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Threat Assessment as a Skill

RhuricRhuric Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
edited February 2021 in General Discussion
We got to talking in Discord tonight about Threat Assessment and how the current approach to it is.

From the wiki:
Players will have a buff on their nameplate that indicates the gear set they are wearing. Other players will be able to see this buff by targeting that player at a distance.[14][15][16]

This will indicate the type of gear (cloth, leather, plate) that they are predominantly wearing.[15]

The border will indicate the level and quality of the tier set.[14][15][17]

This also indicates if the gear is enchanted.[15][17]

The developers believe that inspecting gear to obtain an exact equipment list or gear score may lead to "unwelcome behavior".[18]

When you see a player approaching you and they're wearing a transmog you know you don't know if that person is a high damage mitigation against physical damage or against magical damage and essentially the way we overcome that is through you being able to target a player at a distance and they will have a buff that's present on them that you will see, which indicates that essentially the piece set that they are wearing. It is important for players to be able to ascertain from a threat assessment standpoint you know what they're going up against if they're actively checking that and that will be available.[16] – Steven Sharif

Being by default able to see a person's "gear score" / equipment list... may cause unwelcome behavior.[18]

Instead of having this be something that you always see when looking at people, why not have it as an active skill that needs to be used. Similar to Libra in Final Fantasy games. Something players could augment or increase in rank if they desired for more details. The skill could even be called Threat Assessment, something available as a general skill to any player and not tied to a class. As a skill, it wouldn't be able to be blocked/parried/dodged or resisted/reflected. It wouldn't even count as a hostile action.

It was commented that in a large scale PvP fight it might not be that useful. I would argue that if someone relies on it and levels it up or skills into it, then the skill could become an AoE centered around a target and scanning within x radius of target.


What are your thoughts on the matter?

Also, should it be useable in PvE as well against NPC monsters?

Here's a poll.
"Almost dead yesterday, maybe dead tomorrow, but alive, GLORIOUSLY alive, today."

Comments

  • AntVictusAntVictus Member, Alpha One
    I agree. It should be something that players should willingly be able to use, but at the same time it needs to be made aware to them that it's a thing. Otherwise it won't get used except by a few people, but it's a viable change that I would welcome.
  • I really like this idea and it genuinely makes me interested in exploring it further because I was a bit bummed out that you can't disable other peoples transmogs which I think you should be able too. The biggest reason was because I could no longer properly assess the players strength which is essential in PvP.

    The funny thing is, this comment:
    "The developers believe that inspecting gear to obtain an exact equipment list or gear score may lead to "unwelcome behavior".[18]".

    I'm assuming from this standpoint that you will not be able to inspect peoples gear and instead they will replace it with a system that tells you a players strength by giving you a generalistic idea of their total power level.

    However, to me this just sounds like any other Gear Score system with extra steps. You know what, I will call it a Gear Score system.

    In WoW pieces genuinely mattered during Classic because many of them had unique effects, like most engineering craftables.

    Assuming we will be able to get unique pieces of loot with effects or gadgets and alike, I think this system should focus on giving information about such items the player might have, outside of the Gear Score system.
  • I don't want to see it, at all. Name and level, that's all I need. Make me find the rest out myself.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • RhuricRhuric Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    daveywavey wrote: »
    I don't want to see it, at all. Name and level, that's all I need. Make me find the rest out myself.

    TBH that's how I feel about the matter all together but the threat assessment thing is already planned. I'd at least like it to be something more engaging than casual mouse-overs of nameplates.
    "Almost dead yesterday, maybe dead tomorrow, but alive, GLORIOUSLY alive, today."
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I honestly prefer it the way they have it planned. I don't need another active skill to take up a keybind. In my mind, if you want to expand on the concept, it makes more sense as a passive skill. But then, what's the point really? To me it's just adding complexity without depth.

    You would have to have a skill to obfuscate other players determining what you're wearing, if there is to be a point to it all. If they add such a system and those two opposing skills, what's the trade off? What other skills can't trained as high? If those two skills are independent of other skills, and there is no downside to training it to the max, again, it just adds complexity without adding depth.
  • I just don't get why the whole Threat Assessment functionality needs to be there. In a game where "risk vs reward" is one of their favourite catchphrases, surely it makes more sense to know less rather than more?
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • daveywavey wrote: »
    I just don't get why the whole Threat Assessment functionality needs to be there. In a game where "risk vs reward" is one of their favourite catchphrases, surely it makes more sense to know less rather than more?

    I'd agree wholeheartedly if we could disable transmogs/cosmetics as I am of the opinion that they will be used to visually hide your gear setup.

    Yes we will get some kind of HUD element that shows the general stats but if there are unique items it will still be an issue since you can't disable other peoples transmog/cosmetics from you pov.
  • MowabyMowaby Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    daveywavey wrote: »
    I just don't get why the whole Threat Assessment functionality needs to be there. In a game where "risk vs reward" is one of their favourite catchphrases, surely it makes more sense to know less rather than more?

    I'd agree wholeheartedly if we could disable transmogs/cosmetics as I am of the opinion that they will be used to visually hide your gear setup.

    Yes we will get some kind of HUD element that shows the general stats but if there are unique items it will still be an issue since you can't disable other peoples transmog/cosmetics from you pov.

    Steven talks about players having a buff icon in the AMA video that shows type or gear, quality of gear, and if it is enchanted.
  • I understand how this sort of feature could be felt to be necessary in this post-transmog/glamour/whatever you want to call 'customizing visuals on armor' world we live in.

    I don't, however, have to like it. I prefer games with less readily apparent visual information when it comes to the strength and capabilities of players. I like games like Dark Age of Camelot where healers wear the same armor as tanks and can fool enemies into thinking they're tanks through nothing more than running at the front lines, completely antithetical to how one would expect a healer to behave, and completely throw off the enemy's melee assist train as a consequence because they run right past you, hunting for the cleric. That sort of "fog of war" approach to group combat is very enjoyable, because it tests your personal abilities of observation and communication.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Mowaby wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    I just don't get why the whole Threat Assessment functionality needs to be there. In a game where "risk vs reward" is one of their favourite catchphrases, surely it makes more sense to know less rather than more?

    I'd agree wholeheartedly if we could disable transmogs/cosmetics as I am of the opinion that they will be used to visually hide your gear setup.

    Yes we will get some kind of HUD element that shows the general stats but if there are unique items it will still be an issue since you can't disable other peoples transmog/cosmetics from you pov.

    Steven talks about players having a buff icon in the AMA video that shows type or gear, quality of gear, and if it is enchanted.
    This is literally the same system Archeage uses.

    It sort of works well enough to determine threat in PvP, but is used more as a status symbol of types, with people often taking worse items for their class just because it will increase this buff and make them appear better equipped - just as is the case with gear score.

    If Intrepid are set on not allowing people to see the armor a player is actually using - as opposed to their cosmetic - then this is an ok compromise. However, I find it extremely odd that they are not willing to hide cosmetics for this purpose, yet are more than willing to hide them for other purposes.
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