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Arachnophobia - Spiders: Possibility to make them cute/appearance different?

ChufuChufu Member
edited February 2021 in General Discussion
Guys I am really hyped already for your game, the more I read the more I feel that's definitely a game I would love to play. Especially because it looks like a really good MMO. :smiley:

One thing that reaaaaally bothers me though because of my Arachnophobia are the spiders ingame. I noticed a picture today and they look super real, especially on the Cleric Animation video. So real, that tbh when they attack me in the game, I see myself already screaming, neighbours wondering if somebody gets killed, and me so in shock that my character is just dying.

Therefore I have a superspecial request or question for you: Would it be possible to implement a function that can be enabled for people like me who are superscared of spiders, to let them either look cute or change their models to something else (e.g. all spiders are lizards or something)?

I know most of you probably don't see a problem with spiders, but it's really horrific. In older games, I never had a problem, even the spiders in The Elder Scrolls Online are still fine more me, but your new models (I must admit though they are super realistic and therefore amazing!) are just too much in that regard. As the game is still in development, I am just asking if if would be possible to implement something that helps all the players with that fear of spiders, but all the ones who still enjoy and love MMOs and especially follow Ashes of Creation!
MOD NOTE: Hi guys. When discussing this topic please avoid personal attacks or implications about mental instability for people with phobias. A little compassion and empathy never hurt when dealing with things. Thanks.
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Comments

  • KuldjuxKuldjux Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I've actually been thinking about this since I posted a previous thread about the spider models and someone mentioned that they are arachnophobic, and I wondered how they cope with that in games.

    I'm actually a huge fan of spiders, but I can understand your phobia. I was once in a bookshop and went to buy a spider book (a rubbish one btw, it kept calling them insects! But that is besides the point). The book had a drawing of the silhouette of a spider on the cover. When I went to pay for it the lady behind the desk literally screemed and ran away, and that was just a silhouette drawing!

    So yes, I totally support your suggestion!
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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I understand your concerns, but, there are many phobias and other issues. In China for example any reference to death is banned so you can't have zombies, death knights, necromancers based around death etc. I do not know the parameters or the time in animation it costs to cover over these issues, but, if one area is catered to then other areas might appear.

    I'm not against the idea in a general sense, I'm just not sure it can be implemented. The good news is IS won't publish in China to my knowledge so the death parameters aren't affected :)
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  • JamationJamation Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    While I understand the request, I feel it could open the door to a much bigger problem in the long run. If they create the "cute" switch for spiders it could then lead to people asking for every other type of mob being changed in some way. If this happens they'd have to basically make two models for every mob type, which would take time away from potentially creating new mobs or content. And if they chose not to make the models for the other requests it could easily be flagged as bias or indifference towards other phobia's (which wouldn't necessarily be true due to the work involved with the process)

    On the other side if the switch did just change the design to a different creature, they'd then need to consider how the new skin would be distinguishable as they'd most likely have different skills and animations, which would also have to be tweaked in order to adjust. This would also raise the problem of how a player would know whether or not this was a spider vs the mob skinned type.

    I understand that many people suffer from a variety of things, but I don't think this is feasible from a long-term perspective.
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member, Alpha Two
    It does seem like perhaps too much effort for the devs. The only thing I can think of is a toggle to make the mobs show up as either the basic grey models you see in games sometimes if loading is too slow, or some other "basic" model like what they're doing for player models in crowded areas. So you could take what is otherwise a graphics performance setting and let people use it on mobs. Although I'm not sure if it's feasible to have it happen only on spider mobs.
  • No... I want realistic and frightening spiders, if you can't face spiders in a videogame, thats part of the role playing. Means your character would not fight them. Don't make them cuter or more cartoony, if anything make them even more scary!!
  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited February 2021
    I have a phobia of waiting for a game to come out. Can I just get access now so I don't have to live in agony for the next 1-2 years please?

    Cute spiders are lame.
  • Leiloni wrote: »
    It does seem like perhaps too much effort for the devs. The only thing I can think of is a toggle to make the mobs show up as either the basic grey models you see in games sometimes if loading is too slow, or some other "basic" model like what they're doing for player models in crowded areas. So you could take what is otherwise a graphics performance setting and let people use it on mobs. Although I'm not sure if it's feasible to have it happen only on spider mobs.

    Replacing mob meshes with blobs or default models would give an advantage in areas where mobs might be more difficult to visually track (e.g. in tall grass, dark areas).

