Greetings, glorious testers!
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Ashes of Creations means more than you might think: The need for virtual worlds in dark times.
Greendino
Member
This year has been difficult for everyone. I have spent the majority of it in some form of isolation or quarantine. At first I welcomed it. As an introvert some time away from the grind of daily life, especially as a teacher, was welcome. But after moving to a new city for my spouse's job (work from home) I found myself once again with more time. I tried to return to the joy of games like Warhammer 40k, buying myself a new army and starting to make regular trips to the hobby store. Alas, as cases ramped up in September everything went right back into lockdown. I found myself once again stuck inside with nothing but an internet connection and a beefy computer.
I found some solace as I was finally able to become a substitute teacher and got a couple of weeks of work. Now however, stricter measures mean that is also gone. I say all of this so that you understand when I say I was/am getting increasingly lonely. My spouse is lovely, but one person alone cannot make for good socialization.
So, when I saw a friend playing FFXIV, a game I had played on and off for a while, I jumped back in so I could play with him. As usual for a while it was good, especially with someone to shoot the shit with while playing. Soon enough though I began to feel crushed by the game design and its systems. It wasn’t a world I was playing in. It was a lobby for instanced content strung together with simplistic and meaningless single player content.
I lament the current state of the MMORPG Genre.
I began playing MMORPGs with Star Wars Galaxies in 2003. I was objectively bad at the game. It didn’t matter though because I was able to find my own little place in the world and play as I wanted. It was a world and a community first and foremost. I shunned combat and was primarily a crafter. During this time I also dabbled in Everquest 2 when it released, and quite enjoyed it for what it was. However I didn’t stick with it and returned to SWG. Part of me laments not sticking with Everquest 2 at launch as while it was a more traditional game, the content beyond the opening levels all but required a group. Plus it had an excellent crafting system.
Then when Galaxies was trashed late in 2005 with the NGE, I became aimless. I waited and watched for any new project. From 2006-2014 I tried most major MMO releases, hoping and praying that one of them would properly scratch that itch. I even revisited Everquest 2 around 2009, but by this point the game had been sufficiently WoWiefied that while fun, it had begun to lose that spark. I tried Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, FFXIV 1.0, Aion, The Old Republic, and even Wildstar. I also tried EvE but, uh, it’s not the most interesting game moment to moment, even if it ticks all my other boxes. A similar problem with Old School Runescape.
They all failed in the same way. A non existent player economy, horrible crafting systems, a hollow world that was completely soloable, lack of community, etc. Every game just felt like a slightly changed version of WoW. So I largely gave up on the genre as mediocre. I played FFXIV again when Heavensward was the big thing, and have played through each expansion for a month or two. To my horror however, when Stormblood came around things were streamlined, and once challenging content was made mundane and simple stupid. While I like FFXIV for what it is, it is not a good world nor does it encourage community.
I say all of this because the experiences I had in Star Wars Galaxies and to a lesser extent original Everquest 2 are precisely what I want, no need, right now. Organic social interactions of all types. A world which encourages that. A place I could go and feel a part of a community. People I can help in one way or another. A world that I could be apart of and exist in because the real world is far to fucking dangerous to exist in right now. An MMORPG that was entertaining to play and provided that sense of community
As of now, January 14th 2021, there truly is not a game that meets that need. At least not for me. I am happy for anyone who has found it in another game.
It was at this state of despair and frustration that I did another round of current MMORPG projects. Chronicles of Elyria was a scam. Pantheon continues to make small amounts of progress, and I fear it won’t materialize. New World is mediocre, and there hasn’t been a project that truly captured my attention.
Until I saw the videos on Ashes of Creation. Specifically Lazy Peon’s and others videos from the summer.
This game seems to be precisely what I am looking for in an MMORPG. A world first. Organically shaped by the players. Multiple ways to play and exist in this world. PvE, PvP, crafting, trading, politics, and more. An interesting and flexible class system. The need to specialize. Actual danger. No insta que dungeon garbage. True and proper exploration due to the node system. THE NODE SYSTEM. Design that encourages player interaction at all levels of play. Having the towns and villages being essentially created and maintained by player action is a stroke of genius.
For so long the only way that it felt like you were able to get any sense of community in an MMORPG was through guilds. I like guilds, but I prefer to make my connections in game and let it grow from there, up to and including joining guilds. Just the very fact that becoming a part of a community is as simple as developing a node and becoming a citizen is exactly the kind of system needed to foster community and social bonds. MMORPGs used to be famous for being able to create real long lasting bonds that translated into real life. It has been many many years since I have heard a news story about a marriage that started by meeting an MMORPG. There are many good reasons for that. MMORPGS used to be about the creation of a society in virtual space, with its own social norms, customs, and culture. Now modern MMORPGs are all about running through instanced content served at a buffet. MMORPGs have lost the sociological aspect to them that made them so great in the first place.
So, I want to hope. Oh god, I want to hope. From what I have seen this game could truly be the next generation MMORPG. A true successor to the legacies of Star Wars Galaxies, Everquest (1 and 2), Ultima, Lineage, and all the others. If done right this game could show the world once again that massive player driven stories can be something that happens outside of EvE. In interviews Steven Sharif has described the MMORPG player as an abused dog, timidly approaching every new game only to get kicked and beat again and again. This really is how it has felt for the past decades, and why I had given up on the genre for so long.
