I don't know what any of you have against fast travel. Some of us have only limited time to play the game. No-one actually has to use the fast travel. You don't like it, don't use it. You want to take 2 hours to get from point A to point B so you can enjoy the scenery. Go for it. Maybe for the non fast travel people you'll even gain some advantage and found quests along the way. That's great. I personally like fast travel.
This betrays an ignorance to how the state of modern MMO's have become so lackluster.
Retail WoW is such a spoonfed theme park because they catered slowly and bit by bit to players like you or with like mindsets. It's why there was such a huge call for them to make Classic servers. It's why people are so drawn to Ashes of Creation, because AoC is not spoonfeeding and creating bland hand-holdy experiences.
People always flout "Just don't use it then", but it's not even close to being that easy. Players and the community will always optimize the fun out of any game given any chance to. That's become irrefutable fact.
Sure some people will do what you say, but that's only people who don't care about keeping up with the community and are trying to play solo. And MMO's are and should not be made for solo players.
I feel that with a lack of ANY AND ALL fast travel, players may be inclined to sit really close to their home node's City
This *may* happen, but if it does, that just creates opportunity.
If I were playing a game where I spent a lot of my time on and around one of five cities, with each of those cities having unique content for each level range, I could see it being a really interesting adventure to spend some time getting ready, and then heading off to spend some time on the road, then spend a week at a different city.
You would have the opportunity to run content you wouldn't have seen, you can interact with players you've never heard of, and if it is a different node type, that would mean you have different amenities.
I dont think the game would be quite like this, as I wouldn't expect it to take that long to get around, but the general idea of this is still relevant that you would have your home node with its content, and heading off anywhere else is a bit of an adventure.
I feel that with a lack of ANY AND ALL fast travel, players may be inclined to sit really close to their home node's City
This *may* happen, but if it does, that just creates opportunity.
If I were playing a game where I spent a lot of my time on and around one of five cities, with each of those cities having unique content for each level range, I could see it being a really interesting adventure to spend some time getting ready, and then heading off to spend some time on the road, then spend a week at a different city.
You would have the opportunity to run content you wouldn't have seen, you can interact with players you've never heard of, and if it is a different node type, that would mean you have different amenities.
I dont think the game would be quite like this, as I wouldn't expect it to take that long to get around, but the general idea of this is still relevant that you would have your home node with its content, and heading off anywhere else is a bit of an adventure.
Also seeing as you get more gold the farther away from where you killed a monster when you sell it's resources you're going to get a lot of people at least traveling one node away at the minimum for extra cash
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Wandering MistModerator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I feel that with a lack of ANY AND ALL fast travel, players may be inclined to sit really close to their home node's City, and it'll dampen all aspects of the game anyways. We already see people afk in town for hours at a time at max level just due to not wanting to put in effort to go somewhere.
The few options that we'll have access to shouldn't be gamebreaking, as in whole guilds zerging a zone, but instead, be a minor convenience. And i think that's what the current FT vision is.
In a lot of modern mmorpgs players stay afk in the towns because there is no reason to go explore the open world. Everything of worth is in the dungeons and raids that you can teleport to. Again, this won't be the case in Ashes because of the need to gather resources in the open world for your node. The size of the world and the lack of a global auction house also means players will have to travel to get the things they need.
I feel that with a lack of ANY AND ALL fast travel, players may be inclined to sit really close to their home node's City, and it'll dampen all aspects of the game anyways. We already see people afk in town for hours at a time at max level just due to not wanting to put in effort to go somewhere.
The few options that we'll have access to shouldn't be gamebreaking, as in whole guilds zerging a zone, but instead, be a minor convenience. And i think that's what the current FT vision is.
Thats why we have mounts. To make our travels just that bit more faster, but still having to traverse them.
I feel that with a lack of ANY AND ALL fast travel, players may be inclined to sit really close to their home node's City, and it'll dampen all aspects of the game anyways. We already see people afk in town for hours at a time at max level just due to not wanting to put in effort to go somewhere.
