Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!

Hello Concerns about Classes/Subclasses

GawdStoneGawdStone Member
edited November 2020 in General Discussion
So me and my brother are definitely interested in Ashes of Creation. But we have some concerns about how Sub classes will work. Like for instance I was to go into the Tank class route then invest into a sub class lets say Paladin would my class then play like a Paladin should play like? Skills Like Heals shields buffs and such? Or would it be more cosmetic?

Comments

  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Classes

    All the we know so far is here. Good question for the stream on the 30th.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • GawdStoneGawdStone Member
    edited November 2020
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Classes

    All the we know so far is here. Good question for the stream on the 30th.

    I see I been mining for information like crazy kind of disheartening when you cant get solid answers. Do you know if the Devs are active on the forums?
  • yeah there is not much information on classes and and sub classes. Some videos go over augmentation which leaves me leery and skeptical on buying this game. They haven't talked a lot about it and is very concerning.
  • ariatrasariatras Member, Founder
    The classes are not fleshed out yet. Which is why finding solid answers is difficult.

    As an example Steven used a Warrior's charge. If that warrior had mage as subclass. His charge would be instant, and maybe end with a stun at the end.

    I'm paraphrasing here, but I think the idea is that minutely changes the nature of spells. I suppose we'll learn a lot more once the NDA lifts and those fortunate enough to have the disposable income to have bought into the very first Alphas will start streaming/producing videos.
    l8im8pj8upjq.gif


  • ariatras wrote: »
    The classes are not fleshed out yet. Which is why finding solid answers is difficult.

    As an example Steven used a Warrior's charge. If that warrior had mage as subclass. His charge would be instant, and maybe end with a stun at the end.

    I'm paraphrasing here, but I think the idea is that minutely changes the nature of spells. I suppose we'll learn a lot more once the NDA lifts and those fortunate enough to have the disposable income to have bought into the very first Alphas will start streaming/producing videos.

    So basically id be a kind of Paladin lol :P Sorry I know we still have time to wait to have any idea what is going on with such a huge selection of sub classes but being sort of a Paladin but not a Paladin seems odd to me.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    ariatras wrote: »
    The classes are not fleshed out yet. Which is why finding solid answers is difficult.

    As an example Steven used a Warrior's charge. If that warrior had mage as subclass. His charge would be instant, and maybe end with a stun at the end.

    I'm paraphrasing here, but I think the idea is that minutely changes the nature of spells. I suppose we'll learn a lot more once the NDA lifts and those fortunate enough to have the disposable income to have bought into the very first Alphas will start streaming/producing videos.

    This. This is why you can't find solid answers. Project is still pre-alpha..
    We will find out more next year.
    Unfortunately nobody out side of Intrepid really knows. There is a lot of speculation but that is all at this point.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • From what its looking like there really not sub classes but augments with false advertising of 64 classes. Archeage has a better sub class system. Sorry for being straight forward.
  • TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited November 2020
    GawdStone wrote: »
    ariatras wrote: »
    The classes are not fleshed out yet. Which is why finding solid answers is difficult.

    As an example Steven used a Warrior's charge. If that warrior had mage as subclass. His charge would be instant, and maybe end with a stun at the end.

    I'm paraphrasing here, but I think the idea is that minutely changes the nature of spells. I suppose we'll learn a lot more once the NDA lifts and those fortunate enough to have the disposable income to have bought into the very first Alphas will start streaming/producing videos.

    So basically id be a kind of Paladin lol :P Sorry I know we still have time to wait to have any idea what is going on with such a huge selection of sub classes but being sort of a Paladin but not a Paladin seems odd to me.

    You'll be a Tank with Cleric Augments. You don't get any new abilities from your secondary archetype, you only get abilities from your primary. Each Archetype has 4 augment schools. For example, Cleric may have Life, Death, Protection, Nature. So as your primary is Tank, every one of your spells will be a tank spell. Tanks may have a Shield Bash move. If you went Tank + Cleric, you might augment that Shield Bash with Death augment that the Cleric Secondary gives, this may apply a DoT on the enemy. Maybe you have a Taunt that when you apply the Protection augment to it, it may give you a shield when you use Taunt.

    We know next to nothing about specific augments and probably won't for over a year until A2 starts.
    Hawkumara wrote: »
    From what its looking like there really not sub classes but augments with false advertising of 64 classes. Archeage has a better sub class system. Sorry for being straight forward.

    Hard disagree. While ArcheAge is my favourite MMORPG of all time, its class system left a lot to be desired. It was literally just Class + Class + Class, giving you the choice of abilities from each of the classes you picked. Nothing special or unique about it, relatively boring actually.
    nI17Ea4.png
  • GawdStoneGawdStone Member
    edited November 2020
    Talents wrote: »
    GawdStone wrote: »
    ariatras wrote: »
    The classes are not fleshed out yet. Which is why finding solid answers is difficult.

    As an example Steven used a Warrior's charge. If that warrior had mage as subclass. His charge would be instant, and maybe end with a stun at the end.