Part of me, especially with my current idleness, wants to do something to help this project succeed. I am no programmer, that would be my spouse, nor am I a game designer. I am simply a teacher who also holds a Sociology degree. I’m too buried in student debt to justify buying my way into alpha testing. I salute everyone who is playing through the alpha tests, and I thank all the developers working to see this game become a reality. If it succeeds, and I am increasingly thinking it might just, this game might just be genre defining. This game might finally provide what I think so many, myself included, need a want. A real, living, vibrant community to be apart of. Especially in this time of quarantines and lock downs having a real proper community driven MMORPG could be such a blessing to so many isolated people. I know that it would help my own metal health immensely.
I wish that I could help. But I say godspeed and cheerio to those that are. Lets make this the best fucking MMORPG, and bring some dignity back to the genre.
I found some solace as I was finally able to become a substitute teacher and got a couple of weeks of work. Now however, stricter measures mean that is also gone. I say all of this so that you understand when I say I was/am getting increasingly lonely. My spouse is lovely, but one person alone cannot make for good socialization.
So, when I saw a friend playing FFXIV, a game I had played on and off for a while, I jumped back in so I could play with him. As usual for a while it was good, especially with someone to shoot the shit with while playing. Soon enough though I began to feel crushed by the game design and its systems. It wasn’t a world I was playing in. It was a lobby for instanced content strung together with simplistic and meaningless single player content.
I lament the current state of the MMORPG Genre.
I began playing MMORPGs with Star Wars Galaxies in 2003. I was objectively bad at the game. It didn’t matter though because I was able to find my own little place in the world and play as I wanted. It was a world and a community first and foremost. I shunned combat and was primarily a crafter. During this time I also dabbled in Everquest 2 when it released, and quite enjoyed it for what it was. However I didn’t stick with it and returned to SWG. Part of me laments not sticking with Everquest 2 at launch as while it was a more traditional game, the content beyond the opening levels all but required a group. Plus it had an excellent crafting system.
Then when Galaxies was trashed late in 2005 with the NGE, I became aimless. I waited and watched for any new project. From 2006-2014 I tried most major MMO releases, hoping and praying that one of them would properly scratch that itch. I even revisited Everquest 2 around 2009, but by this point the game had been sufficiently WoWiefied that while fun, it had begun to lose that spark. I tried Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, FFXIV 1.0, Aion, The Old Republic, and even Wildstar. I also tried EvE but, uh, it’s not the most interesting game moment to moment, even if it ticks all my other boxes. A similar problem with Old School Runescape.
They all failed in the same way. A non existent player economy, horrible crafting systems, a hollow world that was completely soloable, lack of community, etc. Every game just felt like a slightly changed version of WoW. So I largely gave up on the genre as mediocre. I played FFXIV again when Heavensward was the big thing, and have played through each expansion for a month or two. To my horror however, when Stormblood came around things were streamlined, and once challenging content was made mundane and simple stupid. While I like FFXIV for what it is, it is not a good world nor does it encourage community.
I say all of this because the experiences I had in Star Wars Galaxies and to a lesser extent original Everquest 2 are precisely what I want, no need, right now. Organic social interactions of all types. A world which encourages that. A place I could go and feel a part of a community. People I can help in one way or another. A world that I could be apart of and exist in because the real world is far to fucking dangerous to exist in right now. An MMORPG that was entertaining to play and provided that sense of community
As of now, January 14th 2021, there truly is not a game that meets that need. At least not for me. I am happy for anyone who has found it in another game.
It was at this state of despair and frustration that I did another round of current MMORPG projects. Chronicles of Elyria was a scam. Pantheon continues to make small amounts of progress, and I fear it won’t materialize. New World is mediocre, and there hasn’t been a project that truly captured my attention.
Until I saw the videos on Ashes of Creation. Specifically Lazy Peon’s and others videos from the summer.
This game seems to be precisely what I am looking for in an MMORPG. A world first. Organically shaped by the players. Multiple ways to play and exist in this world. PvE, PvP, crafting, trading, politics, and more. An interesting and flexible class system. The need to specialize. Actual danger. No insta que dungeon garbage. True and proper exploration due to the node system. THE NODE SYSTEM. Design that encourages player interaction at all levels of play. Having the towns and villages being essentially created and maintained by player action is a stroke of genius.
For so long the only way that it felt like you were able to get any sense of community in an MMORPG was through guilds. I like guilds, but I prefer to make my connections in game and let it grow from there, up to and including joining guilds. Just the very fact that becoming a part of a community is as simple as developing a node and becoming a citizen is exactly the kind of system needed to foster community and social bonds. MMORPGs used to be famous for being able to create real long lasting bonds that translated into real life. It has been many many years since I have heard a news story about a marriage that started by meeting an MMORPG. There are many good reasons for that. MMORPGS used to be about the creation of a society in virtual space, with its own social norms, customs, and culture. Now modern MMORPGs are all about running through instanced content served at a buffet. MMORPGs have lost the sociological aspect to them that made them so great in the first place.
