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Quest vs "Quest"
Amacq
Member
I’ve been a passionate MMO player for close to 20 years now. And I’m really excited for Ashes of Creation, seeing as there is clearly a dedication for making good decisions and a great MMO. Which is the reason why I’m bringing up this topic here, considering this is an overlooked issue that probably won’t ever be addressed by other MMOs due to rigid minded developers. I’m guessing there might be a lot of opinions on this topic, and I would love to hear different perspectives on it.
It is the issue of quests in MMOs and the fact that they are in most cases not quests at all. A quest per its definition, a quest is non-trivial, which is the literal opposite of what the typical quest has become. Killing 10 boars should not qualify as a quest unless it somehow forces you on a lengthy adventure for each of the boars that need to be slain. But to be fair, there are MMOs that make quests seem non-trivial. Such as the main stories in FFXIV, SWTOR or GW2. Though just because there is an incredible story with amazing cutscenes and intense battles, doesn’t change the fact that it is still in essence is “Talk with NPC” “Pick up x items” “Kill stuff” “Interact with object”. Basically still the typical trivial quest, but served in a fancy way. The context of why might be dramatically different, but the actual involvement and actions of the player are still the same. Similarly, the reward structure is also usually very static.
I know only of one MMO who has done questing right, at least for the most part. Though there might also be some older MMOs out there that I never tried that does this as well. The MMO I’m referring to is Runescape. In Runescape, quests are mostly not just a trivial thing you use as xp fodder, but an actual adventure. This means you often have to MacGyver yourself out of sticky situations by combining items, solving puzzles or go to tedious lengths and use your acquired skills to obtain specific items. A quest could last for hours without needing to be repetitive. And the reward structure feels very rewarding as it often goes beyond just a generic armor piece. You get access to new zones that might contain exclusive gathering resources or vendors, unique convenient items or systems with specific functions like easier travel or bonuses while fighting specific monsters or amulets for talking to cats. But there is a downside. Even though the quests are not directly mandatory, some players do feel forced to do specific quests for specific rewards even though they hate the chore of getting through them, even with a guide. On the other side, it is an incredibly enriching experience if you like the challenge. Where as most typical MMO quest feels like a braindead thing you do to get to somewhere you rather want to be. An obstacle to reaching the experience of the game as opposed to being an experience.
I don’t know how quests are planned to be incorporated into Ashes of Creation, though I hope there would be some thought put into it and at least elevate it above being an insignificant feature that is there just because typical MMO design says to insert mundane quest system because: tradition.
What thoughts do people have on this? I haven’t really noticed many people complaining about this. Am I crazy or are there others out there?
It is the issue of quests in MMOs and the fact that they are in most cases not quests at all. A quest per its definition, a quest is non-trivial, which is the literal opposite of what the typical quest has become. Killing 10 boars should not qualify as a quest unless it somehow forces you on a lengthy adventure for each of the boars that need to be slain. But to be fair, there are MMOs that make quests seem non-trivial. Such as the main stories in FFXIV, SWTOR or GW2. Though just because there is an incredible story with amazing cutscenes and intense battles, doesn’t change the fact that it is still in essence is “Talk with NPC” “Pick up x items” “Kill stuff” “Interact with object”. Basically still the typical trivial quest, but served in a fancy way. The context of why might be dramatically different, but the actual involvement and actions of the player are still the same. Similarly, the reward structure is also usually very static.
I know only of one MMO who has done questing right, at least for the most part. Though there might also be some older MMOs out there that I never tried that does this as well. The MMO I’m referring to is Runescape. In Runescape, quests are mostly not just a trivial thing you use as xp fodder, but an actual adventure. This means you often have to MacGyver yourself out of sticky situations by combining items, solving puzzles or go to tedious lengths and use your acquired skills to obtain specific items. A quest could last for hours without needing to be repetitive. And the reward structure feels very rewarding as it often goes beyond just a generic armor piece. You get access to new zones that might contain exclusive gathering resources or vendors, unique convenient items or systems with specific functions like easier travel or bonuses while fighting specific monsters or amulets for talking to cats. But there is a downside. Even though the quests are not directly mandatory, some players do feel forced to do specific quests for specific rewards even though they hate the chore of getting through them, even with a guide. On the other side, it is an incredibly enriching experience if you like the challenge. Where as most typical MMO quest feels like a braindead thing you do to get to somewhere you rather want to be. An obstacle to reaching the experience of the game as opposed to being an experience.
I don’t know how quests are planned to be incorporated into Ashes of Creation, though I hope there would be some thought put into it and at least elevate it above being an insignificant feature that is there just because typical MMO design says to insert mundane quest system because: tradition.
What thoughts do people have on this? I haven’t really noticed many people complaining about this. Am I crazy or are there others out there?
4
Comments
Runescape is the brightest beacon in quest design, but i suspect the reason for that is that making good quest content for that game is relatively easy compared to more modern games. It seems like the entire game is set up for the devs to be very creative with such content and make development requirements as low as possible in order to be able implement it as fast and easy as possible. Anything from adding new art assets, game systems, new mechanics and so on is just way more easier when the game looks and plays like crap.
Nevertheless i would love to see something similar in ashes, especially when it meshes well with the node system.
Not kill 10 of that or bring back 3 flowers and some milk or collect payment from the dress maker.
For me L2 did questing right. Their quests were for:
serious character progression
new loot tables at challenging hunting areas for great gear
access to new, difficult areas
access to elite gameplay (guild orginization, time dedication leading to great fame both for guild and individuals PvP/PvE)
Some quests were also extremely useful for new players.
Me: reads title
My brain:
You definitely not alone. Basic, handheld, easy-to-do quests are necessary for the casual majority. And advanced quests...I honestly think last time i've seen a MMORPG game with such quests was WoW classic and Lineage 2.
Contemporary game devs just afraid to add such quests, because modern casual mob, when faced with a quest like that one orc's wife (don't remember the name) in Wastelands in WoW (anyone who played should get what I am talking about), or the carrot quest in the same WoW - in short, the ones where you need to actually search for something, or compete with other players, or think with the brain. They will not blame the quest for being hard and will not try to overcome. They will blame the game for being bad instead.
Addition of such quests is what I am looking forward in AoC, but I know that realistically there is little hope that such quests will ever be added. Such are the times we live in.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Quests
The reason for this is that I was originally used to single-player games. And because I couldn't find the kind of content you mentioned.
As I've mentioned before in other threads, what I look for in an MMO is to be able to have the same experience as when I was a kid exploring the mountains and forests with my friends.
Suddenly, I grew up in the countryside of Japan.
The elementary school I attended was unusual in that it had a mountain on its grounds, and every day at lunchtime, I would take my friends to the mountain to climb trees and compete to see how fast we could climb the steep slopes.
Of course, the mountain didn't talk to us to make us do that, it just stood there and accepted us.
For me, the ideal MMO is to provide a place like that mountain, where we can play forever as long as we have imagination and curiosity.
An amusement park where you can passively enjoy yourself is not bad, but I still feel that it's not the same.
You can't build a secret base in the grounds of an amusement park.lol
When I was a student, I kept getting red marks in my English tests.
But I'm going to stay on this forum using the translation tool and enjoy the game because I think Ashes can be a mountain of acceptance for me.
Even if I can't put it into words, I'm sure there are many people who want the same kind of content in terms of feeling.
I'm looking forward to climbing the mountain with you.