Many will, but as Noaani points out, that will just create opportunity. Resources, mobs, content will all be spread far and wide, and just as many players will likely travel out to the most remote corners of the map to lay their claim, pitch their freeholds for a convenient base of operations, and capitalise on the advantages of being far from civilisation and having exclusive access to content most players will never even attempt to reach. Guilds may end up forming entire villages of freeholds in these remote areas.
Meanwhile, players who remain close to the cities will likely be faced with congestion and competition from every angle. Every resource they try to harvest will have dozens of other players competing to harvest the same thing, and players looking to steal their loot will congregate in these areas to catch them as they try to deliver their spoils. Eventually this may encourage more players to venture further out from the cities, either to play in peace, or simply find their own little piece of paradise to plant their freehold, forming a new base from which to venture out further.
an issue i see with fast travelling like this would be:
1. vast world created for players to explore, this would shorten it drastically.
2. just move resources faster and troll around caravans by filling your pockets and running
3. flee option in combat that players will use to run away instead of engaging or trying to avoid a run down
4. would create toxic gameplay
I think they should remove the current family summon or make it 24h or 48 hours colddown... I want as little fast travel as possible, people need to populate the world, walk around the map...
I get all the arguments, and it's not a deal breaker for me. I thought this was a place of discussion not vitriol to dissenting opinions. I've played pretty much every MMO that's ever been made. And some of you have made great arguments for not having it. Just expressing my opinion, I did not say P2W was what I wanted either, that's the default answer for everything if someone has a dissenting opinion I guess. In reference to the amount of time I have, that I shouldn't play at all is the solution. I enjoy playing games. It's the one thing I can do to relax and take my mind of my responsibilities. I just have very limited time. If I find that once in game I can't get anything done then I will move along. I look forward to actually playing the game to make a better determination of if it's the right game for me or not. I've already made the investment into the game. I especially liked this answer. Makes sense.
I feel that with a lack of ANY AND ALL fast travel, players may be inclined to sit really close to their home node's City, and it'll dampen all aspects of the game anyways. We already see people afk in town for hours at a time at max level just due to not wanting to put in effort to go somewhere.
The few options that we'll have access to shouldn't be gamebreaking, as in whole guilds zerging a zone, but instead, be a minor convenience. And i think that's what the current FT vision is.
I think the current systems are fine. There is only one change I would make to the family summon and that is to add a cool down to the summoned player instead of the summon skill.
I dont like most of what the OP is asking. The game limits this enough already and I do like your suggestion here that the timer not be on the skill but instead on the player.
I do feel like most people didn't bother to read the entire post.
TL;DR
you can have some "fast travel" but with high restriction.
YOU ARE UNABLE TO "Fast Travel" ANYWHERE IF YOU HAVE:
- Quest Items
- Gathering Mats
NEW - Dungeon Debuff (if you have entered a dungeon, you will receive a 3hr teleportation debuff. The timer only starts when you leave the dungeon and resets if you go back in. The timer also only goes down IN-GAME.)
NEW - potential "dungeon teleport" for X class - requires consumable and a "stone". Stones are located in safe spots inside the dungeon. the Consumable differs per dungeon and are only attainable inside said dungeon.
This consumable item disappears 30 mins leaving a dungeon.
Thus this prevents most of the concerns people have. Yet we can still restrict it even more, as some have suggested - with distances. The point is - chances are you won't be able to go back to youe home/city faster from gathering mats or doing a dungeon, but you may get to meet up with friends / group at entrance of dungeon. There is so much more restrictions to add and increase the COOLDOWN to a very high degree. 1 teleport every 12 INGAME hours or whatever. These are powerful spells and not something that can be abused or overly used on a consistent basis.
{UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
I do feel like most people didn't bother to read the entire post.
TL;DR
you can have some "fast travel" but with high restriction.
YOU ARE UNABLE TO "Fast Travel" ANYWHERE IF YOU HAVE:
- Quest Items
- Gathering Mats
NEW - Dungeon Debuff (if you have entered a dungeon, you will receive a 3hr teleportation debuff. The timer only starts when you leave the dungeon and resets if you go back in. The timer also only goes down IN-GAME.)
