Bard combat loop

Bards in games are generally my favorite to play and I noticed on the bard Wiki that bards will be a supportive healer that has engaging abilities which leaves a lot to be explored. I assume certain songs will affect on enemies such as sleeps or slows or even damage reduction.

I personally loved the idea of song weaving in games like Dark age of Camelot where you essentially play a song for the buff then playing another song to start another buff then playing the original song so the buff doesn't fade. This does have the drawback of not allowing you to cast anything outside of those buffs. Archeage fixed this itch for me for allowing you to play all three buffs at once and allowing most of your abilities to be used despite a song playing however these songs lasted much to long and the abilities that weren't allowed during songs made u replay.

My idea for bard was allowing you to only cast certain abilities during the last song played an example.

You play Song A Song B and Song C this grants the buffs of each to your allies but only abilities allowed to be used during Song C can be used.

You play Song C Song B and Song A this grants the buffs of each to your allies but only abilities allowed to be used during Song A can be used.

This combines both the Archeage and DAOC systems and adds a very smooth gameplay loop that has the finesse I would want from a fantasy bard. There could even be abilities that can be used with each song but have different effects. Any suggestions?

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Damokles

Im gonna be real with you here chief. I hope that Bards in Ashes are like Bards in D&D combat wise.
I hate the idea that every bard skill has to be a song or a derivative of one.

Let me yell and scream, shout and intone my litanies if I want to. Not to mention, that playing one song after another would be rather boring. Let people choose if they want to shout small buffs for short durations or sing a song for 15sec for longer buff durations.

Bards should not just stand around and sing a little song while all the others get to fight epic battles! We should stand right between them, sling around words of magic and inspiring shouts, screaming in the face of our enemies, inspire our allies and break the spirit of our competitors.

Bards could be so much more then all the other games made us out to be. More then most bard players even realize we could achieve.

Let us be true Bards. Sing a song, tell our stories, slit some throats. We are troubadours, entertainers, gladiators, musicians and jokesters.
AND IF OUR CROWD WONT SMILE, THEN WE WILL CARVE ONE IN THEIR BLOODY NECKS!
MUAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Vhaeyne

Not gonna play bard most likely, but your idea seems awfully annoying. I want ashes to stay away from ridged play styles and rotations. I also agree with @Damokles, that the D&D interpretation of bard is better suited for an MMO.

Having moves that they can do to add buffs while maintaining normal moves like a regular class is the best approach. Maybe they don't put out the full DPS of a main DPS, but having one buffs the party to the point that it is a slight net gain over just bringing another DPS.

As someone who mains ranged I might play Bowsinger over Hawkeye or Falconer depending on how things play. It is at least on the table for me to want to throw out some buffs while I am shooting mobs. If I have to juggle some annoying buffs while I do so, its going to take me out of it. FFXIVs bard has a three song juggle system that is easy enough, but I can't stand the way it breaks up the pace of dealing damage. Same story with Dancer. Both classes look cool and have a interesting theme, but I wont play them due to the play style being so disconnected. I don't like to have to stop what I am doing to keep reapplying songs or dances.

I also would like to see each archetype have its own buff that its best at. Like Song Warden might have a haste or ranged attack buff, while Soul Weaver has a healing buff. Giving a reason to bring more than one bard into a larger party comp or a specific bard into a party comp.

Leiloni

The wiki has a lot of good information about Intrepid's plan for the Bard class and I suggest reading all of it. It sounds like a great version of Bard to me so I'm looking forward to it.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Bard

Nagash

Everyone one knows D&D bard is best

vicious mockery

Damokles

Nagash wrote: »

Everyone one knows D&D bard is best

vicious mockery

Its always fun to come up with new insults in my D&D campaign. :'D

maouw

Boss: *winding up a giant lazer beam*
Bard: ... hmm... need an insult... *typing* ... no, no... *backspace* ...
Team: WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
Bard: Writer's block. Guys, I can't help it.

