One concern i have.....

So i watched the developer Q&A today and i heard the developers talking about their referral system....

My concern is this, before the game even has a working version of the UI, or anything else for that matter...they're already talking about having a cosmetic shop. Seems like the priorities are a little messed up even this early. Not firing off or anything but....i'm already concerned.

Comments

  • A reasonable concern to have. I wouldn't be too bothered by it though. That is the norm these days. In-game shops and micro transactions. It'd be more alarming if they made zero mention of any kind of shop in my opinion. As long as it is strictly for vanities purpose then I say add all the silly hats they want. In the end, the game will be good (or bad) regardless. As long as there are no in-game benefits that promote a pay to win environment I could not care less. Like I said, a reasonable concern but I wouldn't let something like that put you off as that is something they likely get asked about often hence why they already have an answer.
  • Well I have to agree with <strong>Epidor</strong>. The common thing is that a company would like to earn money. Old concepts, like Blizzard has with the early days of WoW are long gone now.

    Check the upcoming / failed IP's:

    <strong>Crowfall</strong>: buy yourself a castle, no, multiple castles for thousands of dollars, and be very happy about it.

    <strong>Star Citizen</strong>: countless money was poured into that game, basically everyone involved bought at least 1 spaceship. I mean, sure, they do what they want, but developing of that game is already took years, and I am not sure it will be released in a comforting way. I'd love to see a sci-fi MMO with a concept Star Citizen aims, but is seems it won't be SC.

    <strong>Firefall</strong>: school example, how to destroy an almost perfect concept. We first raised our eyebrows, when cosmetics shop appeared in one of the earliest versions of the game, instead of fixing the overwhelming bugs took place in the game. No, instead of this, they became greedy.

    <strong>Everquest Landmark / Landmark</strong>: Also a nice idea behind this "game". It seemed for me first, that it can turn out a fun game for notorious diggers / miners / harvesters like myself. What it turned out was a disaster. they shut it down eventually. But before of that, you were able to buy 50$ "founder" packs, now you can wave goodbye for your money...

    I understand, that the company needs money for development / payments etc., but still. At leas wait for the damn final release of the game. You don't have the full funds to develop a game? Then please, don't even start it. Go for Kickstarter of whatever. There are plenty of options nowadays. One thing is not an option: fill people with false dreams, and in the end, companies just "<em>oh well, it did not turned out like as we planned, soooory</em>", well, thanks.

    I want to play a decent game, with balanced combat systems, great-looking 3D models, amazing animations and destructible environment. It will cost 12$ a month? So be it. Make it 20$. For a good game, I'll pay 20$, and I am sure, that lot of ppl. thinks the same out there.
  • It's good to voice concerns for stuff that isn't to prominent in information right now.
    I would like to point out that they didn't/don't have an UI guy as Steven admited himself. They are in the process of doubleing their team so maybe one is on board by now. Talking early on and showing/telling us where they want to go is the whole idea about being open in development, we won't just get some nasty surprises when it's already to late.
    So having a comment on the cashshop is basicly no work and I see no harm in that or any priorities revealed for that matter. It was a heads up, "it will be there".

    I only found one of the statements in discord about that, I know there is another one, but I have a feeling it was in the discord Q&A, I will paraphrase it.

    1: When asked about costumes and exclusiveness to the cash shops
    Steven 18/1/2017
    "There will be a balance. Players will have a wide range of cosmetics available through in-game accomplishment and progression, as well as a wide variety of purchasable cosmetics for players who are more casual and would prefer to support the game through the cash shop. Either way, player customization will be achievable from a cosmetic standpoint readily throughout the game."

    2: I remember him saying that costumes will mostly be colourvariantions and irl holiday themed things that don't fit into the game itselfe.

    I hope this eases the concern a bit regarding "we will have a cash shop purely for cosmetic vanity items"


    Grisu aka. Zekece
  • Now try to look at it from the exact opposite side.
    Referral program and p2w concerns are one of the first things developer are talking about. It's not because they will make the game p2w, it's because 99% of the community is concerned about that matter and maybe thats why they talk about it on very first stages of the game?

    If I were to make an MMO, first thing I would do is making sure it's not gonna be p2w because that's exactly what players don't want to see. Imagine, they are making the game with not a single word/comment on p2w and cash shop, game is almost ready and you still don't know the business model and what the referral program is. So I think it's good they are pointing out how the business model will be at this early stage.

