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Class balance for roles
Saedu
Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
So I'm a bit new here as I found out about AoC a few days ago when a friend linked a video from The Lazy Peon. The node system has me very excited about this game. I'm wondering however if the current setup for Class/Roles is going to work.
Here's some of my questions/concerns:
(1) If someone likes to tank, DPS, and heal, what is the viability of doing this? Am I creating three different characters, one for each role? It doesn't sound like there is any option to switch between specs. What I'm not sure on is how hybrid individual classes are going to be.
(2) Will there be multiple options for tanks from different classes? Or do you have to be the Tank class to be the best in this area? (and would you have to be Tank/Tank for top in tanking, or would Tank/something else still be viable). How good would a Mage/Tank be in tanking high end content vs a Tank/Tank class? (apply all these same questions about tanks to healers as well).
(3) If someone opts to be primarily a tank/healer, what does their solo questing experience look like? I assume its going to be slower/safer, but more boring (For healers). Tanks might be okay since they can probably pull bigger packs and just take longer to kill them all down. However being able to switch from a healing role to a DPS role for solo content is typically a better approach.
(4) What's the role of a tank in PvP? Will they have utility abilities to help protect/augment their teammates? Will they have more CC to disrupt the enemy? (hopefully not). This is always more difficult to figure out than in PvE because you don't have threat in PvP.
In my experience from WoW it seems like there is often a shortage of tanks/heals. If you limit the flexibility for players to switch between roles on a single toon, then this shortage will become even worse. WoW had some awesome innovation when they brought out duel spec. The game got even better when they released the ability to be able to switch between all 2-4 specs of your class in the Legion expansion.
This isn't about catering to casuals. It's actually the opposite. This is opening the door for the MANY players who want to be able to develop high-end skills across multiple specs to flex to the role the group needs (and be able to perform at the top end level needed).
WoW had it wrong early on when hybrid classes could do more than one role, but they were typically sub-par at the roles they could do. They really got it right though when they made it so a hybrid class could competitively fulfill a tank, heal, or DPS role.
I see AoC having a lot of potential with the idea that you spec into two classes. I worry a little bit about the execution of the idea. Specifically, I'd recommend having the Sub-class you spec into: (1) be more fluid/easy to change so you can change your setup depending on the current content you are doing and (2) introduce additional spells, not just modifications. If any class switching to x/Tank could be a viable tank, or any class switching to x/Cleric could be a viable healer, then this would be awesome flexibility and dramatically increase the replayability for a single character (vs having to make multiple alts).
FYI, I'm not against alts, I play 4 level 60s at the moment in WoW (Monk, Priest, Paly, and Druid) and I had every class maxed out last expansion. 2 of my level 60s are also within ~2 points of max gear (Monk and Priest). This is more about solving for the fatal flaw of a MMO that you are so invested in a single character that it limits your gameplay options. I love to heal, DPS, and tank... I'd like to make this more viable for others. I see too many players out there that go YEARS without ever healing or tanking. The biggest barrier is typically the need to level up multiple classes and/or the limited gameplay options for classes (e.g. I have a friend who only wants to play Warlock and is really good at it, but never gets the chance to try healing or tanking as a result of it).
Here's some of my questions/concerns:
(1) If someone likes to tank, DPS, and heal, what is the viability of doing this? Am I creating three different characters, one for each role? It doesn't sound like there is any option to switch between specs. What I'm not sure on is how hybrid individual classes are going to be.
(2) Will there be multiple options for tanks from different classes? Or do you have to be the Tank class to be the best in this area? (and would you have to be Tank/Tank for top in tanking, or would Tank/something else still be viable). How good would a Mage/Tank be in tanking high end content vs a Tank/Tank class? (apply all these same questions about tanks to healers as well).
(3) If someone opts to be primarily a tank/healer, what does their solo questing experience look like? I assume its going to be slower/safer, but more boring (For healers). Tanks might be okay since they can probably pull bigger packs and just take longer to kill them all down. However being able to switch from a healing role to a DPS role for solo content is typically a better approach.
(4) What's the role of a tank in PvP? Will they have utility abilities to help protect/augment their teammates? Will they have more CC to disrupt the enemy? (hopefully not). This is always more difficult to figure out than in PvE because you don't have threat in PvP.
In my experience from WoW it seems like there is often a shortage of tanks/heals. If you limit the flexibility for players to switch between roles on a single toon, then this shortage will become even worse. WoW had some awesome innovation when they brought out duel spec. The game got even better when they released the ability to be able to switch between all 2-4 specs of your class in the Legion expansion.
This isn't about catering to casuals. It's actually the opposite. This is opening the door for the MANY players who want to be able to develop high-end skills across multiple specs to flex to the role the group needs (and be able to perform at the top end level needed).
WoW had it wrong early on when hybrid classes could do more than one role, but they were typically sub-par at the roles they could do. They really got it right though when they made it so a hybrid class could competitively fulfill a tank, heal, or DPS role.
I see AoC having a lot of potential with the idea that you spec into two classes. I worry a little bit about the execution of the idea. Specifically, I'd recommend having the Sub-class you spec into: (1) be more fluid/easy to change so you can change your setup depending on the current content you are doing and (2) introduce additional spells, not just modifications. If any class switching to x/Tank could be a viable tank, or any class switching to x/Cleric could be a viable healer, then this would be awesome flexibility and dramatically increase the replayability for a single character (vs having to make multiple alts).
FYI, I'm not against alts, I play 4 level 60s at the moment in WoW (Monk, Priest, Paly, and Druid) and I had every class maxed out last expansion. 2 of my level 60s are also within ~2 points of max gear (Monk and Priest). This is more about solving for the fatal flaw of a MMO that you are so invested in a single character that it limits your gameplay options. I love to heal, DPS, and tank... I'd like to make this more viable for others. I see too many players out there that go YEARS without ever healing or tanking. The biggest barrier is typically the need to level up multiple classes and/or the limited gameplay options for classes (e.g. I have a friend who only wants to play Warlock and is really good at it, but never gets the chance to try healing or tanking as a result of it).
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Comments
Currently information is limited as we don't have a ton of information as to how much the classes will blur the lines when you pick your second spec and the various augments.
Switching specs will be hard and not on demand like a lot of games out there.
They are going for an older game feel where community is more important then convenience. There will be no group finders limited faster travel and so forth. Solo play while not ruled out will be limited as it is an MMO after all and not a solo player game like WOW.
The differences in archetypes I think should be huge as every one fills a role. With group size being 8 and everyone having different strengths(each archetype has an out of combat ability) should be plenty of reason to talk everyone.
A lot more info here and at ashes101.com
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Classes