    Also, I don't know how common it is to use machine learning to automate things in mmos, but if you're using machine learning on raw display output, this could make it extremely easy to identify mobs with such an option. Machine learning on display output would be difficult to detect and ban too, since it emulates how humans interact with the game. It would be actually fairly robust and easy to code if it just needs to trained on a default model.
  • LloydLloyd Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I have arachnophobia as well, and although they increase my blood pressure and heart rate exponentially, if you remind yourself it's just a game and you're fine, you can mentally work past it. It's when you have the mentality of "I can't" then you'll never be able to overcome that fear. I wouldn't want my fear to be catered to and ruin other people's play times. I'll just get over it.
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    _____________________________________________________________________________________
    Current Member of the Gray Sentinels.
  • I suggest a much simpler fix for people with arachnophobia for the devs to implement. Simply an option to toggle off the graphic for spiders, if you have such a phobia. No extra use of resources at all.

    /whispers "invisible spiders...."
  • KatakKatak Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Perfect opportunity for you to face your fears and overcome them.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Lloyd wrote: »
    I have arachnophobia as well, and although they increase my blood pressure and heart rate exponentially, if you remind yourself it's just a game and you're fine, you can mentally work past it. It's when you have the mentality of "I can't" then you'll never be able to overcome that fear. I wouldn't want my fear to be catered to and ruin other people's play times. I'll just get over it.

    An adult
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited February 2021
    While we are at it, I want a function that gives me a list of all the:
    outfits
    weapon skins
    mount skins
    colours
    non combat pets

    from which I can select and tick off the ones I dislike and then I won't be seeing non of that. They upset me. See where I am going with that?
  • VirulentVirulent Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    No. Get over it.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Cujo wrote: »
    No. Get over it.

    That is an inappropriate thing to suggest.

    A phobia is an irrational fear. People can know a thing isn't something they need to be afraid of, yet that phobia will persist. It is not something the person has control over.

    Saying "get over it" to a person with a severe phobia is like telling someone that is a limb short to just grow another one back - neither are things the person has control over.

    Have a bit more compassion for others than this.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited February 2021
    While we are at it, I want a function that gives me a list of all the:
    outfits
    weapon skins
    mount skins
    colours
    non combat pets

    from which I can select and tick off the ones I dislike and then I won't be seeing non of that. They upset me. See where I am going with that?

    I would actually say this is fine, for anything that is considered one of the top 20 phobias.

    An MMO attempting to not force things on to players that are common subjects of a phobia - as long as it doesn't affect the rest of us - is in no way a bad thing.

    Some of the top 20 phobias are things like spiders, snakes, water, blood, heights, flying, enclosed spaces and thunder.

    The thing is, of these, only three of the top 20 phobias that I can see are really able to be triggered in an MMO - spiders, snakes and thunder. Things like water, heights and enclosed spaces are not triggered by seeing them, they are only triggered by being in them. - and I assume someone with acrophobia probably doesn't have their computer set up next to a cliff.

    I see no reason at all why Intrepid couldn't add in a model/sound effect replacement for these few things - as it wouldn't affect you or I at all. It doesn't even need to be a unique model/sound effect.

    Edit to add; there are some phobias, such as porphyrophobia, that could affect players in an MMO, but that they would have to have taken steps to alleviating anyway if they wish to use a computer in general, so Intrepid need do nothing at all to assist here.
  • MoriaweMoriawe Member, Alpha Two
    I don't think many of you in this thread have a real phobia or know what it really is. Chufu has a valid question, please treat them with respect, we are all grown ups, right?
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  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited February 2021
    As an adult you can make the conscious choice to not partake in an activity that you can't deal with.

    You can't expect the development to spend tens of thousands of dollars to provide alternative solutions to the many phobias people have.
    Some people are afraid of clusters of small holes, why shouldn't this be tackled?
    Or the heights or depths.

    As an adult learn to accept no. Respectfuly it is too expensive to implement.
    Respectfuly, there are epilepsy warnings on videogames and people make their own choices.
    Respectfuly there aren't enough people affected so severely by those phobias, to merit a development design, unlike colour blindness.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited February 2021
    As an adult you can make the conscious choice to not partake in an activity that you can't deal with.
    You absolutely can.

    These people absolutely could make a decision to not play Ashes. Without a doubt.

    However, for the sake of a days worth of work for one employee (more like an hour, but hey), Intrepid could give people with COMMON phobias the option to not have trigger events in their game. They could make it as simple as adding an option for "bovine mode", wherein all snakes and spiders have their model replaced with an existing cow model, and all thunder is replaced by the sound of a cow mooing. All of those assets are likely to be in game anyway, so the total sum of work needed is creating the UI option, and then setting that option to redirect from one asset to another asset.