NEW - potential "dungeon teleport" for X class - requires consumable and a "stone". Stones are located in safe spots inside the dungeon. the Consumable differs per dungeon and are only attainable inside said dungeon.
This consumable item disappears 30 mins leaving a dungeon.
Thus this prevents most of the concerns people have. Yet we can still restrict it even more, as some have suggested - with distances. The point is - chances are you won't be able to go back to youe home/city faster from gathering mats or doing a dungeon, but you may get to meet up with friends / group at entrance of dungeon. There is so much more restrictions to add and increase the COOLDOWN to a very high degree. 1 teleport every 12 INGAME hours or whatever. These are powerful spells and not something that can be abused or overly used on a consistent basis.
No, we definitely read it and gave feedback.
Even if you can't bring things with you, the mere ability to travel anywhere with ease is detrimental to the immersion of a world. Even with a long cooldown.
It doesn't prevent any of the concerns people have been reiterating here about how it makes the world feel smaller, but people seem to be ignoring whenever anyone mentions this point.
It doesn't prevent the world between towns becoming irrelevant.
It seems more like you aren't reading the responses.
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited March 2021
Interesting how no/limited fast travel will pad out.. If XP can be obtained relatively quickly relative to loss at death, is there anything to stop players just dying so they can fast travel to the nearest destination (like in NW)?
here's an exploit, what's preventing people from summoning into a dungeon and funneling groups of players into the open world. where they then can re-enter a dungeon/instance and start summoning more players and so on.
EDIT:
this is another reason why summoning and teleporting players could be really bad for a game like ashes of creation.
here's an exploit, what's preventing people from summoning into a dungeon and funneling groups of players into the open world. where they then can re-enter a dungeon/instance and start summoning more players and so on.
EDIT:
this is another reason why summoning and teleporting players could be really bad for a game like ashes of creation.
I'm not sure what the exploit here is that you are talking about.
While I agree that fast travel in Ashes should be limited, I'm not convinced what you are talking about here would be an issue. Some clarification on what you mean may help me understand.
If this does indeed turn out to be an exploit that needs to be looked in to, I'd like to do so when I have access to testing. If I don't think it will be an exploit, I'd like to let you know why I think that way.
here's an exploit, what's preventing people from summoning into a dungeon and funneling groups of players into the open world. where they then can re-enter a dungeon/instance and start summoning more players and so on.
EDIT:
this is another reason why summoning and teleporting players could be really bad for a game like ashes of creation.
I'm not sure what the exploit here is that you are talking about.
While I agree that fast travel in Ashes should be limited, I'm not convinced what you are talking about here would be an issue. Some clarification on what you mean may help me understand.
If this does indeed turn out to be an exploit that needs to be looked in to, I'd like to do so when I have access to testing. If I don't think it will be an exploit, I'd like to let you know why I think that way.
imagine being summoned into an instance or dungeon. Then the group leaves the instance or dungeon and forms smaller groups and continues to summon more players to their now split parties in either the same or different dungeons. people summoning more people and so on is the exploitation concern.
EDIT:
eventually the players would just be summoning an army across the map backdooring the travelling and conquest mechanic/design
here's an exploit, what's preventing people from summoning into a dungeon and funneling groups of players into the open world. where they then can re-enter a dungeon/instance and start summoning more players and so on.
EDIT:
this is another reason why summoning and teleporting players could be really bad for a game like ashes of creation.
I'm not sure what the exploit here is that you are talking about.
While I agree that fast travel in Ashes should be limited, I'm not convinced what you are talking about here would be an issue. Some clarification on what you mean may help me understand.
If this does indeed turn out to be an exploit that needs to be looked in to, I'd like to do so when I have access to testing. If I don't think it will be an exploit, I'd like to let you know why I think that way.
imagine being summoned into an instance or dungeon. Then the group leaves the instance or dungeon and forms smaller groups and continues to summon more players to their now split parties in either the same or different dungeons. people summoning more people and so on is the exploitation concern.
EDIT:
eventually the players would just be summoning an army across the map backdooring the travelling and conquest mechanic/design
Since both the summoner and summonee need to be in the same family, and both group size and a family size is set to be 8 (afaik), and there is a stand-down period from leaving one family before joining another, this means that at most, you would only be able to summon one groups worth of players to you.
