Starting / Tutorial area (Idea)

Rikeri

I was watching the last video from ThelazyPeon talking about the game "Bless unleashed"
where he was describing a cool starting area.


PS: I didn't play this game

So my discussion is based on my understanding / my wish.


Here are the main points:

• The starting area is separated from the world
• You have access to all your skills

What I like about this system is that you can have a feeling of the class you are going to play.
In 30 minutes, you are checking if you like it...


What, I imagine, would be nice:
You are level 25. You are doing some combats. Maybe against some low levels then a boss.
Your are testing different weapons...

To finish, you are in front all the portals then teleport to one of the starting zone of the real world

You loose all your abilities, and you start for real.

So it was all a dream or (somebody can insert a lore reason) it was before, and now you go back to Vera.


The main argument I want to present is

the possibility to test your character easily for a small period of time at the beginning of the game

Vhaeyne

I posted a similar idea a few months back. The main difference is that I wanted the starting area to be 100% playable offline or during the login que. I got my idea from the "Elite Dangerous" having its tutorials offline.

This would allow players to learn the game before getting in the world.
Take all the hand outs beginner quests tend to give out of the economy.
Allow players mess around while they wait.

What I like about your idea is having access to higher level skills and stuff. I would not even mind if it let you go all the way to cap, an had some training dummies to test things out. Would be really handy.

Morek

I also like the idea of playing "offline" in the queue. I would blend the ideas together and I guess you would end up with some sort of player test environment to experiment a class and its abilities. Maybe even offer sliders for levels/certain stats to give you an idea of what gear you want to look out for once you get into the game. I would also make the area limited, nothing too big so its not a hassle to implement.

Rikeri

I like your idea, Vhaeyne.

So it would be a

• small map
• tutorial
• max / high level (so you can test different character)
• off line (so you can wait during server queue)
• With test dummies or high difficulty events

Other nice characteristic?

• like guild/friend chat activate?

maouw

This is ok for MMORPG vets, but I think it compromises curiosity.

my 2c

Rikeri

Curiosity?
Do you mean to explore your character?

Personnaly, I am afraid to make an error and be disapointed by my choice ;-)

Honshu

MMOs are about socialization and exploration. The price to pay for the system you propose is harming socialization (because now nobody in "the newbie area" has a chance to develop relationships as they learn the game) and harming exploration (because now they have a saferoom where they can experiment with all the mechanics of their classes, reducing the cost of obtaining knowledge which is time and effort, which makes The Meta™ will be more prone to exerting its ugly tendrils over the playerbase).

I don't like it.

Rikeri

Here some thoughts:

We could limit to the skills at level 10.

I dont think there will be relationship development when you will be in queue waiting to enter the game.

Meta will happen anyway

Morek

I hate metas, but sadly its inevitable. Like trying to stop starving people stealing food.

Kelwald

While it might be a cool idea to put this in the game, I think it takes away from the immersion that Intrepid Studios is striving for.

bloodprophet

Rift starts in the old world(future) and you have a short 30 minute starter area to do a few quests gain a couple levels get a feel for you choose role/class. Then short boss fight and through a portal to the actual world/game(past). I liked it better at launch now it is more of a joke as they dumbed it down to much. Over all is a good idea a safer zone to get a feel for your chosen class for new people. Most veteran players already have an idea what they will play and a base understanding of how the classes will interact.

LieutenantToast

Some folks have made some interesting points here already on different sides of this discussion - in terms of balancing what would help you get more familiar with a character so you made a more informed decision, vs. that being a tradeoff on immersion and your "choices mattering".

One of our planned Dev Discussion topics for this year is in regards to new player experience, so I'm excited to see more of what you all share here and in that upcoming thread!

Jamation

As cool as it is to see my character in epic gear and test out their skills I usually don't enjoy the forced starter tutorial that is shows off all the flashy moves and then dumps you into your noob body later.

Sure it might be helpful with a linear model like Bless Unleashed, but with how this game implements augments based on such a wide variety I don't think it would really be beneficial. A character who uses heavy religious augments might play super differently than a character who uses heavy social augments. And which skills those augments are attached too will amplify the different playstyles even more so.

Not to mention being able to test everything so early on takes so much of the exploration away.

And as for an offline mode...I've got mixed feelings. I think it'd be kind of nice if there was like a "waiting" lobby if you're stuck in a queue and you could opt into playing in this bubble world, but I wouldn't want the offline mode to have any relation to the actual game. If someone is playing I think they should be playing in the "O" part of MMO.

Elo

I like the feeling of progression, so I don't like the thought of practicing with a bunch of abilities and then suddenly starting from scratch. It would leave me with the feeling, "That guy was me, but now this guy is me and I have to go up a bunch of levels to be me again."

So if you want to have this kind of preview play, you could have players practice with a generic character (or heroes from lore?) who is not actually them. I wouldn't mind playing each class as a "stranger" to see what they are like, but I don't want to play a higher level of "myself" until I get there.

But only preview up to a very limited level in any case. The surprises during progression are fun.

