Addressing Auto Attacks

Wandering Mist

Steven has made it clear that Ashes won't have an Auto Attack as seen in other mmorpgs. Instead, you will need to press a button each time to swing your weapon. Now, some people have pointed out that doing this means you will likely be spamming a single button a lot during gameplay which can cause muscle fatigue and is generally annoying to do.

Instead, how would you feel about a weapon attack chain instead of single attacks? So you press the "attack" button and it does 3 attacks in sequence then stops until you press the button again.

A system like this would be easier on the fingers and would open up opportunities for the attack sequence to be balanced around the other skills, depending on how it's implemented of course.

What do you all think? Would you be happy with a system like this or would you prefer how the weapon attacks are currently designed?

daveywavey

I'm happy with the 'click-to-attack' thing. Some skills will need to be timed, and if you've just started a multi-swing combo when you need to throw a skill, you're locked out into finishing that combo and you may miss the opportunity.

I imagine that the basic weapon swing won't be nearly as effective as the class skills, so I don't suppose I'll just be sat there mashing the basic weapon swing for too long. I'll be wanting to use my skills, too.

George_Black

I would prefer if single attacks were the way to go during early levels. Also single attacks should offer a bonus effect every 3rd swing, like a bit of MP recovery, or chance to stagger or HP recovery, based on the theme of the archetype.

Then as you lv up abilities should replace normal attacks as a way to deal dmg.

Perhaps there can be a tab function of auto attacking, dealing CONSIDERABLE less dmg and without any bonus, maybe it can even be a separate function all together.

I dont want to see ESOs normal attack or heavy attack at all, that's for sure.

Rayteku

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Instead, how would you feel about a weapon attack chain instead of single attacks? So you press the "attack" button and it does 3 attacks in sequence then stops until you press the button again.

I would be okay with this or a click and hold where you keep attacking while the button is held but make it interruptible for skill use. Just put it in the accessibility options for anyone who wants to use it but not as a default.

SquirrelTeamSix

I don't mind either way, but I enjoyed timing my ability casts with my auto attacks in EQ2. I would like if every third auto did increased damage if you timed it accordingly

Kionashi

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Steven has made it clear that Ashes won't have an Auto Attack as seen in other mmorpgs. Instead, you will need to press a button each time to swing your weapon. Now, some people have pointed out that doing this means you will likely be spamming a single button a lot during gameplay which can cause muscle fatigue and is generally annoying to do.

Instead, how would you feel about a weapon attack chain instead of single attacks? So you press the "attack" button and it does 3 attacks in sequence then stops until you press the button again.

A system like this would be easier on the fingers and would open up opportunities for the attack sequence to be balanced around the other skills, depending on how it's implemented of course.

What do you all think? Would you be happy with a system like this or would you prefer how the weapon attacks are currently designed?

we are talking about filler attacks, unless Intrepid is thinking on having 1 minute cooldowns in your bread and butter skills I don't think we will spend too much time auto attacking anyways....

Vhaeyne

I don't mind it. Auto attacks just end up being free damage you get for facing your target in other MMOS. Basically a free DOT. I am fine constantly clicking. I already do that in every other MMO anyways. Kinda remids me of DDO, it had auto attacks, but I always clicked to attack in DDO, because it felt better.

Cathartidae

It sounded bad to me initially but thinking about it, it doesn't feel like all that much of a problem - already in a lot of games the caster types have to click for every spell cast, as often as more than once a second.

In WoW right now, even the melee classes that still do auto attack damage it accounts for a tiny percentage of their output. Removing autoattacks just feels like formalizing the trend in gameplay that has already happened.

Tyrantor

I've played too many FPS games to be concerned about pushing a button to attack.

Virtek

I would be open to that idea, as long as we can cancel out of the animation when using a skill or jumping.
It would alleviate quite a bit of constant clicking to swing a weapon.

While it may not "feel" that bad to continue clicking for every single attack, Carpal Tunnel is a real thing. Preventing it is much better than recovering if it becomes an issue.
Especially taking into account the long period of time where you shouldn't/can't use a mouse during recovery. I haven't experienced that...and I would thoroughly enjoy keeping it that way, lol.

Marcet

I don't like the autoatacks, specially the AOE arc with every swing, feels too hack&slash. And to your point, it depends on how fast the autoatacks are, a greatsword will not be the same as a dagger.

Dreoh

It's one of those things that sounds like a big deal but in practice isn't really, at least in my experience. I already spam click melee in GW2 which has an auto-attack chain system like you described even though I don't need to just because if I get hit with something that makes me lose target I want to immediately be attacking again.