Nagash

maouw wrote: »

Boss: *winding up a giant lazer beam*
Bard: ... hmm... need an insult... *typing* ... no, no... *backspace* ...
Team: WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
Bard: Writer's block. Guys, I can't help it.

I need to a comic of this now

Atama

Nagash wrote: »

maouw wrote: »

Boss: *winding up a giant lazer beam*
Bard: ... hmm... need an insult... *typing* ... no, no... *backspace* ...
Team: WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
Bard: Writer's block. Guys, I can't help it.

I need to a comic of this now

The Order of the Stick webcomic had something like this, where the bard had multi-classed to "Dashing Swordsman", a melee fighter class that uses Charisma in place of Strength. He always needed to make puns to be successful in combat.

Here's an example:

BeerMe

I read somewhere that in a different MMO the Bard playstyle utilizing a combo point system(similar to what many Rogue type classes use) and I could see that working. Something like utilizing attacks(ranged or melee depending on archetype) as a combo point builder, then utilizing big finisher abilities that could provide major buffs or debuffs. Finishers could be an ability "Play a chord that increases group critical chance by 30% and an additional 5% per combo point for 10 seconds".

Maybe depending on your secondary archetype the buff will change. If your secondary archetype is Tank maybe you can increase your groups armor rating for a period of time. If your secondary archetype is Rogue maybe you can increase the attack speed of your group for a period of time. I think using the secondary archetype's to provide unique buffs to your group can really make Bard an interesting archetype to play.

Damokles

Atama wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

maouw wrote: »

Boss: *winding up a giant lazer beam*
Bard: ... hmm... need an insult... *typing* ... no, no... *backspace* ...
Team: WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
Bard: Writer's block. Guys, I can't help it.

I need to a comic of this now

The Order of the Stick webcomic had something like this, where the bard had multi-classed to "Dashing Swordsman", a melee fighter class that uses Charisma in place of Strength. He always needed to make puns to be successful in combat.

Here's an example:

I now began to read it....
This hurt my feelings:

Leiloni

BeerMe wrote: »

I read somewhere that in a different MMO the Bard playstyle utilizing a combo point system(similar to what many Rogue type classes use) and I could see that working. Something like utilizing attacks(ranged or melee depending on archetype) as a combo point builder, then utilizing big finisher abilities that could provide major buffs or debuffs. Finishers could be an ability "Play a chord that increases group critical chance by 30% and an additional 5% per combo point for 10 seconds".

Maybe depending on your secondary archetype the buff will change. If your secondary archetype is Tank maybe you can increase your groups armor rating for a period of time. If your secondary archetype is Rogue maybe you can increase the attack speed of your group for a period of time. I think using the secondary archetype's to provide unique buffs to your group can really make Bard an interesting archetype to play.

That's what RIFT's Bard looks like (and it is one of the Rogue classes) and it's a decent take on the traditional Bard. But it still just stands in the back playing an instrument, keeping it's buffs/debuffs/heals up.. yawn. I rather like Intrepid's idea of a more combat focused Bard that's using cool attacks that give buffs, but also running around the battlefield doing different tasks as your team needs and not just standing in one spot doing your same rotation. Reminds me of the style of Aion's Chanter. Hopefully it's similar.

Atama

Damokles wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

maouw wrote: »

Boss: *winding up a giant lazer beam*
Bard: ... hmm... need an insult... *typing* ... no, no... *backspace* ...
Team: WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
Bard: Writer's block. Guys, I can't help it.

I need to a comic of this now

The Order of the Stick webcomic had something like this, where the bard had multi-classed to "Dashing Swordsman", a melee fighter class that uses Charisma in place of Strength. He always needed to make puns to be successful in combat.

Here's an example:

I now began to read it....
This hurt my feelings:

The images aren't showing up for me anymore. Here are links, hopefully they work.

Comic about pun combat.

Bard gets picked last.

I recommend the comic to anyone who is a fan of D&D, or tabletop RPGs in general. (The comic is based on the 3/3.5 ruleset.)

maouw

^ Thanks, I needed those

Sum12hate

What loop? Bard always uses seduce

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