    They obviously could do much more than that if they wanted, but at a base level, this is all that is needed.

    The cost is low, the potential benefits are an unknown number of potential subscribers, and the downsides to the rest of the player base are zero.

    I'm not seeing your argument here.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    I got nothing more to add. If they can add it they will. Dont c it happening
  • I have severe thanatophobia, can they please give me the chance to disable death? Thank you.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I am terrified of spiders, but that never once stopped me from enjoying the Drow aesthetic or other spiders in games.

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    If the spiders don't make your skin crawl. Then they are just another bag of hit points to swing at.
    Being scary is what makes spiders special. Be grateful that you can be humbled be somethings appearance alone. I get no emotional response from Nagas, or giant snakes. Some people get that same fear I get with spiders when dealing with snake monsters. I am kind of jealous that only spiders really invoke that fear in me.
    It could be so much more.

    Who knows, maybe after killing some spiders in Ashes you might be slightly better equipped mentally to deal with a real spider when the time comes.
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    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • bigepeenbigepeen Member
    edited February 2021
    Noaani wrote: »
    Things like water, heights and enclosed spaces are not triggered by seeing them, they are only triggered by being in them. - and I assume someone with acrophobia probably doesn't have their computer set up next to a cliff.

    I just want to say that this is totally false.

    A lot of people get anxiety and sweaty palms just from seeing heights, dangerous situations etc... No idea why you assumed that people with acrophobia need to literally be next to a cliff lol.

    https://youtu.be/ju-F8xkKiwU
  • CypherCypher Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I have thalassophobia, can the devs spend money and resources meant for more important things to give me an option to change the ocean into a desert?

    No, I’ll just have a really thrilling experience every time I’m out on a ship at sea or, god forbid, I fall off the ship or sink and then the fear really kicks in.

    I also have actual arachnophobia (not just one of those people who say “I have _ phobia isn’t that so crazy omg”) so I can sympathize but as others have mentioned, I can process that it’s just a game and while I might be sickened by the sight of the beasts, I can keep my composure.
    I would advise you to do one of two things: expose yourself to them, because it really is the only way to dampen the intensity, or avoid doing content that includes them and miss out.

    I know you can do it! 🙂
  • I have a solution for arachnophibics who can't even see spiders.

    Don't play this game.

    Don't watch Lord of the Rings.

    Don't watch Harry Potter.

    Don't watch National geographic.

    Be safe. Your welcome.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Marcet wrote: »
    I have a solution for arachnophibics who can't even see spiders.

    Don't play this game.

    Don't watch Lord of the Rings.

    Don't watch Harry Potter.

    Don't watch National geographic.

    Be safe. Your welcome.

    You forgot don't watch Spiderman.
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  • xydrassialxydrassial Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ill protect you from spideys I swear it!
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 2021
    Underneath your chair, right now....

    There's an enormous spider...




    Watching youuuuuu......
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    bigepeen wrote: »
    No idea why you assumed that people with acrophobia need to literally be next to a cliff lol.

    Because I've never seen it.

    I've known a few people with different phobias in the past. All of the people I have known with acrophobia have only ever had it trigger when they themselves were at elevation.

    I'm not necessarily saying that this is the case for all such people, but I wouldn't take a YouTube video as proof of anything, as I'm sure a video of someone appearing to be so afraid of heights that photos can trigger it would get a lot of views.
  • For most people, phobias only manifest when they experience them first hand. Of course for some people even spiders in a game can trigger their arachnophobia, but that is a much more severe (and rarer) case of arachnophobia. The issue with this, is that the devs can't possibly address every single phobia out there. There's literally thousands of them. If they do something about this, good on them, but I really doubt it.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    BigPapa wrote: »
    For most people, phobias only manifest when they experience them first hand. Of course for some people even spiders in a game can trigger their arachnophobia, but that is a much more severe (and rarer) case of arachnophobia. The issue with this, is that the devs can't possibly address every single phobia out there. There's literally thousands of them. If they do something about this, good on them, but I really doubt it.

    That is why I am not suggesting they attempt to address all of them, only the appropriate ones that are in the top 20 most common.

    If you look at it that way, there are only a small handful in the top 20 that are relevent to the discussion, all of which are easily fixed. I mean, no one is suggesting Intrepid do anything to assist the two people out there that are likely to have onomatophobia.
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