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About ageless mounts

KionashiKionashi Member
edited February 2021 in General Discussion
Im the only one that thinks ageless mounts is a bad idea? I mean, since animal husbandry and taming will be branches of the artisan tree, I believe having permanent mounts will make eventually those branches useless when everybody gets the best mount with the best stats or when there are enough master tamers to supply the little demand new players offer. But if people needed to change their mount every month or so, it will keep the tamers/animal...husbandmen? busy since there will always be demand for mounts.

--EDIT--

You guys presented really great ideas,

I like having mounts age not by a set timer like with royal mounts but by usage, so if you have your mounts sleeping in your inventory they wont fade away, but it will start aging if you mount it, use it to pull a caravan, fight something or breeds. That way people can take a break from the game without worrying their lovely mounts will be dead when they come back.

I like that people wont automatically lose their mounts if it reach an old age, maybe having diminished stats and moving gradually slower will help avoid the annoyance of having your mount to die while traveling to another node, and forcing you to walk all the way back to your node to buy another.

I like the idea of giving the task to the people in the animal husbandry system to provide quality meat for recipes in the cooking branch so even if there is low demand for mounts they will still have stuff to do.

and I like that those ideas aren't mutually exclusive so we could potentially have all of this. :D

Let's hope Intrepid see this and takes it into consideration. I will keep posting in here any good idea you guys present
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Comments

  • Sounds like a good question for Q&A thread.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Yeah,

    I always think having more consumables in the economy is a good idea.

    Ships are disposable in EVE.
    Mounts were able to be stolen or destroyed in Darkfall.

    What did they have in common...

    Ships and mounts were both always good money.

    If this game wanted to use a system to allow the mounts to have a lifespan, or be stolen or destroyed.
    I think it would be good for the market.'

    Your main argument is also correct. If their is no upkeep eventually everyone will have the best mount.
    Every breeder will be able to just put out the best product, and start undercutting them.
    It could get to a point where the best mount is the cheapest mount.
    Animals should also be able to be bred a limited number of times.

    I am sure everyone is going to hate what I am saying because it would make the game harder, but I do think it increases the value of anyone's labor who wants to specialize in animals
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Good point, and I hope Intrepid has thought of the longevity of the animal husbandry profession.

    Perhaps there is no best mount with the best stats. They might do a soft cap system, where it's possible to keep improving pets and mounts, even if it's for less and less over time. Maybe breeding takes so long that the sheer amount of pairings and options means it'll take years and years before players get maxed out animals in all combinations.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    I've long been of the opinion that mounts would die in some manner before the game goes live.

    My assumption is that it will be either a times thing at about 3 months, or tied in some way to the amount of use a given mount gets.
  • MowabyMowaby Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    The only thing I can think of is that animal husbandry will need a supply. The problem is then the demand from animal husbandry... I think they should have a "durability" that would either make it decay or something similar. I am not sure how a repair system would work for mounts though. They could have a food to repair them or maybe a kit but that doesn't really solve the need for taming or animal husbandry.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Mowaby wrote: »
    The only thing I can think of is that animal husbandry will need a supply. The problem is then the demand from animal husbandry... I think they should have a "durability" that would either make it decay or something similar. I am not sure how a repair system would work for mounts though. They could have a food to repair them or maybe a kit but that doesn't really solve the need for taming or animal husbandry.

    Everyday my cat decays a little, he is pretty good at letting me know he needs food and water to keep himself repaired.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Yeah,

    I always think having more consumables in the economy is a good idea.

    Ships are disposable in EVE.
    Mounts were able to be stolen or destroyed in Darkfall.

    What did they have in common...

    Ships and mounts were both always good money.

    If this game wanted to use a system to allow the mounts to have a lifespan, or be stolen or destroyed.
    I think it would be good for the market.'

    Your main argument is also correct. If their is no upkeep eventually everyone will have the best mount.
    Every breeder will be able to just put out the best product, and start undercutting them.
    It could get to a point where the best mount is the cheapest mount.
    Animals should also be able to be bred a limited number of times.

