PVP-Worries / Hopes / Ideas

Hello !
There is really one thing I fear about this game. So, it's an open PVP-World, right ? Or almost..
1. Does that mean, that I can get attacked at any time ?
2. If so, can Lev. 50 players attack Lev. 10 players ? I really hope not.
3. Is there a chance to disable the PVP-Mode ? For example, players who want PVP in the
open world flag themselves as PVP, and players who don't want that flag themselves as non-PVP.

I like to explore the world, get into the story, craft and twink the most. I really wouldn't enjoy to
get attacked by other players all the time. 😉

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FrenchTomahawk

As far as we have been told PVP will be enabled at all times in the open world. Does that mean PVP will be active in cities or the starting zones, dungeons and raids. Who knows and I think probably not, but the devs have spoken about the anti griefing system or player flagging system to deter players from straight up murder. It has been outlined here: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_flagging

From what I've gathered, if someone kills you and you are a non-combatant, you won't lose much, but they will incur much more severe penalties, which for most players will mean you won't be getting killed for no reason. However if someone does or says something that really rubs you the wrong way, the always enabled PVP system will allow you to take matters into your own hands if you are okay with being set back some.

McMackMuck

There are very few places you can't be PvP attacked. Housing and some dungeons are instanced. I think that's it. That might worry you, but the reality shouldn't be as bad as that...

I really recommend having a look at the player corruption mechanics.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Corruption
- same page as linked by @FrenchTomahawk , DOH!
https://www.ashes101.com/pvp
- scroll down to PvP flagging
- there is also a video explaining corruption in the above ashes101 website.

TL;DR? The Corruption mechanic is intended to be a pain in the butt for PvP repeat offenders. They have to decide if killing a non-PvP flagged player is worth the hassle.

Noaani

1, yes.
2, yes.
3, no.

There is a penalty for players attacking you if they kill you without you fighting back. This is not going to prevent people from attacking you on all occasions, but it will prevent it fairly often.

Also, the lower your level in comparison to a would be attacker, the greater the penalty they will suffer.

BigPapa1

PvP being opt-in never works. It's either on all the time, or don't even bother. Unless there's a specific PvE servers where PvP is opt-in, that is. However, this game is built around the node system and PvP is a central part of the game, so I don't know if PvE servers would work as well as in games like WoW where the focus is mostly PvE/raiding.

Warth

Rachel135 wrote: »

Hello !
There is really one thing I fear about this game. So, it's an open PVP-World, right ? Or almost..
1. Does that mean, that I can get attacked at any time ?
2. If so, can Lev. 50 players attack Lev. 10 players ? I really hope not.
3. Is there a chance to disable the PVP-Mode ? For example, players who want PVP in the
open world flag themselves as PVP, and players who don't want that flag themselves as non-PVP.

I like to explore the world, get into the story, craft and twink the most. I really wouldn't enjoy to
get attacked by other players all the time. 😉

1. yes
2. yes
3. no

The wiki has a lot of information about the systems, that are supposed to reduce non-consensual murderhoboing.

Rachel135

Thank you for your answers. So I hope there are not to many corrupt players outthere 😅

Blandmarrow

The corruption system will make griefing very unlikely since the players that partake in it will literally lose equipped gear, which is not worth for what they get out of it. Unless you really made them hate you, then they might kill you regardless.

Jeetoph

I'm a heavy PvE player myself and never bothered to do PvP in other games because there was no real purpose to it except for gearing up or other flashy PvP exclusive rewards. However it looks like PvP and PvE are directly linked in AoC since your city's influence unlocks PvE content like dungeons and Raids. I am actually very hyped and will do my part in PvP too.

The only open question mark for me are : Can corrupt players just logout and reconnect with an alt ?

daveywavey

Jeetoph wrote: »

The only open question mark for me are : Can corrupt players just logout and reconnect with an alt ?

I don't see why they couldn't. But, they'd have to deal with the Corruption when they next logged in to that character.

McMackMuck

@Jeetoph
Corrupt characters have a 60 second timer before they can log out, as seen in the wiki linked above.
They can reconnect with an alt, but the alt has the same issue, if it gets corruption then it needs to grind mobs to clear all the EXP debt, clear the PvP penalties and be able to level up. Removing corruption is intended to be a significant time investment with the added jeopardy of trying to avoid being killed and the chance of dropping precious gear (which increases with the level of corruption).

Basically PvP kills on greens (main character or alts) stops you from levelling until you clear away the EXP debt. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time!

Maybe a PvP green killer will give all their gear to a trusted player and then get killed many times over until the corruption is just replaced by an EXP debt from dying. We haven't been given the exact details yet, but I imagine that Intrepid will remove any and all loopholes so the overall penalty is still tough to recover from.

Jeetoph

Thank you for the clarification ! My question was just out of curiosity. Imo PK'ing greens who are gathering or contributing for their node in any form is sabotaging the progress of said node so strategically speaking I think it's part of the game even if it's a part I probably won't enjoy much myself. Looking at it from that point of view corruption penalty does sound a bit harsh. But I understand there has to be some system in place to prevent abuse and to protect new players as well as those who dislike pvp.

Everdark

I'm going to need to be extremely wealthy to support my level of pettiness in this PvP system....

"What are you doing on my corner peasant!?"

Kaban

McMackMuck wrote: »

@Jeetoph
Maybe a PvP green killer will give all their gear to a trusted player and then get killed many times over until the corruption is just replaced by an EXP debt from dying. We haven't been given the exact details yet, but I imagine that Intrepid will remove any and all loopholes so the overall penalty is still tough to recover from.

