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Hot bar versus hotkeys

NightlyNightly Member
in General Discussion
Are there any plans for innate hotkey combos on abilities? Black Desert's combat feels great largely because of this system imo. Some abilities on hotbar make sense but having your whole combo be on 1-7 is annoying when you also need to use the mouse and move with WASD. This is why ESO suffers so bad on keyboard and mouse too.

Comments

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    We will have a Hybrid Combat System. Some will be tab-target and some will be action (like BDO). From what I've seen so far the combat is very basic compared to BDO. However, the combat is on par with a lot of older MMOs. We don't know how augments will work and we haven't seen higher level skills either.

    The Hybrid System is a complex phenomena and I don't feel confident in explaining the fundamentals until I've played with the system. So far, there has been two iterations of combat shown - Quick Time Events were scrapped and I believe Focus was also scrapped. There will be combat revamps in March and beyond. I do not know what the final iteration will look like but the basic foundations should be present.

    It would be lush if they give us active dodge and active sprint. Right now, it seems very static and slow with elongated skill animations thrown in too. I do not know if Active Dodge and Active Sprint are in A1. A1 is under NDA. I just haven't seen it in videos I've watched so far.
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  • VmanGmanVmanGman Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    There are currently no plans BDO style combat.

    I highly recommend a MMO (12 button mouse). It completely changes the way you are able to play the game.
  • NightlyNightly Member
    edited February 2021
    I understand that there is a mix of action and 'tab' targeting. Im explicitly addressing how the skills are invoked.

    If every ability you have is just the number bar, it's going to feel super clunky. It's fine to have some hotkey, direct the AOE by mouse, and click to execute (as seen in the mage combat videos).

    Having hotkeys like: W+F, Shift+LMB, Shift+RMB, S+LMB, E, etc, makes the combat feel much more fluid and leaves your hand near your regular movement keys.

    At the very least make it so you can create compound hotkeys to cast abilities so that we can remap away from the number bar.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    What we need is a wide ranging key bind option. What works well for one person doesn't work so well for others. A wide ranging key bind option should cater to all players.
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  • LeiloniLeiloni Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 2021
    Nightly wrote: »
    I understand that there is a mix of action and 'tab' targeting. Im explicitly addressing how the skills are invoked.

    If every ability you have is just the number bar, it's going to feel super clunky. It's fine to have some hotkey, direct the AOE by mouse, and click to execute (as seen in the mage combat videos).

    Having hotkeys like: W+F, Shift+LMB, Shift+RMB, S+LMB, E, etc, makes the combat feel much more fluid and leaves your hand near your regular movement keys.

    At the very least make it so you can create compound hotkeys to cast abilities so that we can remap away from the number bar.

    I can't think of one single game aside from BDO that doesn't let you rebind hotkeys to whatever keys you want, including Shift/Ctrl/Alt combos. W+F probably not, though. So I'm sure it'll be fine. And as another poster said, an MMO mouse with extra keys is a huge help.
  • NightlyNightly Member
    Leiloni wrote: »
    Nightly wrote: »
    I understand that there is a mix of action and 'tab' targeting. Im explicitly addressing how the skills are invoked.

    If every ability you have is just the number bar, it's going to feel super clunky. It's fine to have some hotkey, direct the AOE by mouse, and click to execute (as seen in the mage combat videos).

    Having hotkeys like: W+F, Shift+LMB, Shift+RMB, S+LMB, E, etc, makes the combat feel much more fluid and leaves your hand near your regular movement keys.

    At the very least make it so you can create compound hotkeys to cast abilities so that we can remap away from the number bar.

    I can't think of one single game aside from BDO that doesn't let you rebind hotkeys to whatever keys you want, including Shift/Ctrl/Alt combos. W+F probably not, though. So I'm sure it'll be fine. And as another poster said, an MMO mouse with extra keys is a huge help.

    ESO only had 1 to 1 remapping for hotkeys which didnt work for me :/. Ill buy an mmo mouse if i have to but I dont want to if i can avoid it, much prefer abilities on my keyboard
  • VolgaireVolgaire Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I would love hotkeys to be a large element at least for classes that are close range/quick, if I play as a mage or priest then simply pressing a key to cast is fine since it does make things more tactical especially if there are any spells that will have to be aimed but with a melee class I really want to feel that fluidity that comes with something like bdo where a combo can be executed really well as long as you commit it to muscle memory.

    Besides whenever I have to do rotations with a hotbar I tend to stare at the bar itself if I don't have the rotation and timing down to a T which takes my attention away from the game itself, always thought it's a big shame.
  • CypherCypher Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    +1 for unrestricted hot key mapping. Only having basic attacks on your mouse click and every other skill being on a number just feels so nasty. Prefer combos like what was mentioned above.

    There’s almost nothing more annoying than playing a new game, going to the keybinds to change something to match with every other game you play and the stupid game not allowing it for some reason. Like, some games won’t let you bind Alt with anything. WHY?
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Steven has talked about being able to use the right skill at the right time, with no rotations. To me this means no combos.

    I want to freely be able to bind whatever I want to whatever I want, and be able to use any skills in any order I want. Combos are just a way of enforcing more control on how the player is expected to play, and it removes some player agency.

    I have two hands just like anyone else, and I can access a more skills than a game would ever give me while moving with a MMO mouse. In 2020 it is crazy to me that there are still MMO players not using some form of MMO mouse.

    I don't understand why there are so many luddites out there who want to try and use a basic ass mouse or controller to play MMOs. You would rather have everyone lose complexity and player agency so that you can save 40$ on a mouse. It is crazy.
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    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    You don't have to only use 1-9 for your spells I usually use.1-4, Shift + 1-4, Q, E, F, R, T, X, C, V, G, Shift + F, R, T, X, C, V, E, then some stuff on CTRL usually as well. I've never found using spells clunky doing this.
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  • CypherCypher Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    I don't understand why there are so many luddites out there who want to try and use a basic ass mouse or controller to play MMOs. You would rather have everyone lose complexity and player agency so that you can save 40$ on a mouse. It is crazy.

    You sound like an elitist prick right now.

    1- The argument is to give the player the choice to bind any action to any key (and this includes key combos not just single keys)

    2- How exactly is it less complex to bind actions to different combos than it would be to have a single button for every skill? Especially if you have an “mmo mouse” like you do in which case you just click a button on the mouse and be done.

    This isn’t an argument about having the keys accessible it’s an argument to be able to put whatever you want, wherever you want. I find it much more enjoyable to press say LMB for basic swing, Shift+LMB for a heavy swing, RMB for guard, Shift+RMB to do a shield bash, etc etc.
    What I DON’T want is to have to instead press 1 for my heavy swing skill and 2 for my shield bash, when it could be more intuitive and enjoyable to me to bind it my way.
    Talents wrote: »
    You don't have to only use 1-9 for your spells I usually use.1-4, Shift + 1-4, Q, E, F, R, T, X, C, V, G, Shift + F, R, T, X, C, V, E, then some stuff on CTRL usually as well. I've never found using spells clunky doing this.

    Yeah that’s part of what my argument is for... being able to bind what I want to where I want, it doesn’t matter if you or anyone else thinks it’s a good idea or prefers to bind skills a different way...not sure if you’re directing that to me or the OP or someone else...
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