So, I want to hope. Oh god, I want to hope. From what I have seen this game could truly be the next generation MMORPG. A true successor to the legacies of Star Wars Galaxies, Everquest (1 and 2), Ultima, Lineage, and all the others. If done right this game could show the world once again that massive player driven stories can be something that happens outside of EvE. In interviews Steven Sharif has described the MMORPG player as an abused dog, timidly approaching every new game only to get kicked and beat again and again. This really is how it has felt for the past decades, and why I had given up on the genre for so long.
Part of me, especially with my current idleness, wants to do something to help this project succeed. I am no programmer, that would be my spouse, nor am I a game designer. I am simply a teacher who also holds a Sociology degree. I’m too buried in student debt to justify buying my way into alpha testing. I salute everyone who is playing through the alpha tests, and I thank all the developers working to see this game become a reality. If it succeeds, and I am increasingly thinking it might just, this game might just be genre defining. This game might finally provide what I think so many, myself included, need a want. A real, living, vibrant community to be apart of. Especially in this time of quarantines and lock downs having a real proper community driven MMORPG could be such a blessing to so many isolated people. I know that it would help my own metal health immensely.
I wish that I could help. But I say godspeed and cheerio to those that are. Lets make this the best fucking MMORPG, and bring some dignity back to the genre.
9
Comments
If you have a lot of time on your hands maybe try to pick up a game engine and see what you can make. There are plenty of tutorials online to help you out. Not sure where you are located but they have been hiring junior designers and if memory serves, they aren't looking for professional experience for that role. They are more looking for people who take initiative and have tried to create games.
I agree with what you said about guilds and the node system. In other games that have had territory systems, there is usually a lot of fun to be had with the politics of controlling those territories but that experience is usually locked to guilds. I saw the node system as a creative way of sharing the player politics experience with everyone.
The Combat Upgrade Alpha never happened. It started as a private forum where we collaborated with developers on their plans, giving feedback, and waited until they had servers ready for us to test on. After a while, communication with the developers stopped, and we were in the dark, then out of nowhere the NGE was released without our input or knowledge. I really felt betrayed that they did that without letting the community know, and they even said that it was done with our help (the community representatives) which was frankly a lie, and made us look bad in the process. So I quit SWG, after SOE destroyed our game.
I haven't seen a game that seemed like it might capture some of that feeling until Ashes of Creation. Even the node system vaguely reminds me of the times in SWG when they had game-wide events that would help shape the story of the game (though the AoC system will have that as an integrated part of gameplay rather than a rare event). I also like the way that PvE and PvP mixes, which reminds me of how the Galactic Civil War was present in SWG in everything you did. The conflicts between Rebs and Imps was a big thing that sometimes was really personal between guilds, or even between players (to this day I still remember some of my "enemies" in SWG on the other side), and I see that spirit continuing here. SWG allowed you to capture, raise, and train pets and mounts (that you can use yourself or trade), and at least some of that will be seen in this game (in mount breeding). And finally, and most importantly, being able to develop player cities that you are invested in, to make your own community within the game, I really miss that from SWG. I think we will get that and much more in AoC.
In many ways I see this game as the spiritual successor to SWG. Not as far as the game system itself (SWG was a skill/profession system with no levels or classes), but in the goals, spirit, and many available activities you will be able to do. I think you will really love this game if it lives up to all of its goals, as would any old school SWG expatriate.
I thought I would find many refugees from the SWG diaspora here.I too felt such betrayal when the NGE hit and everything changed so quickly. Levels, starter jedi, borked crafting. I was but a child when that game was devastated. Make no mistake, the game had issues and did need changes, but they went the route of copying WoW. They did the same with Everquest 2 as well.
To this day I have not found a game where you can just be a non combat player and have a full experience. From what I see Ashes might just be that game.
@daveywavey
I've touched on the emulators before, but it never felt quite right. Thank you though.
July 2020, I was in a state where I actually gave up on the dream of a real MMO. My game plan was to hop on WOW/FFXIV when a new raid comes out, slam it down like a shot of tequila, then use the buzz from that to get on a crowfall or path of exile binder for three months. To simulate a real MMO. The problem with that plan is that the community is never there. I might meet some people occasionally that way, but it would never be that sense of community Lineage 2, DDO, or FFXI had for me.
I did not even believe thelazypeons video when I first seen. I had heard this before. I just came from Darkfall:New Dawn, Lineage2 :Classic, and ArcheAge: Unchained being massive let downs. It took multiple interviews where Steven basically explained all of the same problems I have with current MMOs, and the knowledge that he is risking a cool 40mil on this to convince me to get hyped.
Sure, I backed Crowfall, Pantheon, and Dual Universe. I don't think it is a great idea to put all of your eggs in one basket, and I know I am going to at least try those games. I have not spent any time on there forums. I just don't think any of them are as important as AOC, because AOC channels a lot of what I liked about Lineage 2, EVE, and SWG.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
I sincerely hope this is just what the genre needs. Community must be part of any good MMO game design.