    I am sure everyone is going to hate what I am saying because it would make the game harder, but I do think it increases the value of anyone's labor who wants to specialize in animals

    To be fair, ships were not good money at all, as you were generally a slave to mineral price fluctuations, and the market for most T1 ships was driven by people who had massive production scales/already had stock made at a cheaper price.

    BDO's breeding system made horses relatively consumable, with number of breeding attempts being maxed at 1 per female horse and 2 per male horse. Prices never really dropped since the cost of breeding a high tier horse with decent skills was pretty high in terms of time invested.

    Ageing mounts is an interesting idea but i can also see it as an annoyance where other systems might be able to compensate, including market forces.
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited January 2021
    I have a suggestion:
    Butcheries -> where the finest breeds of ______ can be turned into high quality crafting/cooking materials

    Or maybe you can release them into the wild and boost spawn rates (for the nature lovers)
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • maouw wrote: »
    Butcheries -> where the finest breeds of ______ can be turned into high quality crafting/cooking materials

    Findus Lasagne, anyone...?
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • MowabyMowaby Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    maouw wrote: »
    I have a suggestion:
    Butcheries -> where the finest breeds of ______ can be turned into high quality crafting/cooking materials

    Or maybe you can release them into the wild and boost spawn rates (for the nature lovers)

    You are a genius. I didn't even think of that. I was stuck on mounts and you come in here from a different angle. That would be a great option for taming/animal husbandry. I guess it would depend on if higher quality meat is a thing to make better food.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Nightly wrote: »
    To be fair, ships were not good money at all, as you were generally a slave to mineral price fluctuations, and the market for most T1 ships was driven by people who had massive production scales/already had stock made at a cheaper price.
    Yeah, The mounts moved way more in Darkfall because they would get killed or stolen so easy. In EVE I guess my point was that the market for ships existed, and you could make money off of it. In WOW/FFXIV the only mounts that move are a few BOEs. Once you have them there is no need to ever buy them again.
    Nightly wrote: »
    Ageing mounts is an interesting idea but i can also see it as an annoyance where other systems might be able to compensate, including market forces.
    I know people are going to come from "Theme Park" MMOs, and be pissed if mounts have upkeep. I would want a mount upkeep system that keeps Animal Husbandry a way to make money. Like how in most games alchemy and cooking seem to consistently do well. Maybe they can make a feed or something?
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • JamationJamation Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    maouw wrote: »
    I have a suggestion:
    Butcheries -> where the finest breeds of ______ can be turned into high quality crafting/cooking materials

    You are a monster. And a fiend. But...it's...a...fine...idea... :neutral:
  • I know people are going to come from "Theme Park" MMOs, and be pissed if mounts have upkeep. I would want a mount upkeep system that keeps Animal Husbandry a way to make money. Like how in most games alchemy and cooking seem to consistently do well. Maybe they can make a feed or something?[/quote]

    Hmm yeah, i think many animal related products should be under animal husbandry. Feed in BDO is considered cooking but I dont think it should go that way in Ashes. Other things to consider: Horse shoes, saddles/blankets, salt licks, barding, brushes, etc.

    How many other animals will animal husbandry cover? Raising pigs for cooking supplies is animal husbandry too.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member
    edited January 2021
    Chickens and cows for eggs and milk.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Cows
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • CadacCadac Member
    edited January 2021
    I would prefer that 3rd, or 5th mount death = permadeath. No PVE grind for upkeep.

    If you want scarcity across the board in the marketplace, to make finished goods have value, make safespaces (freeholds) attackable(gasp!), a % of mats could be destroyed, and an even smaller % looted, for 1hr once a week during server primetime.

    Crafters should also be exposed to risk during crafting somehow. Can you explain to me why, of the artisan types, only gatherers are exposed to risk?

    Maybe PVP can solve PVE created problems, not even more PVE.

    I plan to have a freehold myself, and do processing, so I am not pointing the risk cannon solely at others.