Samson1

I personally like going into level 1 of my newly created character ‘blind’. If after the first 10 levels of playing the character I end up not enjoying myself, I’ll just create a new character. But I have no desire to spoil the experience before even beginning the adventure...

Vhaeyne

Samson wrote: »

I personally like going into level 1 of my newly created character ‘blind’. If after the first 10 levels of playing the character I end up not enjoying myself, I’ll just create a new character. But I have no desire to spoil the experience before even beginning the adventure...

I guess from a lore prospective, you could say that the proposed area happens in the other world before we walk through the gate into Verra. That away the offline experience makes sense.

My main goals with the idea is to: have something to do in the que, learn the basics that every MMO try's to re-teach you, and (most importantly) are not given a bunch of crap from NPCs for free.

Things like a theory crafting environment are an extra I would welcome, but am not as sure about.

Jamation

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I guess from a lore prospective, you could say that the proposed area happens in the other world before we walk through the gate into Verra. That away the offline experience makes sense.

If you mean Sanctus, I don't think that would work too well since, even from the little we know, we do know it has barely any magic, meaning most classes wouldn't work.

Vhaeyne

Jamation wrote: »

If you mean Sanctus, I don't think that would work too well since, even from the little we know, we do know it has barely any magic, meaning most classes wouldn't work.

Did not know that... I would say from a DMs prospective. You can fluff just about anything and make if believable with creativity.

It also does not have to be a 1:1 environment where you learn everything about every class. I just would like to see a MMO take tutorials out of the game world. Like Elite Dangerous did.

winner909098

Jamation wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I guess from a lore prospective, you could say that the proposed area happens in the other world before we walk through the gate into Verra. That away the offline experience makes sense.

If you mean Sanctus, I don't think that would work too well since, even from the little we know, we do know it has barely any magic, meaning most classes wouldn't work.

I would explain it by having a sort of limbo when you enter the portal, where you get an ancestral memory or something like that. It could help explain why you dont keep the character as well as teach people the basics offline.

Jamation

winner909098 wrote: »

I would explain it by having a sort of limbo when you enter the portal, where you get an ancestral memory or something like that. It could help explain why you dont keep the character as well as teach people the basics offline.

I could see/get behind this from a lore perspective, like a "vision" or something as your soul traverses the different planes of existence.

Still not a fan of forcing tutorials though. Preferred the FFXIV experience where you could talk to this trainer dude and he'd take you into an instanced experience to teach you the basics only if you wanted to.

Tyranthraxus

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I posted a similar idea a few months back. The main difference is that I wanted the starting area to be 100% playable offline or during the login que. I got my idea from the "Elite Dangerous" having its tutorials offline.

This would allow players to learn the game before getting in the world.
Take all the hand outs beginner quests tend to give out of the economy.
Allow players mess around while they wait.

What I like about your idea is having access to higher level skills and stuff. I would not even mind if it let you go all the way to cap, an had some training dummies to test things out. Would be really handy.

I semi-like this idea.

It's previously been stated that Intrepid might make the character generator available off-line, with the possibility of importing it into live-production. *THIS* I like.

However, yours truly would be strongly against any offline starting area that grants even a little money, experience or gear that could be imported; Everything we have in-game for actual items and money should only be obtained online.

Sanctus would make a really good example of a starting area in which to learn the mechanics of the game, even offline. Since the lore states that magic wouldn't work there (I'm sure they could make up some explanation of exception for low-level spells, i.e. a little magic is accessable through the once-again open Divine gates/portals), it could work well as an offline area to learn to swing a weapon around, and how to move about the physical world, in-game.

Vhaeyne

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

I semi-like this idea.

It's previously been stated that Intrepid might make the character generator available off-line, with the possibility of importing it into live-production. *THIS* I like.

However, yours truly would be strongly against any offline starting area that grants even a little money, experience or gear that could be imported; Everything we have in-game for actual items and money should only be obtained online.

Sanctus would make a really good example of a starting area in which to learn the mechanics of the game, even offline. Since the lore states that magic wouldn't work there (I'm sure they could make up some explanation of exception for low-level spells, i.e. a little magic is accessable through the once-again open Divine gates/portals), it could work well as an offline area to learn to swing a weapon around, and how to move about the physical world, in-game.

I would never advocate a system that allows you to bring any progress with you from a offline game to a online game. The whole reason I like the way Elite Dangerous does it is because when you finally do start playing in the world. You start out in your cockpit, with all of the knowledge to get started in the sandbox, but no real resources are given to you. It is up to you to look at what is available in your starting area and move on from there.

I forgot that ED also lets you just play "offline" without other players by choice. I hate that. The only thing I think that you should be able to bring over is your HUD layout and Keybinds. The gods know I spend atleast 20 minutes setting that up every time I start a new MMO. Would be nice to work on that in the que.

maouw

I think this might be the place to put the WASD tutorial. Do you think a WASD tutorial is necessary today? Especially considering: most players will be out of highschool (late teens and beyond)

daveywavey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxwy8kpFwZ0