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My issue with the cosmetic packs and its current state.
90Bubbel
Member
Hi so i am generally interested in the game and have thought about possibly purchase a alpha key but there is a thing just throwing me off.
Well first of all, the cosmetic preorder system is giving me high heaven red flags, i understand its "just" cosmetics you can get if you want to support the game but this is quite absurd.
First we have the number of cosmetics which are being timegated. Im not quite sure when the preorder packs started so lets just say that they started selling them in the start of 2019 and that the game releases in the start of 2022, each month a pack of 6 exclusive cosmetics is put out, so 6x12x4=288, Thats 288 cosmetics which you will never be able to aquire, this also leads into my next point.
The prices, the prices of the cosmetic packs are absolutely INSANE, the most expensive pack (which features all cosmetic of that month) is 375 usd each. Just for a comparison, im 21 and unable to work because of a chronic illness so i get around 1k usd each month (i still study and live at home) thats almost 40% of my income in a month, Yes, i dont have a especially high income but its still insane, (dont think im salty because i cant afford the pack, i can if i wanted to). The game was mainly funded from the start of development so how come the prices are so disgustingly high?
The next thing being locking cosmetics together. I would be fine with higher prices of cosmetic packs if i could actually buy what i wanted instead of being forced to buy a pack for almost 400 usd. For example, i might just want the outfit or the mount skin, why are they locked in tiers? i know you can buy things seperatly up to the tier that you have bought earlier packs, but why? if i see a cool outfit i like, why am i being forced to spend 375 usd when i might just like thing in the pack?
I know steven and the other developers have talked about daily logins and how they dislike the about daily login rewards because it pressures people to login just to login for the reward and not to actually play the game. For having so strong opinons about not wanting to pressure people with daily logins they certainly do not seem to have anything about abusing the fear of missing out for cosmetics.
Im sure lots of you are saying its just cosmetics, there will be others and its cool with exclusivity, which i agree with, its fine but i feel like this is just way overboard, so many cosmetics which could have just been placed as rewards in the actual game and not locked behind a extremely high timegate.
Dont get me wrong, i really want this game to suceed and be as good as it can be but these are just ringing alarm bells in my entire head, if im wrong, Great but that will also mean i lost the chance to get some awesome cosmetics because of the poorly designed system. I would love to hear from the devs what the reason is for locking cosmetics into packs and why they are so expensive.
Well first of all, the cosmetic preorder system is giving me high heaven red flags, i understand its "just" cosmetics you can get if you want to support the game but this is quite absurd.
First we have the number of cosmetics which are being timegated. Im not quite sure when the preorder packs started so lets just say that they started selling them in the start of 2019 and that the game releases in the start of 2022, each month a pack of 6 exclusive cosmetics is put out, so 6x12x4=288, Thats 288 cosmetics which you will never be able to aquire, this also leads into my next point.
The prices, the prices of the cosmetic packs are absolutely INSANE, the most expensive pack (which features all cosmetic of that month) is 375 usd each. Just for a comparison, im 21 and unable to work because of a chronic illness so i get around 1k usd each month (i still study and live at home) thats almost 40% of my income in a month, Yes, i dont have a especially high income but its still insane, (dont think im salty because i cant afford the pack, i can if i wanted to). The game was mainly funded from the start of development so how come the prices are so disgustingly high?
The next thing being locking cosmetics together. I would be fine with higher prices of cosmetic packs if i could actually buy what i wanted instead of being forced to buy a pack for almost 400 usd. For example, i might just want the outfit or the mount skin, why are they locked in tiers? i know you can buy things seperatly up to the tier that you have bought earlier packs, but why? if i see a cool outfit i like, why am i being forced to spend 375 usd when i might just like thing in the pack?
I know steven and the other developers have talked about daily logins and how they dislike the about daily login rewards because it pressures people to login just to login for the reward and not to actually play the game. For having so strong opinons about not wanting to pressure people with daily logins they certainly do not seem to have anything about abusing the fear of missing out for cosmetics.
Im sure lots of you are saying its just cosmetics, there will be others and its cool with exclusivity, which i agree with, its fine but i feel like this is just way overboard, so many cosmetics which could have just been placed as rewards in the actual game and not locked behind a extremely high timegate.
