In game Word Processing/Spreadsheet

I'd love to have an option in the in game UI to open a Word Processor/Notepad or a Spreadsheet. The only mmorpg I've ever seen with this functionality was Eve, and it was extremely useful. Not everyone keeps notes about stuff they do in game, but most of the website people get advice from were made by people who do. And some of us like this. Adding this won't hurt you people who don't like this idea.

Most of the time I have to alt-tab out of the game to keep notes. I'd like to be able to do that in game, and save them (maybe they save locally, maybe not). I'd also like the ability to send these through the in game mail system too.

Eve also allowed waypoint hyperlinks and other things to be kept in their word processors/spreadsheets , so you could be standing in a location and make a link for it, and clicking on it later would give you an active waypoint to that location. I think these are very useful addons to the game.

Artisan's would probably get a lot of use out of this feature too.

What do people think?

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BobzUrUncle

But why? What is wrong with using your computer and not putting in things that are already built?

I can just see some fantasy medieval monk walking along. He sees a pretty flower. Pulls out a tablet, takes a picture, looks on the internet and identifies it. Then goes back to walking by a peasant hoeing in the mud. But he doesn't notice the earbuds the peasant is

Yeah. Using a spreadsheet in a fantasy realm doesn't break immersion...

Have you ever thought of how much work it would be to program in your ... ideas on what the developers should do?

apmax

Just like, keep word or excel open while you're running the game.
I don't at all see why it should be part of the game itself when you can simply have multiple programs open at once on your personal computer.

BobzUrUncle

Dang it, hit the wrong button... Please ignore.

Dygz

At least Eve is a sci-fi setting rather than a fantasy setting.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Pannath wrote: »

@Dygz There is literally no harm to YOUR immersion in adding this. Don't use it if you don't like it, ask for the ability to turn off your UI view.

The devs shouldn't waste any time on it.
But...they can if they want to.
I doubt they will want to invite people to break immersion like that, but...maybe.

I specifically remember you being keen on an in game journal suggestion from a few years ago.

That is essentially what this is. It's odd that you aren't so keen on it after people used the terms "word processor" and "spreadsheet", even if these are simply tools that can assist in good journal keeping.

FliP wrote: »

I've seen some stuff happen simply with having a web browser on a game console.

EQ2 has had a web browser built in to the game client for about 15 years now, and has had no exploits because of it.

I'm unsure if you are referring to game console as in the in-game command system that many games have (which is called a console), or actual gaming console hardware such as a PlayStation or Xbox.

If the former, I've never seen any exploints to this end, and would be interested if you could point me in the direction of the game and specific exploit you are talking about, as a good laugh at poor execution is always good. It is also worth noting that of these two things, this is the only one that would apply to adding an in game browser to an MMO client.

If you were referring to consoles as in hardware, that is a totally different thing. Because consoles give software basically bare metal access to hardware, if you give people software that allows them to execute what ever code they want (such as a browser), then yeah, obviously that can be exploited. This is a fact of consoles (previous generation ones, at least) not having the built in security features that PC's and Mac's have from their operating system, because consoles were assumed to be a closed system where general users had no means of running any code other than which was approved.

So yeah, a browser in an MMO is not at all a bad thing, and offers no security threat if the develoeprs do it right.

This would have the advantage of allowing players to browse the games forums from within the game, to access community websites, or even to consume content about the game, from within the game.

There would then also be scope for people like @Jahlon to host google documents (a web browser would cover spreadsheet and word processor) of various popular things on their site for people to use, all while staying in the game. I am sure there are also many other things that various content creators could come up with that would add to the game, and more importantly add to the community.

Dygz

A journal is different than a word-processor/spreadsheet.
I am not interested in writing a journal. I would just record my gameplay and turn that into machinima.
The only type of journal I'd be interested in is one that is created by the game as a summary of experiences characters have. Like as part of a character sheet that other players can read.

I think Landmark did have an in-game twitter interface - which was nice.
But, that wasn't actually immersive narrative gameplay.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

The only type of journal I'd be interested in is one that is created by the game as a summary of experiences characters have.

That sounds incredibly boring.

Caeryl

Noaani wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

The only type of journal I'd be interested in is one that is created by the game as a summary of experiences characters have.

That sounds incredibly boring.