ESO is an example of a game where nobody complains about having to spam auto-attack.

Magic Man

I'm fine with clicking really. Spamming left click is a lot easier than spamming 'Q' as well. Either way, glad there aren't auto attacks - it's a very outdated mechanic

Dreoh

Magic Man wrote: »

I'm fine with clicking really. Spamming left click is a lot easier than spamming 'Q' imo. Either way, glad there aren't auto attacks - it's a very outdated mechanic

I always remap auto attacks/main attack/melee to mouse 4 which is nice
And the few people I saw stressing about having to press Q to autoattack in this game aren't thinking critically, because it's painfully obvious there's going to be button remapping lol

Khronus

I am a fan of auto attack but at the same time I can see why it is a silly system. Doing damage by just standing around is bad. I would really like to see what the combat would feel like with your suggestion.

One thing to keep in mind, without a dps meter, finding who is pulling their weight will be difficult for most players/raid leaders (which is a great thing). If we are able to build off of a rotation and be able to min/max dps I will be happy with that. I have class officers ready to work with their players to figure out solid rotations and I couldn't be happier with how this game is taking shape!

Caeryl

Clicking is fine. Auto attacking feels very awkward

FliP

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Instead, how would you feel about a weapon attack chain instead of single attacks? So you press the "attack" button and it does 3 attacks in sequence then stops until you press the button again.

Sounds like a macro to me. I don't like macro.

Keep press to attack. Players don't have to spam it and get cramps. They only have to press the key once the attack animation is over. If they spam it and get finger fatigue, it's their faulty playstyle.

Noaani

I don't see why not having auto attack would mean there needs to be a single "attack" hotkey.

When Steven said you need to press a button each time you attack, my take on that was that there is no basic attack at all, not that you had to press a button instead of having an auto attack.

If you have a sword, and you have 12 abilities on your hotbar that are different forms of attacks with said sword, pressing one of these abilities is an attack with your sword. If you want to attack with your sword, you simply use one of these abilities.

Assuming things are balanced for there not being any form of auto attack, I see no reason to think that there needs to be this basic auto attack replacement button.

Wandering Mist

Noaani wrote: »

I don't see why not having auto attack would mean there needs to be a single "attack" hotkey.

When Steven said you need to press a button each time you attack, my take on that was that there is no basic attack at all, not that you had to press a button instead of having an auto attack.

If you have a sword, and you have 12 abilities on your hotbar that are different forms of attacks with said sword, pressing one of these abilities is an attack with your sword. If you want to attack with your sword, you simply use one of these abilities.

Assuming things are balanced for there not being any form of auto attack, I see no reason to think that there needs to be this basic auto attack replacement button.

Except we've seen very clearly that there is a basic weapon attack that can be spammed.

Sathrago

I mean, why not hold down the mouse button to continuously cast the basic attack? It would be a pseudo-auto-attack but require you to be holding the button down, lets just get rid of the repeated clicking required to do it.

This would work like an fps using an automatic weapon, you click for single shots but hold down for multiple shots over time.

Magic Man

Sathrago wrote: »

I mean, why not hold down the mouse button to continuously cast the basic attack? It would be a pseudo-auto-attack but require you to be holding the button down, lets just get rid of the repeated clicking required to do it.

This would work like an fps using an automatic weapon, you click for single shots but hold down for multiple shots over time.

That could be added as an option I guess. Might be good for sword and daggers but for those with slow swing speed like hammers etc, I would probably go with swing per click.

Leiloni

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Steven has made it clear that Ashes won't have an Auto Attack as seen in other mmorpgs. Instead, you will need to press a button each time to swing your weapon. Now, some people have pointed out that doing this means you will likely be spamming a single button a lot during gameplay which can cause muscle fatigue and is generally annoying to do.

Instead, how would you feel about a weapon attack chain instead of single attacks? So you press the "attack" button and it does 3 attacks in sequence then stops until you press the button again.

A system like this would be easier on the fingers and would open up opportunities for the attack sequence to be balanced around the other skills, depending on how it's implemented of course.

What do you all think? Would you be happy with a system like this or would you prefer how the weapon attacks are currently designed?

I think we should wait until the system comes out. A lot of games you barely use your basic/auto attack at all. Both tab target and action games even. If the combat is designed well, you won't need it. TERA had a basic attack that functioned exactly in this manner and it was almost never used by many classes. You had enough other abilities that you never ran out, and it wasn't a game where you needed to "weave" for DPS. SWTOR auto attack I don't even use on any of my classes - if I run out of skills to use there's always one spammable low or no resource ability for classes to use. Just two examples. I know some games use them, but people need to think outside their little 2 game bubbles.