Since the only people that you can summon are in your family, and the only people those in your family can summon are also in your family, this means that basically, your family of 8 is a closed group of players able to summon each other, and no one else.
here's an exploit, what's preventing people from summoning into a dungeon and funneling groups of players into the open world. where they then can re-enter a dungeon/instance and start summoning more players and so on.
EDIT:
this is another reason why summoning and teleporting players could be really bad for a game like ashes of creation.
I'm not sure what the exploit here is that you are talking about.
While I agree that fast travel in Ashes should be limited, I'm not convinced what you are talking about here would be an issue. Some clarification on what you mean may help me understand.
If this does indeed turn out to be an exploit that needs to be looked in to, I'd like to do so when I have access to testing. If I don't think it will be an exploit, I'd like to let you know why I think that way.
imagine being summoned into an instance or dungeon. Then the group leaves the instance or dungeon and forms smaller groups and continues to summon more players to their now split parties in either the same or different dungeons. people summoning more people and so on is the exploitation concern.
EDIT:
eventually the players would just be summoning an army across the map backdooring the travelling and conquest mechanic/design
Since both the summoner and summonee need to be in the same family, and both group size and a family size is set to be 8 (afaik), and there is a stand-down period from leaving one family before joining another, this means that at most, you would only be able to summon one groups worth of players to you.
Since the only people that you can summon are in your family, and the only people those in your family can summon are also in your family, this means that basically, your family of 8 is a closed group of players able to summon each other, and no one else.
interesting!
I've been through a few discussions on here where people want other various forms of teleportation and summoning mechanics.
this is why community discussions are fun
Thank you for the information. This definitely puts this specific mechanic in to perspective.
EDIT:
so i was doing some brainstorming.
so in theory, if you have a raid/party with say 1-2 members each from different families. they could in theory all summon 6-7 additional players each from within the same family?
so multiple families could in fact multiply the raid number by 6-7 (depending on summoning rules and numbers)
still seems like a exploit issue unless further details are presented on the conditions for said summoning of family members
Since the only people that you can summon are in your family, and the only people those in your family can summon are also in your family, this means that basically, your family of 8 is a closed group of players able to summon each other, and no one else.
This is why I think top guilds will require everyone in the guild to have alts at strategic locations. In this way, literally the entire guild can family summon across the map to any strategic location. And thanks to the flexibility of family summoning, those locations could be anywhere, and could change anytime depending on the guild's needs.
Since the only people that you can summon are in your family, and the only people those in your family can summon are also in your family, this means that basically, your family of 8 is a closed group of players able to summon each other, and no one else.
This is why I think top guilds will require everyone in the guild to have alts at strategic locations.
If there is an advantage to be had by this, we will.
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FuryBladeborneMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Since the only people that you can summon are in your family, and the only people those in your family can summon are also in your family, this means that basically, your family of 8 is a closed group of players able to summon each other, and no one else.
This is why I think top guilds will require everyone in the guild to have alts at strategic locations. In this way, literally the entire guild can family summon across the map to any strategic location. And thanks to the flexibility of family summoning, those locations could be anywhere, and could change anytime depending on the guild's needs.
That's interesting. Online games generally block opening a second instance of the game on the same computer. Of course the alts will have to be on a separate account from the character being summoned. So, every person in the guild will need 2 desktop computers each running a separate account to meet the summoning requirements.
I'm glad I never join guilds with such high expectations.
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The workaround we used in L2 with characters that could summon, on one account, was simply to have your alt summon someone else's.. and then a pair or more were placed at strategic places to start porting in the rest.
Something will be worked out by the community to maximise every opportunity, one way or another.. for good use and bad!
Yeah, you could even use a virtual machine with a vpn to get around application instancing locks and ip locks.
Another problem is that family summon alts can basically be un-killable unless you can flag them somehow before attacking. The way to do this is to never level up the alts from lvl 1. That way, if anyone kills the alt, they will get a massive corruption penalty, which totally gimps their character. So you'll end up with these un-killable teleportation trojan horses running around teleporting their guildies in wherever they want.