Considering who’s idea it is, are we surprised by it

There’s just no point wasting resources on a journaling system when there’s a better, free option already. Why not keep an actual journal at the desk?

Leiloni

Pannath wrote: »

I'd love to have an option in the in game UI to open a Word Processor/Notepad or a Spreadsheet. The only mmorpg I've ever seen with this functionality was Eve, and it was extremely useful. Not everyone keeps notes about stuff they do in game, but most of the website people get advice from were made by people who do. And some of us like this. Adding this won't hurt you people who don't like this idea.

Most of the time I have to alt-tab out of the game to keep notes. I'd like to be able to do that in game, and save them (maybe they save locally, maybe not). I'd also like the ability to send these through the in game mail system too.

Eve also allowed waypoint hyperlinks and other things to be kept in their word processors/spreadsheets , so you could be standing in a location and make a link for it, and clicking on it later would give you an active waypoint to that location. I think these are very useful addons to the game.

Artisan's would probably get a lot of use out of this feature too.

What do people think?

I think calling it a word processor or spreadsheet scares people away that don't understand the idea. Aion had an in game memo pad with some of these functions and it was insanely useful and everybody used it. People would even share links/text outside of game that you could copy to your in game note pad.

The primary use for it was that it would save map waypoints via links in your note pad (back in the day before rift locations were on the map, you had to save the locations via your in game note pad so you knew where they were, or you might also save world boss spawn locations, or special spawns like Tears of Luck for the Miragent/Fenris quests, etc.).

So you could save important locations in your note pad with the link and a description of the link, and then just click the location in your notepad and it would put an X on your map. You could also use the notepad to copy/paste these links to other players in chat.

You could use it to keep lists/notes for yourself about other stuff as needed, or you could also use it to copy/paste frequently used text into chat. Whatever the hell you wanted it was insanely useful, but also much, much easier and faster to do this stuff in game as opposed to alt tabbing (which is irritating, many people won't want to do, and doesn't work for in game map location saving/sharing most importantly).

And yes it was saved locally, so your note pad was permanent. Every time you logged into your character the same notepad information was there.

The map location saving/sharing feature alone is a massively useful aid in an open world game like this.

Edit: For the people worried about coding exploits, aside from plain text, the only other stuff the Aion notepad could take is in game locations, whose code looks like this or random crap like emotes which look exactly as you'd expect.

Leiloni

FliP wrote: »

I've seen some stuff happen simply with having a web browser on a game console.

One would think, how can someone get root access through a web browser, yet it happened (this is why some modern consoles don't come with a web browser btw).

Chat is different from a word processor, at least the way I picture it. Also, what happens when someone attempts to load a modified text file in the game. There can be protection in place, but people are creative and will find a way to overload or bypass it.

To me it's just too much risk for a slight convenience. BDO has a notes system which barely anyone uses because it's faster to alt-tab into Google Docs than Esc -> find "Notes" in the menu -> click on "Notes" -> wait for it to load.

You can always just have a keybind for your notes. I know BDO didn't really do keybinds which was stupid, but Aion for example you could hit Shift+M for the memo pad by default, but you could also keybind it to anyone else you wanted. Seems far easier than alt tab (especially when, as mentioned above, the notepad could work with in game chat/map systems, which your alt tab programs won't).

FliP

Noaani wrote: »

FliP wrote: »

I've seen some stuff happen simply with having a web browser on a game console.

EQ2 has had a web browser built in to the game client for about 15 years now, and has had no exploits because of it.

I'm unsure if you are referring to game console as in the in-game command system that many games have (which is called a console), or actual gaming console hardware such as a PlayStation or Xbox.

If the former, I've never seen any exploints to this end, and would be interested if you could point me in the direction of the game and specific exploit you are talking about, as a good laugh at poor execution is always good. It is also worth noting that of these two things, this is the only one that would apply to adding an in game browser to an MMO client.

If you were referring to consoles as in hardware, that is a totally different thing. Because consoles give software basically bare metal access to hardware, if you give people software that allows them to execute what ever code they want (such as a browser), then yeah, obviously that can be exploited. This is a fact of consoles (previous generation ones, at least) not having the built in security features that PC's and Mac's have from their operating system, because consoles were assumed to be a closed system where general users had no means of running any code other than which was approved.

I am referring to hardware. Maybe I should have called them "systems" instead of "consoles".