Dont get me wrong, i really want this game to suceed and be as good as it can be but these are just ringing alarm bells in my entire head, if im wrong, Great but that will also mean i lost the chance to get some awesome cosmetics because of the poorly designed system. I would love to hear from the devs what the reason is for locking cosmetics into packs and why they are so expensive.
2
Comments
So remember that with these pre-purchase packs you are also getting more than just cosmetics. Let's break it down.
For the $375 Voyager Pack, you get:
9 months of game time ($135 value)
$125 in Embers (in-game marketplace credits)
Access to Alpha 2, Beta 1, and Beta 2 (which is basically free in game time, though with a lesser product)
So that within itself is 260 dollars of actual value which will be put forth in the actual game (plus the Alpha and Beta play times, which would give you an edge over those who haven't played any version of the game).
So yea, you are still paying over 100 dollars just for cosmetics, but for someone like myself who feels extremely passionate about this game, it is worth it.
I understand everyone's financial circumstances are different, but I believe these packages are worth it and I would like to support this product as much as I can.
On this topic, I'm not sure I agree. I think that they are purposely making it so that only the full packs are available, for the exact reason you stated. They don't want to sell these piecemeal, they want people who pre-purchase to have a purely unique and amazing set of cosmetics that aren't watered down by people being able to purchase the bits and pieces they want for less money.
To me, its exciting to see a game that is placing value on unique cosmetics with a promise to not reintroduce them later on.
♥ In The Name Of Venus, I'll Punish You! ♥
https://instagram.com/theblazedace/
"There will be variants of the monthly cosmetics for NPCs and Mobs.[6][10]
Component pieces of cosmetic armor may be reused in other in-game achievable gear sets.[6]
Different variants of store purchased cosmetic creatures (Pets and Mounts) may exist in the wild.[11]"
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Cosmetics
So, the sets are not essentially wasted after the monthly sale.
The development of the game is fully funded, so supporting the game is optional. It will launch regardless. Of course, that does not mean that additional revenue isn't helpful.
"I'm personally funding the project to completion, so that's not the issue"-Steven Sharif
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Talk:2020-07-25_Live_AMA_with_Steven_Sharif
As far as the pricing for individual cosmetics goes, high prices do restrict the number of people with any given item and exclusivity is a focus in this game.
"The exclusive nature of the limited availability is something I think collectors value. If you buy cosmetics as an MMO player, I know I enjoyed if the cosmetic is rare and not every girl at the party is wearing the same dress."
-Steven Sharif
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Cosmetics
However, I am sure that the package deals are simply a system of extracting more from those that are willing to pay than they otherwise would. I know it worked on me.
I hear ya. One reason given was to provide casual people with little time a way to acquire cosmetics. Can't say I agree with the philosophy behind it, but the store's not going anywhere.
My hope at this point is that we'll see a comparable number of achievable cosmetics in game. I'm just afraid when they say achievable 'legendary' cosmetics in game that it means 'extremely limited number'. If the store ends up with 50 cosmetic outfits while there are only, say, 10 achievable in game, I'll be really disappointed as a player with limited funds but looking for a wide range of cosmetics to choose (one or two) from and put time and effort into acquiring.
If you suffer from fomo, that is on you, not on Intrepid.
If this is a problem for you, get some help. Don't go out accusing companies that offer limited time products of abusing a problem you have that you should deal with. This is either a disingenuous argument, or purposefully dishonest.
Once you have a pack, you can buy the cosmetics individually up to the level of the pack you have. It cost $115 to buy all 6 cosmetics this month, not $375.
I would like you to consider and appreciate all the these cosmetic packs are doing for the game. They allow Intrepid Games(IG) to be financially comfortable and independent without the aid of non-player outside investors/publishers bringing their opinions on how to manage/develop the game to the table.
Remember IG is trying to break into a industry and redefine a genre at the same time. For them to do so they need to be in a financially comfortable position to take on all of the extra risks associated with a project. I want Ashes to succeed and if that means I have to throw down a few bucks if I see a cosmetic I like on a case by case basis. Than that is fine.
Remember,
It could be pay to win.
It could be loot boxes.
It could be a struggling DEV team.