    I'm paraphrasing here, but I think the idea is that minutely changes the nature of spells. I suppose we'll learn a lot more once the NDA lifts and those fortunate enough to have the disposable income to have bought into the very first Alphas will start streaming/producing videos.

    So basically id be a kind of Paladin lol :P Sorry I know we still have time to wait to have any idea what is going on with such a huge selection of sub classes but being sort of a Paladin but not a Paladin seems odd to me.

    You'll be a Tank with Cleric Augments. You don't get any new abilities from your secondary archetype, you only get abilities from your primary. Each Archetype has 4 augment schools. For example, Cleric may have Life, Death, Protection, Nature. So as your primary is Tank, every one of your spells will be a tank spell. Tanks may have a Shield Bash move. If you went Tank + Cleric, you might augment that Shield Bash with Death augment that the Cleric Secondary gives, this may apply a DoT on the enemy. Maybe you have a Taunt that when you apply the Protection augment to it, it may give you a shield when you use Taunt.

    We know next to nothing about specific augments and probably won't for over a year until A2 starts.
    Talents wrote: »
    GawdStone wrote: »
    ariatras wrote: »
    The classes are not fleshed out yet. Which is why finding solid answers is difficult.

    As an example Steven used a Warrior's charge. If that warrior had mage as subclass. His charge would be instant, and maybe end with a stun at the end.

    I'm paraphrasing here, but I think the idea is that minutely changes the nature of spells. I suppose we'll learn a lot more once the NDA lifts and those fortunate enough to have the disposable income to have bought into the very first Alphas will start streaming/producing videos.

    So basically id be a kind of Paladin lol :P Sorry I know we still have time to wait to have any idea what is going on with such a huge selection of sub classes but being sort of a Paladin but not a Paladin seems odd to me.

    You'll be a Tank with Cleric Augments. You don't get any new abilities from your secondary archetype, you only get abilities from your primary. Each Archetype has 4 augment schools. For example, Cleric may have Life, Death, Protection, Nature. So as your primary is Tank, every one of your spells will be a tank spell. Tanks may have a Shield Bash move. If you went Tank + Cleric, you might augment that Shield Bash with Death augment that the Cleric Secondary gives, this may apply a DoT on the enemy. Maybe you have a Taunt that when you apply the Protection augment to it, it may give you a shield when you use Taunt.

    We know next to nothing about specific augments and probably won't for over a year until A2 starts.

    Yeah not getting abilities or traits from the Cleric Subclass to me is very concerning. The augment system sounds cool and all but instead of calling them Subclasses might as well say your getting augments from the Cleric schools. Advertising 64 different classes and not getting Skills from that type of class is not sub classing at all also games like D&D and such followed Sub Classes to a T. Buffing a Skill with different abilities is also not Sub Classing it is enhancements.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    It is for sure not purely cosmetic.
    I would imagine in the case of paladin, you might get some healing effects augmented into your existing kit.

    "We're not really talking about 64 true classes, we're talking about eight classes with 64 variants... There isn't as much variance between the 64 classes as you might expect. It's not like there are you know 64 different versions of... radically different classes."– Jeffrey Bard

    Both ArcheAge and Lineage2 had like a billion classes, and they were are just slight changes to a baseline kit, I would speculate that the differences between the subclasses will be more like that than something like Specs in WOW.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • Gawdstone makes A point.

  • Vhaeyne wrote: »
    It is for sure not purely cosmetic.
    I would imagine in the case of paladin, you might get some healing effects augmented into your existing kit.

    "We're not really talking about 64 true classes, we're talking about eight classes with 64 variants... There isn't as much variance between the 64 classes as you might expect. It's not like there are you know 64 different versions of... radically different classes."– Jeffrey Bard

    Both ArcheAge and Lineage2 had like a billion classes, and they were are just slight changes to a baseline kit, I would speculate that the differences between the subclasses will be more like that than something like Specs in WOW.

    This game has a lot of potential but the way they are doing the classes leaves me on the fence.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Hawkumara wrote: »
    This game has a lot of potential but the way they are doing the classes leaves me on the fence.
    What specifically do you expect that you don't think AOC will provide?
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • Vhaeyne wrote: »
    It is for sure not purely cosmetic.
    I would imagine in the case of paladin, you might get some healing effects augmented into your existing kit.

    "We're not really talking about 64 true classes, we're talking about eight classes with 64 variants... There isn't as much variance between the 64 classes as you might expect. It's not like there are you know 64 different versions of... radically different classes."– Jeffrey Bard

    Both ArcheAge and Lineage2 had like a billion classes, and they were are just slight changes to a baseline kit, I would speculate that the differences between the subclasses will be more like that than something like Specs in WOW.

    I see what you mean and like most of what you are saying but I also have to add Sub Classing is a combination of both style of classes together giving you 2 different play styles if not more and tons of possibilities. If you put up Tank can sub class into a Cleric and become a Paladin Sub type it should feel and play like a Paladin that is my whole point here. If not then they shouldn't call it a Paladin class.
  • People who play D&D and know how these classes should be played and portrayed will be disappointed with how the company doing sub classing. They will most likely lose a lot of fan base when the players reach level 25 and they realize the game isn't what they thought it would be.
  • TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited November 2020
    Hawkumara wrote: »
    People who play D&D and know how these classes should be played and portrayed will be disappointed with how the company doing sub classing. They will most likely lose a lot of fan base when the players reach level 25 and they realize the game isn't what they thought it would be.