Just to name a few, Playstation Portable used to have a web browser exploit until it was patched with a software upgrade.
Nintendo 3DS has a web browser exploit, I believe Playstation 3 as well (can't confirm as I didn't own nor hacked a PS3).

Not to mention that the 2 consoles, PSP and 3DS, did very poorly in terms on 3rd party support due to said vulnerabilities. 3DS did somewhat better due to own IPs such as Mario and Pokemon, but the PSP did not achieve anything close to its potential.

A web browser, or software for that matter, should not have bare metal access to hardware and they usually don't. There are several access levels and software is getting some of the lowest ones. The highest access levels being the bootloader, NAND and system storage, which is generally what hackers target to modify.

By loading unsigned code through a vulnerable web browser usually allows homebrew and other tools too run on the system, which can then be utilized to gain higher access levels by exploiting other vulnerabilities.

It doesn't mean that not having a web browser will make AoC an exploit-free game, but my opinion, and based on replies in this topic I am not the only one, it's not worth it to introduce potential risk for something non-essential.

Kionashi

as I said....Scribes already will need to be able to write books so a system were people can write in a book will be implemented.....

Dygz

Noaani wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

The only type of journal I'd be interested in is one that is created by the game as a summary of experiences characters have.

That sounds incredibly boring.

Then don't do it.

Noaani

FliP wrote: »

I am referring to hardware. Maybe I should have called them "systems" instead of "consoles".

Calling them consoles is fine, its not your fault that term has been assigned to that one word - at least you clarified when asked.

It doesn't mean that not having a web browser will make AoC an exploit-free game, but my opinion, and based on replies in this topic I am not the only one, it's not worth it to introduce potential risk for something non-essential.

Adding a browser to a game client and using one on a game console are vastly different things.

With consoles, the browser was usually the only way to run non-approved code of any form. In cases where it wasn't the only way, it was still the easiest way (especially if you planned to distribute said code).

With an MMO, you can always run code along side the client - there is no need to use the browser. If an exploit is to be made for the game that uses a browser, it would be able to run in Chrome just as easily as it would be able to be run in any built in browser - this is because there is no need at all to give this browser access to any part of the games code (literally no reason).

As such, a browser built in to a game client is in no way adding to the number of potential exploits a game may have. It isn't reducing it at all either, but it is not adding to it.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

The only type of journal I'd be interested in is one that is created by the game as a summary of experiences characters have.

That sounds incredibly boring.

Then don't do it.

Do you realize how many of your posts this response would be appropriate to?

If you don't like word processors and spreadsheets in the game, don't use them. Adding them would use a fraction of the resources that adding an automated story telling device unique to each character would take (such a system would take years to develop to any acceptable standard).

Dygz

All I said is that I don't think the devs will do it because it breaks immersion.
If they do add them, which is highly unlikely, I won't use them, of course.

Leiloni

Dygz wrote: »

All I said is that I don't think the devs will do it because it breaks immersion.
If they do add them, which is highly unlikely, I won't use them, of course.

It breaks immersion less than your skillbar or quest UI does. It's just another minor UI element but this one at least is one you can choose to not use at all since it's not a necessary function.

Dygz

Dev-created skillbars and quest UI do not break immersion at all.
Spreadsheets would break the fantasy setting for sure. Probably "word processors" would.
A note-taking journal could probably fit the fantasy setting.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Dev-created skillbars and quest UI do not break immersion at all.
Spreadsheets would break the fantasy setting for sure. Probably "word processors" would.
A note-taking journal could probably fit the fantasy setting.

A competent journal in game would be functionally indistinguishable from a word processor,and a spreadsheet and paint like functionality would simply be there to facilitate chart making (all good journals have charts) and picture drawing.

You are literally arguing semantics saying you are for a journal but against a word processor.

Dygz

I don't know that I care whether a journal is "competent".
If it's the equivalent of a txt, fine. If it's the equivalent of a rtf, that's probably not worth the coding effort. And the equivalent of a doc is definitely not worth the coding effort.
Any form of spreadsheet, especially, is not worth the coding effort and is immersion-breaking.
So, while I am literally arguing semantics, I am not colloquially arguing semantics.

Also, I did not say "I am for a (note-taking) journal."
I said a note-taking journal could probably fit the fantasy-setting.

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