are just a place to farm resources. The gear that drops will be just as good as the crafted gear, as mentioned by Steven. The only difference I see for the different dungeon types will be the types of resources you farm from them. As different nodes rise and fall with player politics, different dungeons will spawn and new resources can be farmed.

    We will have to wait and see about the node and dungeon meta, but I'm not worried since there are so many variables and unknowns. Also notice how I use "should" and "would". If there are any issues that arise in the testing phases, Intrepid will take feedback and adjust the game when needed.
  • ariatrasariatras Member, Founder, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    There are a few "solutions" I suppose.
    One make it a very complex system with a lot of variables. I'll name a few from the top of my head. This is nowhere near a comprehensive list, but it gives you an idea of how you could combat meta.

    Population
    Player activity
    Cohesion (how many of the same religion)
    Location
    Resources (rarity, randomised spawn, supply and demand value)
    Ranking

    These values would change dynamically.

    and I am sure you could make a bigger list, and then finally the key component. Have these calculations be done server side. In other words. Hide the specific facets from players. Players will still try and figure it out. But I reckon there will be a lot more theories in this instance.
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  • WarthWarth Member, Alpha Two
    Calijun wrote: »
    Thank you so much for the answers! I am new to the forum and i thought i asked a question that baffled me a bit. I just see a problem with monopoly`s even though its unlikely.

    its not a monopoly. Every player on the server gets access to the content this guild unlocks.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    McShave wrote: »
    Where the metropolises (metropoli?) ...

    Right first time: metropolises.

    ;)
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • LieutenantToastLieutenantToast Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Hiya friends and welcome to the forums OP! I think a few potential "counterarguments" to this could come from the dynamic nature of the node system, and how much effort it would be to coordinate exactly the same results on different servers. For example, if nodes were levelled up in even a slightly different order, the vassal levels would look different meaning significantly different content could be unlocked across a similar area. In addition, there's also the possibility for random world events to occur that might reshape the landscape based on players' success or failure in completing them, again leading to the potential of a very different outcome across the same space.
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  • TyVERTTyVERT Member
    LieutenantToast wrote: »
    Hiya friends and welcome to the forums OP! I think a few potential "counterarguments" to this could come from the dynamic nature of the node system, and how much effort it would be to coordinate exactly the same results on different servers. For example, if nodes were levelled up in even a slightly different order, the vassal levels would look different meaning significantly different content could be unlocked across a similar area. In addition, there's also the possibility for random world events to occur that might reshape the landscape based on players' success or failure in completing them, again leading to the potential of a very different outcome across the same space.
    This by far answers my question thank you so much!
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