    People who do zero research before starting a game deserve to be disappointed. I put them on the same level as people who will inevitably start Ashes only to realise it's always on PvP and then cry about how PvP should be toggleable or a PvE server should be a thing.
    nI17Ea4.png
  • GawdStoneGawdStone Member
    edited November 2020
    Talents wrote: »
    Hawkumara wrote: »
    People who play D&D and know how these classes should be played and portrayed will be disappointed with how the company doing sub classing. They will most likely lose a lot of fan base when the players reach level 25 and they realize the game isn't what they thought it would be.

    People who do zero research before starting a game deserve to be disappointed. I put them on the same level as people who will inevitably start Ashes only to realise it's always on PvP and then cry about how PvP should be toggleable or a PvE server should be a thing.
    Talents wrote: »
    Hawkumara wrote: »
    People who play D&D and know how these classes should be played and portrayed will be disappointed with how the company doing sub classing. They will most likely lose a lot of fan base when the players reach level 25 and they realize the game isn't what they thought it would be.

    People who do zero research before starting a game deserve to be disappointed. I put them on the same level as people who will inevitably start Ashes only to realise it's always on PvP and then cry about how PvP should be toggleable or a PvE server should be a thing.

    Reason why I am asking around trying to keep informed about the game because I love the ideas. Not so much on the So called Sub Classing idea. But they are trying to be unique and will try to keep my mind open as development continues and we see solid information. I for one do not mind PvP I used to play UO when I was a kid which has PKing and loot drop which was pretty hardcore.
  • Talents wrote: »
    Hawkumara wrote: »
    People who play D&D and know how these classes should be played and portrayed will be disappointed with how the company doing sub classing. They will most likely lose a lot of fan base when the players reach level 25 and they realize the game isn't what they thought it would be.

    People who do zero research before starting a game deserve to be disappointed. I put them on the same level as people who will inevitably start Ashes only to realise it's always on PvP and then cry about how PvP should be toggleable or a PvE server should be a thing.

    Been watching Videos on this and is why i decided to join the forums to get more info. I will probably wait until the game comes out before i decide. I have no problems with Pvp because that what i normally played for years.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Hawkumara wrote: »
    People who play D&D and know how these classes should be played and portrayed will be disappointed with how the company doing sub classing. They will most likely lose a lot of fan base when the players reach level 25 and they realize the game isn't what they thought it would be.

    You are in good company, I am a big D&D guy myself. I would ask you to consider this. Even within D&D there is no set class fantasy. Play a wizard in Darksun vs Ebberon. There is a drastic difference in class fantasy between those two campaigns.

    Another point is that sub classing has been a big part of D&D for a long time. Back in 3.5E I don't think anyone I knew rolled a pure anything ever. It was all multiclassing to get a character more like what you want your guy to be like.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    While I cannot speak for Intrepid on this matter I would like to reiterate what others have said. The game is still very early on in development and we have yet to see all all the base classes let alone any of the augments from secondary classes.

    My advice to everyone is not to get too hung up on the names of the subclasses and instead think of them as various flavours of the base archetypes. keep an open mind and wait until the full scope of the class system is revealed before judging it too heavily.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • GawdStone wrote: »
    Not so much on the So called Sub Classing idea.

    First thing to understand is that they're not "sub-classes". The combination of both archetypes is your "class". The Secondary is not meant to increase the number of skills, only adapt them to a particular playstyle. If you roll a Tank as a Primary, you will always be a Tank, but you'll get the option to further define what kind of Tank you want to be based on your Secondary. There is likely to be some sort of process involved for when you want to change up your Secondary. But you'll still be a Tank as that's your Primary archetype.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • Hawkumara wrote: »
    yeah there is not much information on classes and and sub classes. Some videos go over augmentation which leaves me leery and skeptical on buying this game. They haven't talked a lot about it and is very concerning.

    this game is still n alpha and a possible 2+ years out from completion
    854168_cannonbreed_dark-souls-bonfire.gif?f1553090073
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I think an Ashes Paladin will not play like a typical Paladin.
    A Paladin still uses Tank abilities. Those Tank abilities have Cleric augments applied on top of them.
    So, there will be some form of heals available to a Paladin layered on top of the Tank abilities, but we don't know the details. For all we know, Paladins may only be able to self-heal. Or may only be able to single-target heal.
  • .
    Hawkumara wrote: »
    People who play D&D and know how these classes should be played and portrayed will be disappointed with how the company doing sub classing. They will most likely lose a lot of fan base when the players reach level 25 and they realize the game isn't what they thought it would be.

    Many fantasy IPs take common themes and archetypes and add their own spin to them to suit their universe/lore. This is normal.

    A paladin in AoC is what the AoC lore says it is. I'd expect some thematic similarities to what people are used to but also some differences.
Sign In or Register to comment.