    I edited just to add that I thoroughly enjoy most PVE, group, and raid dungeons can be a blast. I am not a never PVE player.
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I am kind of leaning age. It's makes the most since to me. Kind of suck if late game taming/animal husbandry was mostly spent making some kind of food for mounts instead of the mounts themselves.

    Timer should be decent though, it would be nice if it was a few weeks to a month. Could also be nice if killing the mount impacts the timer.
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    We could go the more morbid Dr. Frankenstein route.

    Like item repairs requiring materials equivalent to the item being repaired, repairing a horse could require butchering another horse with similar stats to replace the broken parts :wink:
  • I am kind of leaning age. It's makes the most since to me. Kind of suck if late game taming/animal husbandry was mostly spent making some kind of food for mounts instead of the mounts themselves.

    Timer should be decent though, it would be nice if it was a few weeks to a month. Could also be nice if killing the mount impacts the timer.

    Agreed. I plan on breeding mounts, and I dont want to spend all of my money buying feed to keep my mules alive. Feed should be used for when you plan on breeding or healing mounts.
  • I never even thought about mounts been part of the husbandry bit. I assumed it was for other animals like pets or animals that can be used for food.

    I have a dream. That I can tame wolves. And eventually sell Pomeranians to people as in game pets.

    Please make it so Ashes.
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited January 2021
    I shudder to use BDO as a model, however, the tier system in BDO means most player don't own higher than tier 8 mounts, some have tier 9 and BDO recently announced tier 10.

    I would rather see expansions in tiers than deaths on mounts. We have enough gold sinks already and having to replace a damn mount every few months will be too much of a drain. I do not know the prices of the tiers in Ashes (The game is far from release) but in BDO a tier 9 with all the best traits costs hundreds of millions, the perfect one billions (of silver not gold).

    I would hope IS have a broader concept in mind (We know there are different tiers thanks to the skins available), than coping out and just killing all mounts in a timescale.

    We have timed mounts (Flying Mounts) and that is a tier of its own. We want more tiers, not one tier fits all.

    Edit: Of course, I meant age related deaths. I'm all for combat deaths. In BDO you can resurrect the mount after death. I imagine IS would use a similar system. The BDO System for mounts is one of the better BDO Systems. Could be improved of course.
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  • krozairkrozair Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Why not let the mounts be somewhat "ageless" (to put it better, not die from age) but the prime of their live is lets say 3 or 6 month after growing up to their prime, and then they decay over another 3 to 6 month to less then halve the stats, you don't "loose" the mount, meaning you can still transport and travel more and faster then without but you are far away from what you could do with this thing in its prime.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Neurath wrote: »
    I shudder to use BDO as a model, however, the tier system in BDO means most player don't own higher than tier 8 mounts, some have tier 9 and BDO recently announced tier 10.

    I would rather see expansions in tiers than deaths on mounts. We have enough gold sinks already and having to replace a damn mount every few months will be too much of a drain. I do not know the prices of the tiers in Ashes (The game is far from release) but in BDO a tier 9 with all the best traits costs hundreds of millions, the perfect one billions (of silver not gold).

    I would hope IS have a broader concept in mind (We know there are different tiers thanks to the skins available), than coping out and just killing all mounts in a timescale.

    We have timed mounts (Flying Mounts) and that is a tier of its own. We want more tiers, not one tier fits all.

    Edit: Of course, I meant age related deaths. I'm all for combat deaths. In BDO you can resurrect the mount after death. I imagine IS would use a similar system. The BDO System for mounts is one of the better BDO Systems. Could be improved of course.

    My issue with this is that it means the viability of anyone breeding amounts is determined 100% by Intrepid introducing new mount tires.

    If mounts die, the price of them will reflect that.
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited January 2021
    It wasn't conceived as ideation for greater Mount Tiers, it was conceived on the basis we have mount tiers already in the design. It is impossible for me to state how easy it will be to glean gold, or how fast one can glean a lot of gold, but, it is easy to state that different mount tiers will cost different amounts of gold.