The only way that Intrepid can stop family summoning from being exploited is to not have it in the game at all, or nerf it to the point that it is next to useless for everyone (which kind of defeats the point for casual players).
Since the only people that you can summon are in your family, and the only people those in your family can summon are also in your family, this means that basically, your family of 8 is a closed group of players able to summon each other, and no one else.
This is why I think top guilds will require everyone in the guild to have alts at strategic locations. In this way, literally the entire guild can family summon across the map to any strategic location. And thanks to the flexibility of family summoning, those locations could be anywhere, and could change anytime depending on the guild's needs.
That's interesting. Online games generally block opening a second instance of the game on the same computer. Of course the alts will have to be on a separate account from the character being summoned. So, every person in the guild will need 2 desktop computers each running a separate account to meet the summoning requirements.
I'm glad I never join guilds with such high expectations.
Most gamers I know have their desktop, as well as access to at least one modern laptop.
Comments
This betrays an ignorance to how the state of modern MMO's have become so lackluster.
Retail WoW is such a spoonfed theme park because they catered slowly and bit by bit to players like you or with like mindsets. It's why there was such a huge call for them to make Classic servers. It's why people are so drawn to Ashes of Creation, because AoC is not spoonfeeding and creating bland hand-holdy experiences.
People always flout "Just don't use it then", but it's not even close to being that easy. Players and the community will always optimize the fun out of any game given any chance to. That's become irrefutable fact.
Sure some people will do what you say, but that's only people who don't care about keeping up with the community and are trying to play solo. And MMO's are and should not be made for solo players.
Edit: If you need a video explanation, this video does a good job of doing so
If I were playing a game where I spent a lot of my time on and around one of five cities, with each of those cities having unique content for each level range, I could see it being a really interesting adventure to spend some time getting ready, and then heading off to spend some time on the road, then spend a week at a different city.
You would have the opportunity to run content you wouldn't have seen, you can interact with players you've never heard of, and if it is a different node type, that would mean you have different amenities.
I dont think the game would be quite like this, as I wouldn't expect it to take that long to get around, but the general idea of this is still relevant that you would have your home node with its content, and heading off anywhere else is a bit of an adventure.
Also seeing as you get more gold the farther away from where you killed a monster when you sell it's resources you're going to get a lot of people at least traveling one node away at the minimum for extra cash
In a lot of modern mmorpgs players stay afk in the towns because there is no reason to go explore the open world. Everything of worth is in the dungeons and raids that you can teleport to. Again, this won't be the case in Ashes because of the need to gather resources in the open world for your node. The size of the world and the lack of a global auction house also means players will have to travel to get the things they need.
Thats why we have mounts. To make our travels just that bit more faster, but still having to traverse them.
Meanwhile, players who remain close to the cities will likely be faced with congestion and competition from every angle. Every resource they try to harvest will have dozens of other players competing to harvest the same thing, and players looking to steal their loot will congregate in these areas to catch them as they try to deliver their spoils. Eventually this may encourage more players to venture further out from the cities, either to play in peace, or simply find their own little piece of paradise to plant their freehold, forming a new base from which to venture out further.
1. vast world created for players to explore, this would shorten it drastically.
2. just move resources faster and troll around caravans by filling your pockets and running
3. flee option in combat that players will use to run away instead of engaging or trying to avoid a run down
4. would create toxic gameplay
I completely agree. I want a game that forces me to play the damn thing.
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[NA] [18+] - We need EVERYONE!
If you want in, send me a message!
I dont like most of what the OP is asking. The game limits this enough already and I do like your suggestion here that the timer not be on the skill but instead on the player.
Shaladoor's world UBER service, coming soon to Verra!
TL;DR
you can have some "fast travel" but with high restriction.
YOU ARE UNABLE TO "Fast Travel" ANYWHERE IF YOU HAVE:
- Quest Items
- Gathering Mats
NEW - Dungeon Debuff (if you have entered a dungeon, you will receive a 3hr teleportation debuff. The timer only starts when you leave the dungeon and resets if you go back in. The timer also only goes down IN-GAME.)