That's pretty much how we used to do in L2, there'd always a "stash" character and a few people to scout around to make sure its safe to log back in and transfer equipment to a non-chaotic character and then get that karma reduced by dying.

BigPapa1

In every single game I've played so far, people have found ways to exploit the corruption system to grief. I think Intrepid will find the beta test very useful in this regard to tweak the system.

Warth

BigPapa wrote: »

In every single game I've played so far, people have found ways to exploit the corruption system to grief. I think Intrepid will find the beta test very useful in this regard to tweak the system.

Out of curiosity, do you mind stating the games which had similar system which you played and how they circumvented them? I think that would be much more educational for both the community and the developer @BigPapa

Also, you can't forget, that the system isn't designed to take PKs down to 0, but deter people from doing it until they feel that there is a big enough reward to be gained from the PK.

Warth

Kaban wrote: »

McMackMuck wrote: »

@Jeetoph
Maybe a PvP green killer will give all their gear to a trusted player and then get killed many times over until the corruption is just replaced by an EXP debt from dying. We haven't been given the exact details yet, but I imagine that Intrepid will remove any and all loopholes so the overall penalty is still tough to recover from.

That's pretty much how we used to do in L2, there'd always a "stash" character and a few people to scout around to make sure its safe to log back in and transfer equipment to a non-chaotic character and then get that karma reduced by dying.

While I have been advocating for an mostly non-regulative system all throughtout the development, i personally think, that locking the Equip/having to keep it equipped for the duration of the corruption penalty would be a reasonable change to prevent shenanigans like that. (AKA no equipment swaps when corrupted)

Elo

I hope the skill/stat dampening for corrupt players is significant, at least 25% penalty for initial corruption, 45% for 2nd corruption, etc., so that a green attacking a red, 1 vs 1, will typically give the green a big advantage. I know that while green I will always attack corrupt on site.

I've tried to imagine how a player killer would act-- watch and wait for someone who is in the middle of fighting multiple mobs until their health is getting low, then pounce. In this way they are practically guaranteed success because they will be full health. The key to the corruption system then will be to make sure they can't do it a second time because of the skill/stat dampening. I hope the dampening is severe.

I believe that any time a player turns red in a populated area, like a town, a bunch of green players will pounce to eliminate the corruption. (and loot can drop)

BigPapa1

Warth wrote: »

Also, you can't forget, that the system isn't designed to take PKs down to 0, but deter people from doing it until they feel that there is a big enough reward to be gained from the PK.

Yes, that's correct. After all, it is actually impossible to completely eliminate this, after all it is not a "problem" per se. It is only a problem if it doesn't have appropriate repercussions. In most games, the best way to circumvent this is to have an alt character. In games that don't allow for alt characters, people even go as far as having alt accounts. However, you can't exactly do anything about this. If the punishment is losing gear, you can simply equip throwaway gear. The difference in levels alone is enough in most games to one or two shot lowbies.

The ways to circumvent systems depend entirely on the system and the game mechanics, though. I personally find that if PK death means losing significant XP, this really deters people from PKing unless they really do have what it takes to face the consequences. I think Lineage 2 probably has the best system I've seen so far, and from what I've seen, this game draws a lot of inspiration from that, so that puts my mind at ease relatively speaking. That said, without having the game in my hands with all its final mechanics in place, it is hard to tell all the ways you can exploit the system.

Warth

Elo wrote: »

I hope the skill/stat dampening for corrupt players is significant, at least 25% penalty for initial corruption, 45% for 2nd corruption, etc., so that a green attacking a red, 1 vs 1, will typically give the green a big advantage. I know that while green I will always attack corrupt on site.

I've tried to imagine how a player killer would act-- watch and wait for someone who is in the middle of fighting multiple mobs until their health is getting low, then pounce. In this way they are practically guaranteed success because they will be full health. The key to the corruption system then will be to make sure they can't do it a second time because of the skill/stat dampening. I hope the dampening is severe.

I believe that any time a player turns red in a populated area, like a town, a bunch of green players will pounce to eliminate the corruption. (and loot can drop)

@Elo that's how it was in L2. People just hunted them down.
The stat dampening really doesn't matter though. Reds can't really fight back against greens or they'll simply incur more corruption and be hunted for longer.

The stat dampening is primarily against those that just want to go on a murder spree instead of those that kill someone for a somewhat valid reason and move on with their live

bloodprophet

Warth wrote: »

Kaban wrote: »

McMackMuck wrote: »

@Jeetoph
Maybe a PvP green killer will give all their gear to a trusted player and then get killed many times over until the corruption is just replaced by an EXP debt from dying. We haven't been given the exact details yet, but I imagine that Intrepid will remove any and all loopholes so the overall penalty is still tough to recover from.

That's pretty much how we used to do in L2, there'd always a "stash" character and a few people to scout around to make sure its safe to log back in and transfer equipment to a non-chaotic character and then get that karma reduced by dying.

While I have been advocating for an mostly non-regulative system all throughtout the development, i personally think, that locking the Equip/having to keep it equipped for the duration of the corruption penalty would be a reasonable change to prevent shenanigans like that. (AKA no equipment swaps when corrupted)

Under player death it says:
A corrupt (red player) suffers penalties at four times[4] the rate of a non-combatant, and has a chance to drop any carried/equipped items based on their current corruption score. This includes:[4][7]

I am pretty sure they said in one of the recent streams that corrupted players can't trade with others. So if you can't trade with others then everything you have has a chance to drop.

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