    So far, I haven't seen any traits of mounts beyond the initial design functions. This would suggest that Mount Tiers will be pretty basic, however, the game is still in design and not at a static point. If we have Animal Husbandry then one would hope it is substantial enough to provide different traits.

    Different traits in solitude would equate to higher tier and lower tier dependent upon amalgamation, thus price differentiations would come into effect. It is a difficult topic to discuss because I lack knowledge on the precise nature of Animal Husbandry, the precise nature of the mounts and the precise nature of the In-Game Market Manipulations.

    I made reference to a Live Game (BDO) but I also stated the Live System (BDO) could be improved upon.

    Edit: More to the point, in BDO, traits are achieved through training and not necessarily through the initial breed. The initial breed gives the tier. I don't see training skills in Ashes of Creation so far so I can only assume the initial breed or the initial drop will dictate the tier and not further manipulation of the mount. I believe a trick can be learnt for deeper depth but I personally won't be doing Animal Husbandry.

    I suspect it will be more in line with SWG's Creature Handler but I would prefer greater depth too.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Neurath wrote: »
    It wasn't conceived as ideation for greater Mount Tiers, it was conceived on the basis we have mount tiers already in the design.

    As I said though, no matter how many tiers there are, eventually every player will have the tier of mount they are comfortable with, and will simply stop buying any more mounts.

    If breeding and selling mounts is to be a viable option for the life of the game, people doing this need a constant stream of people wanting to buy mounts. If mounts do not degrade in some manner, the only way to do this is to keep adding new tiers of mount so that people keep having something new to buy.

    I'm not saying there aren't some good points to BDO's system, I am saying that if Intrepid want to make breeding a viable path for players, they need to come up with a way to ensure breeders will always have a buyer. BDO doesn't have that, which is why they released a new tier - in fact, I am fairly sure the cap on mounts when I played BDO was about 6 - I know it had just been put up to 8 the last time I looked at the game.

    Basically, BDO's system requires the addition of new tiers in order to maintain, I personally think Ashes should come up with a way to not require the addition of new tiers. To me, that is the improvement on that system that needs to be made.
  • RhuricRhuric Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Mounts should age and then be turned into glue when they're no longer useful.

    Animal Husbandry reminds me a bit of Ark's breeding and while I'm excited for that...I shudder to think of the impact to servers with people having hundreds of breeding creatures out as they all compete to have the top tier pets. Hopefully your freehold will limit the amount of creatures you can actively breed at any given time...
    "Almost dead yesterday, maybe dead tomorrow, but alive, GLORIOUSLY alive, today."
  • MowabyMowaby Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited January 2021
    Rhuric wrote: »
    Mounts should age and then be turned into glue when they're no longer useful.

    Animal Husbandry reminds me a bit of Ark's breeding and while I'm excited for that...I shudder to think of the impact to servers with people having hundreds of breeding creatures out as they all compete to have the top tier pets. Hopefully your freehold will limit the amount of creatures you can actively breed at any given time...

    I don't think most tamed creatures will be in the world physically like Ark.
  • BirdieBirdie Moderator, Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Imagine trying to sell a beautiful young horse while it's young and it takes so long to sell you end up selling an ugly old horse that has 2 days to live.
    Damn I'm already sad for that poor creature.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • RhuricRhuric Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Birdie wrote: »
    Imagine trying to sell a beautiful young horse while it's young and it takes so long to sell you end up selling an ugly old horse that has 2 days to live.
    Damn I'm already sad for that poor creature.

    That's why you sell it to the knackers, still make money!
    "Almost dead yesterday, maybe dead tomorrow, but alive, GLORIOUSLY alive, today."
  • BirdieBirdie Moderator, Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    The knackers would buy a dying horse?
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • RhuricRhuric Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited January 2021
    Birdie wrote: »
    The knackers would buy a dying horse?
    That's where they get glue from. And meat for your stews!
    "Almost dead yesterday, maybe dead tomorrow, but alive, GLORIOUSLY alive, today."
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