NEW - potential "dungeon teleport" for X class - requires consumable and a "stone". Stones are located in safe spots inside the dungeon. the Consumable differs per dungeon and are only attainable inside said dungeon.
This consumable item disappears 30 mins leaving a dungeon.
Thus this prevents most of the concerns people have. Yet we can still restrict it even more, as some have suggested - with distances. The point is - chances are you won't be able to go back to youe home/city faster from gathering mats or doing a dungeon, but you may get to meet up with friends / group at entrance of dungeon. There is so much more restrictions to add and increase the COOLDOWN to a very high degree. 1 teleport every 12 INGAME hours or whatever. These are powerful spells and not something that can be abused or overly used on a consistent basis.
No, we definitely read it and gave feedback.
Even if you can't bring things with you, the mere ability to travel anywhere with ease is detrimental to the immersion of a world. Even with a long cooldown.
It doesn't prevent any of the concerns people have been reiterating here about how it makes the world feel smaller, but people seem to be ignoring whenever anyone mentions this point.
It doesn't prevent the world between towns becoming irrelevant.
It seems more like you aren't reading the responses.
EDIT:
this is another reason why summoning and teleporting players could be really bad for a game like ashes of creation.
I'm not sure what the exploit here is that you are talking about.
While I agree that fast travel in Ashes should be limited, I'm not convinced what you are talking about here would be an issue. Some clarification on what you mean may help me understand.
If this does indeed turn out to be an exploit that needs to be looked in to, I'd like to do so when I have access to testing. If I don't think it will be an exploit, I'd like to let you know why I think that way.
imagine being summoned into an instance or dungeon. Then the group leaves the instance or dungeon and forms smaller groups and continues to summon more players to their now split parties in either the same or different dungeons. people summoning more people and so on is the exploitation concern.
EDIT:
eventually the players would just be summoning an army across the map backdooring the travelling and conquest mechanic/design
Since both the summoner and summonee need to be in the same family, and both group size and a family size is set to be 8 (afaik), and there is a stand-down period from leaving one family before joining another, this means that at most, you would only be able to summon one groups worth of players to you.
Since the only people that you can summon are in your family, and the only people those in your family can summon are also in your family, this means that basically, your family of 8 is a closed group of players able to summon each other, and no one else.
interesting!
I've been through a few discussions on here where people want other various forms of teleportation and summoning mechanics.
this is why community discussions are fun
Thank you for the information. This definitely puts this specific mechanic in to perspective.
EDIT:
so i was doing some brainstorming.
so in theory, if you have a raid/party with say 1-2 members each from different families. they could in theory all summon 6-7 additional players each from within the same family?
so multiple families could in fact multiply the raid number by 6-7 (depending on summoning rules and numbers)
still seems like a exploit issue unless further details are presented on the conditions for said summoning of family members
This is why I think top guilds will require everyone in the guild to have alts at strategic locations. In this way, literally the entire guild can family summon across the map to any strategic location. And thanks to the flexibility of family summoning, those locations could be anywhere, and could change anytime depending on the guild's needs.
That's interesting. Online games generally block opening a second instance of the game on the same computer. Of course the alts will have to be on a separate account from the character being summoned. So, every person in the guild will need 2 desktop computers each running a separate account to meet the summoning requirements.
I'm glad I never join guilds with such high expectations.
Something will be worked out by the community to maximise every opportunity, one way or another.. for good use and bad!
Another problem is that family summon alts can basically be un-killable unless you can flag them somehow before attacking. The way to do this is to never level up the alts from lvl 1. That way, if anyone kills the alt, they will get a massive corruption penalty, which totally gimps their character. So you'll end up with these un-killable teleportation trojan horses running around teleporting their guildies in wherever they want.
The only way that Intrepid can stop family summoning from being exploited is to not have it in the game at all, or nerf it to the point that it is next to useless for everyone (which kind of defeats the point for casual players).
This just means it takes a few hours of prep work in order to be able to use the exploit, it doesn't prevent it.
Most gamers I know have their desktop, as well as access to at least one modern laptop.
That is all that is needed.