    Also I like the fact that they call it cosmetic shop, not "cash shop".
  • Excellent time to bring up such concerns. Though I don't share that one in particular for the following reasons:

    1) They have succinctly stated their business model is subscription based. Which the referral system is an excellent component of generating a larger paying base. Considering how much of anathema P2W is, many would be find with a subscription model wouldn't even give this the time of day.

    2) Everything I have seen, and read from them shows them committed to their business model and an aversion to the F2P/P2W models.

    3) Looking at the background of the developers it is easy to see they have ample experience in what works, and what eventually fails. My family, and I were very pleased to see what looks like EQN Rise from the Ashes if you will. Doubt they will make the same mistakes as their former employers.

    4) Cosmetic shop is entirely expected, and could be quite interesting. People like stuff like that. Be it pets, outfits, different mounts, etc. Though I have never bought any of the mounts, or pets from the WoW shop I thought they were rather cool. As far as I have read to date, as AeonAuron stated, they are consistent in their view as a cosmetic only shop.

    Hope this helps.

    Locke
  • I know this is something that I brought up to Steven several times where while I would prefer there not to be ANY microtransaction it just seems like the world refuses to do that anymore but as long as they don't get The Elder Scrolls Online route where their cash shop is 100% cosmetic but there are no new mounts/pets/costumes/etc added to the game outside of their Cash Shop which is a sad state for my favorite MMORPG out right now.
  • When you start up a new firm, one of the first thing you discuss, is the business model.
    I bet all publishers know their business model early on, but not all reveal it to the public until later on.
    I like Intrepid is very transparent of whatever they do. Steven gladly answers any concerns about the referral program and business model (like he have done on MMORPG.com). Like said above, then we don't get any surprises later on.

    Besides, the main thing everyone asks about when they hear about a new game, is the business model.
    So having that on the table early on, i'm really happy about. I would be sad if they revealed the business model later on and it turned out to be P2W. Then I would have wasted my time following a game, I would certainly not play because of P2W!
  • UI is a priority lower than the cosmetic shop. I could play a game with a terrible UI and still use a cosmetic shop rather than having a amazing UI and not being able to buy what I want from the shop.
  • [quote quote=4893]UI is a priority lower than the cosmetic shop. I could play a game with a terrible UI and still use a cosmetic shop rather than having a amazing UI and not being able to buy what I want from the shop.

    [/quote]

    You know UI doesn't mean just pretty graphics right ? Imagine yourself buying a new 4k monitor and the GUI scales up so the portrait and hp/mana bars go in the middle of your screen, over your char. Enjoy your pretty cosmetics then. I am saying that developing a good UI takes lots and lots of time and efforts (graphics are just small part of it)
  • It's a legitimate concern, especially given that I believe the devs are have stated they will follow the traditional monthly fee payment model. So long as any cosmetic items in the cash shop are available through simply playing the game (and within reasonable in-game prices) then I won't really mind if casual players have a slightly quicker way to access purely cosmetic items. Cosmetic items aren't a huge priority to me, but the reason I'm ok paying a monthly fee for a MMO is so that I have full access to all content without consideration for individual transactions for things I may want. I would quickly cancel my time in this game if I were asked to support the game via a monthly fee and still provide money to a cash shop for <strong>any</strong> item that was not accessible through my monthly payment.
  • Personally, I don't have an issue with a monthly fee and also having a cash shop. What would turn me off is if there is not a balance between the two. For example, all of the new mounts / pets / furniture / costumes / what-have-you are only introduced in the cash shop. However I doubt that will happen. It seems that a lot of thought is going into AOC. The Devs are seeing what works and what doesn't from the multitude of MMORPGs that have come before.

    I honestly tend to play all MMOs with my fiancé so Xmas time and B-days seem to include items from the Cash shop of whatever MMO we are playing at the time. Oh, oh! For the Cash Shop, please make all items giftable! ;) Even better would be if I could buy a gift, have it in my inventory and THEN decide who I would like to give it to would be great! Imagine the opportunities for player-created contests! PVP brawls, Scavenge hunts, etc could have a Cash Shop gift as the top prize! Just the thought makes me drool. (I like giving and interacting with cool players. ;)
  • [quote quote=5153] Even better would be if I could buy a gift, have it in my inventory and THEN decide who I would like to give it to would be great! Imagine the opportunities for player-created contests! PVP brawls, Scavenge hunts, etc could have a Cash Shop gift as the top prize! Just the thought makes me drool. (I like giving and interacting with cool players. <img alt="?" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f609.svg" />

    [/quote]

    Just need to do away with BOP items (which I personally hate) and make them all BOE or even better it takes a period to fully bind. That way (if we are talking purely cosmetic) I equip a new chestpiece or weapon and look at it on my character for awhile...I realize I dont like it after all so I want to get rid of it. If the binding process takes, say 2 hours or so then I have those 2 hours to decide if I really do like that item or if I want to put it back on the market to sell.