Right now it is none of those things, and the game looks promising.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
The current cosmetics packs aren't aimed at people like you and me, @90Bubbel . They're aimed at people with money to burn. Our udders don't flow fast enough. I mean, spending even $15 every month is essentially like paying the game subscription without getting the game. If you can afford it, then why the hell not. But for you and me, it's not practical just yet. Our time will come.
And your logic goes the other way around aswell ,if you feel pressured by daily login bonuses thats on you aswell but yet they are thinking about i
how so? you still need to buy atleast one pack for 375 usd to be able to get all types of cosmetics.
i see
yeah thats some of my fears aswell
i suppose, i seem to have missed/forgot about getting ingame credits which is quite a bit
Whether or not the cosmetics are "expensive" is subjective. I'm really happy (and grateful) that others are able to support the game in this way and get something of value in return, without it being p2w.
I won't be buying any cosmetics because I've got 2 (-ish) years to save up for a new gaming PC.
If that means that I have to play Ashes looking like Minecraft Steve or Alex then so be it! <joke> - I know it won't be that bad.
As far as FOMO is concerned, I've lived my life so far without owning a single super car and never once felt that it was unfair. I manage my expectations from life realistically based on my available finances.
Once you buy a pack then you have the option of buying (some / all) individual cosmetics in future months.
It is explained better here:
https://www.ashes101.com/store
Yes! And it's gonna be a beauty!
The OP has visited the forum 4 times and earned a ten comments badge, many of those comments are in this discussion. It is fair to assume that the OP hasn't done a lot of research before forming their opinions.
I agree with the first half of your post, I just don't get pissed off (general case) when random internet people spout opinion as fact or lay responsibility for their life on someone else. I expect random internet people to talk garbage and allow myself to be pleasantly surprised if they don't. I'm quite happy to hand out likes if I agree with the general gist of someone's post.
The second part of his discussion isn't disingenuous, it just isn't grounded in fact. I think the OP believes their opinions fully. No one is forcing them to buy "insanely" expensive cosmetics and you are right to point out that cosmetic FOMO is their problem. We cannot compare shop cosmetics with in-game cosmetics yet but Steven has said something like "in-game cosmetics will be equivalent to those in the shop", so this also points towards a lack of research by the OP and may alleviate any genuine cosmetic FOMO.
Overall I agree with you, but I'd prefer to just point out the facts that the OP hasn't researched, so with that in mind let's see if we can improve future posts for anyone new that reads this...
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
https://www.ashes101.com/welcome
Who knows, people may actually research the subject matter before posting and there will be less factual inaccuracies to rub people up the wrong way. I've gone through that learning curve (sorry community for posting dumb stuff!), hopefully others will too.
As stated before, the $375 is a one time purchase after which you can buy individually. Also, that $375 gives mostly game time and coin. The cosmetics are more of a bonus than the reason for the pack.
Daily logins has to do with in game activities and playing the game and how they make you feel like you have to do something related to gameplay.
Cosmetics has to do with you not being able to control your spending habits due to fomo... they are two very different things.
Edit: Gameplay vs spending money does not have the same implications.
I've heard the concern about not being able to get an exact item (as mentioned, you'll be able to get the same item, but with a different color/texture from other sources in-game) once the month has passed, and can't personally share the concern. A player would need to spend thousands of dollars pre-launch to collect EVERYTHING that cash can buy for the game.
It's probably best not to worry about missing out on a specific color/texture of a specific item/building/ship/pet/etc, this far before the game has even launched.
The bolded part is the only part you need to read in this wall of text.
If those log in bonuses were cosmetic only, I agree.
If either the daily log in or cash shop items were offering an advantage to players, we would then have an issue. Yeah, and then after that you dont need to spend that much again.
What do you think about that? Do I deserve a price reduction just because I think it’s too expensive?
"They don't want to sell these piecemeal, they want people who pre-purchase to have a purely unique and amazing set of cosmetics that aren't watered down by people being able to purchase the bits and pieces they want for less money."
That's exactly the way to look at it! If you buy a whole pack cosmetic set and then that set goes off the market your product has more value because it's more rare just by their game store mechanic.
It's a great way to address the need for revenue from a game by making cosmetics and style a worthwhile product.
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