I'd say before people get worried, see how the combat works once it's in a more complete state. If the idea is to create a basic attack instead of an auto attack, I have to imagine they're creating a system where you don't need an auto attack and the basic attack will be little needed.

Virtek wrote: »

I would be open to that idea, as long as we can cancel out of the animation when using a skill or jumping.
It would alleviate quite a bit of constant clicking to swing a weapon.

While it may not "feel" that bad to continue clicking for every single attack, Carpal Tunnel is a real thing. Preventing it is much better than recovering if it becomes an issue.
Especially taking into account the long period of time where you shouldn't/can't use a mouse during recovery. I haven't experienced that...and I would thoroughly enjoy keeping it that way, lol.

While I don't think this game will have such spammy combat, nor do I think we'll need to be spamming any sort of basic or auto attack, I did want to requote this one. If the combat did somehow become so spammy as to risk causing hand pain I'd quit in a millisecond and never look back. I had no hand pain at all until Black Desert came along - and I only played Witch, so not even the spammiest of classes - and got tendonitis in both hands and after nearly a year still dealing with it and unable to fix it on my own, eventually went to a doctor who sent me to an occupational therapist. It's still something I need to manage today so it is no joke. I really hope the devs take this sort of thing into account when designing combat.

Dygz

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Steven has made it clear that Ashes won't have an Auto Attack as seen in other mmorpgs. Instead, you will need to press a button each time to swing your weapon. Now, some people have pointed out that doing this means you will likely be spamming a single button a lot during gameplay which can cause muscle fatigue and is generally annoying to do.

Instead, how would you feel about a weapon attack chain instead of single attacks? So you press the "attack" button and it does 3 attacks in sequence then stops until you press the button again.

What do you all think? Would you be happy with a system like this or would you prefer how the weapon attacks are currently designed?

Advanced weapons have up to 5 Weapon Abilities on them. And completing the chain with the correct timing unleashes an Ultimate Weapon Ability.
So...it is unlikely that people will just be spamming the 1st Weapon Ability in the chain.
So far, we've only seen the bare bones of basic combat.

I click the abilities on my hotbar instead of using numbers. I must have built up those muscles in the last 23 years because I don't get muscle fatigues from that.

Sathrago

Dygz wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Steven has made it clear that Ashes won't have an Auto Attack as seen in other mmorpgs. Instead, you will need to press a button each time to swing your weapon. Now, some people have pointed out that doing this means you will likely be spamming a single button a lot during gameplay which can cause muscle fatigue and is generally annoying to do.

Instead, how would you feel about a weapon attack chain instead of single attacks? So you press the "attack" button and it does 3 attacks in sequence then stops until you press the button again.

What do you all think? Would you be happy with a system like this or would you prefer how the weapon attacks are currently designed?

Advanced weapons have up to 5 Weapon Abilities on them. And completing the chain with the correct timing unleashes an Ultimate Weapon Ability.
So...it is unlikely that people will just be spamming the 1st Weapon Ability in the chain.
So far, we've only seen the bare bones of basic combat.

I click the abilities on my hotbar instead of using numbers. I must have built up those muscles in the last 23 years because I don't get muscle fatigues from that.

can you clarify what you are even talking about here?

voidshadow

I feel like it would depend on how the combat system is fleshed out. And how classes work. Personally, I'm intrigued by the click to auto mechanic if it can blend with combat gameplay appropriately.

Dygz

Sathrago wrote: »

can you clarify what you are even talking about here?

I guess you'll have to ask specific questions about what needs clarification.

sarkado

Having watched a lot of current game play videos, I think many have already stated that the auto attack a good in between filler for you skills. However, I've spent many long nights mindlessly farming mobs for mats in other games to appreciate the ability to Right Click the skill to switch to continuous auto-attack. I think this system could work, buy making the attacks a little bit slower than if one was to spam / cast skills between. I feel that would be a decent balance.

Damokles

Yes, I would be happy with a Guild Wars 2 system.

Nagash

I mean as a summoner I never really "attack" anyway

McShave

What if the weapon attack was like a channeled ability. Click the button once and the player will do a series of weapon attacks like a chained attack that can be stopped anytime by pressing the ability again or casting another ability.

Atama

It’s rare for MMORPGs to have auto-attacks anymore. It’s not necessary and a relic of an older time. I don’t want or expect one in AoC.