    I personally think that the only BOP items in any game should be given as achievement awards and then only for epic achievements, not "Kill 10 rats" ones. If a crafter learns all 1 kajillion recipes for their craft they get some awesome looking armor/gathering tool something and it is BOP. Cant trade it then and have some rookie alchemist waving around the top-end gear like he earned it.
  • The cash shop is the least of my concerns because I play FFXIV and they have a sub plus cash shop. The Cash shop is just all cosmetic stuff that a handful of people care about like my wife who likes to do the glamour. When it comes to the Kickstarter that is what I am the most concerned about. What happens to those people who donate $12,000? Do they get everything in game and get a node that can never be taken because they spent that type of money? Do they get Health pots that they can use every minute and restore them to full health? The Kickstarter is where people can get really end up being the P2W aspect vs just going with 3 or 4 tiers of Pre-order and letting people buy cosmetic things off the cash shop.

    Yea the pre-orders will let people into Alpha and Beta BUT at least you know if you sell 100,000 Units you are getting X amount of revenue. Then you plan around using that revenue to get the game out. You do not worry about getting more money until you get a base game out. If that base game is good you charge $25 per sub which I would happily pay for; for a good MMORPG. Then I will even spend money in the cash shop as long as it is cosmetic or boost crafting storage :) So you can put more content into the game.

    I did a kickstarter with SOTA and got burned. I have friends who did the Star Citizen kickstarter and got burned. So yea this is more of a concern to me than anything else.
  • will there be oceans and ships and pirates?
  • Valid concern have the devs responded at all yet?
  • This is normal. It's ideal to design out the whole game before you start development. It's not weird that the designers decided on a strategy to monetize the game while devs started making the game. You shouldn't create a game and then decide how you are going to sell it.
  • You can look at it two ways. You can either be concerned, as you are, that they're already thinking of other ways to get that sweet green out of your wallet besides the subscription cost <strong>OR</strong> you can view it as them following through with their commitment to transparency and a sign of good things to come.

    Their honesty on the subject, for me at least, is rather reassuring. Far too many times have I seen devs palm the question of cash shop content off under the guise of some generic response like "we haven't decided" or "we're not ready to disclose that information just yet" or everyone's favourite "information on the cash shop will be coming soon!" in order to hide the true content for as long as possible, allowing time for the players to become invested in the game and the community and then ultimately having to accept the inevitable kick in the teeth when shady devs do release the content of the cash shop.

    And another thing, I don't believe devs go into development of a game without thinking of the cash flow, and how they're going to make their investment back. Which ever base model they choose, f2p, sub, p2p, the inevitable question of a cash shop will always enter the frame because it's pretty much standard now in most games. Whether game developers choose to implement one or not is another matter, but at least now with AoC you know where they stand on the subject and you know what to expect in terms of cash shop content.
  • You can look at it two ways. You can either be concerned, as you are, that they're already thinking of other ways to get that sweet green out of your wallet besides the subscription cost <strong>OR</strong> you can view it as them following through with their commitment to transparency and a sign of good things to come.

    Their honesty on the subject, for me at least, is rather reassuring. Far too many times have I seen devs palm the question of cash shop content off under the guise of some generic response like "we haven't decided" or "we're not ready to disclose that information just yet" or everyone's favourite "information on the cash shop will be coming soon!" in order to hide the true content for as long as possible, allowing time for the players to become invested in the game and the community and then ultimately having to accept the inevitable kick in the teeth when shady devs do release the content of the cash shop.

    And another thing, I don't believe devs go into development of a game without thinking of the cash flow, and how they're going to make their investment back. Which ever base model they choose, f2p, sub, p2p, the inevitable question of a cash shop will always enter the frame because it's pretty much standard now in most games. Whether game developers choose to implement one or not is another matter, but at least now with AoC you know where they stand on the subject and you know what to expect in terms of cash shop content.

    (Detects this as a duplicate post without this here...)
  • After myself getting burned by games, I totally understand your concern and share it. I'm going to be a bit gun-shy about any game with an item shops because it's just literally one step away from P2W.

    However, I would much rather be informed about it earlier rather than later and be told it's going to be restricted to cosmetic items only.

    I also felt now was a good time to announce it since I'd rather they have a solid pay structure in place. I am always wary of a product that the seller is secretive about. Glad we at least are being told what we will be getting .
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