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Skillpoints

KusaijshiKusaijshi Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
I am not sure if this got awsnered before but i think every Charakter should be able to Save 2 different skillpoint sets whitch he can choose to play with a Cooldown from an 1-2 hours to reload the other skillset again.

why?

AoC will future PVE and PVP so it would be nice that players can use a PVE and a PVP skilltree to choose from.
this way you dont kick 50% of the players from doing PVP or PVE.
its a smaller Problem for Damage dealer. they will make less dmg in PVE then because they maybe skilled some evasion skills instead of damage but im talking for the PVE tanks/Healer here.
If you are a PVE player who does dungeons every evening and raids whenever CD is ready you dont have the time to make a Skillpoint resett quest everytime you want to make PVP.

you onyl get this 2 skillpages to choose from so if you want to take a different PVE or PVP skilltree you still need to make the quest ( or whatever) to resett your skillpoints and place them new.

Its a Personal problem too.
i REALY like PVE and PVP. and i would like to play a Tank class because i always play melee classes in every MMO. Most time i played assasins who i will Play in ashes too If i only will have 1 skilltreepage to choose from.
as Assasin i can run my PVP skilltree and still do a good job in PVE.
As a Tank i cant Play my PVP skilltree because then i will die by bosses or wont be able to Hold Aggro.

Same Problem does every Healer has i guess?
in PVP you need more stun/dodge Effekts then in raids where you max your Healpower.


im fine with only 1 skilltree but that will change my Main class and many other players will change that too or drop PVP/PVE mostly then what would be sad. i Like that AoC wants to be harder than most Casual Games today but since you can choose from 8 subclasses + Skilltree it would be nice to have 2 skillsets to choose from with cooldowns for
PVP over the day for fun
PVE evening
PVP avter raid in night.

i would realy hate to make the respecc quest every day 2 times ^^

Comments

  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    There is no difference between PvE and PvP skills in AOC. There has been mention of finding a away to respec but nothing concrete from them yet. Mention of a quest line or something of the sort.

    Personally I hope it is longer then an hour or two. Closer to a week to make choices really matter.
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Skills
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • VmanGmanVmanGman Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    In AoC you will always be doing both PvP and PvE. You won’t need two different builds because you will always need to be ready for both. PvP players will need to do PvE to gear up and PvE players will not be able to avoid PvP.

    This isn’t WoW 2.0
  • KusaijshiKusaijshi Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    yea thats what i meant.
    If you are a the Main Raid Tank your skills are all speced with
    + aggro
    + defense
    This is completly useless in Group PVP ( yes more defense for the fulltank is useless since he just gets ignored then because his dmg output is to low)

    Thats why it would be good to have 2 skillpages so you can Make both PVP and PVE.
    and you dont need to be Ready for Both.

    Im im a PVP player and got all the PVE gear i need i can run my PVP spec and fight everywhere.
    but if im the main tank in PVE im ready for PVP but useless and wont be able to make Arenas.
    if you are a PVP liking Player you wont be able to do PVE as a Tank class because your damage is lower that mages/assasins etc and you cant hold aggro. so you get just ignored.

    But if you are a PVE player and spec in PVE you dont need to make PVP. yea you get attacked in open world? ok hit him back 1-2 times to get purple coloured die get the small malus and keep playing your game. you will not be ganked 24/7 in AoC.
    And you can just stay most time in dungeons with your group where you arent gankable.

    I dont want WOW. wow sucks. i just want that PVP tank players are able to make Dungeons too as a Tank and not a wannabe offtank/DD who will be ignored most times because he is doing his job worse than others.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    There is also no difference in PvP ans PvE gear. It is all just gear.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • VmanGmanVmanGman Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    There aren’t dungeons where you can hide and not be gankable. Dungeons will be mostly open world and you will always need to be ready for PvP while you PvE which is why you won’t need to have two different specs.

    Like I said, you cannot separate PvP and PvE in this game which means that you’ll need a spec that works for both. This is a PvX game.
  • TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack
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  • KusaijshiKusaijshi Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Sure there are Dungeons VMAN.
    Look up all the videos. The dungeon starts with Open world elite mob and further into the area a Dungeon will apear for 8 people.
    Raids are Seperated too in Instances where only 40 people Can enter ....
    Arenas are Seperated too.....

    And gear has nothing to do with what i said.
    You can chance your gear Depending on what you wanna do.
    Tank class joining PVP? Equipp the Damage gear
    entering Dungeons/Raids Equipp the HP/Block Gear .....

    Skillpoints cant be relocate what is totaly fine. but will sukc for the tanks.
    If i only can choose 1 skilltree i will Play Damage dealer because i can run my PVP skilltree 24/7 without doing this relocate quests.
  • VmanGmanVmanGman Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    80% of dungeons are open world.
  • DaeraxDaerax Member
    edited March 2021
    Is there any confirmation on skill points reset being done with quest? If there is, I would appreciate a link. I found only info about quest for secondary archetype change, which makes sense in my opinion. I really hope they will go with easy (moderate amount of gold/consumable item) skill reset whenever you are in a node, but no option to change it outside. I don't necessarily mean full reset, which could be bound to secondary archetype change or something, there is definitely some value to meaningful choices with skillpoint and playing your character and not 4 completely different builds depending on the situation. But few points here and there would be nice. I am not that concerned with PvE since as stated above, most of it is gonna happen in open world anyway and you will need some well rounded build for it. On the other hand, I would like to be able to tweak my character easily for pvp specifically when I will go to arena or there will be siege coming. For multiple skill sets, it would be nice to have an option to save some templates you use regularly, but I think about it more like QoL thing, when you do your reset in town (time save and protection from misclicking mostly), don't mean you should have the ability to change it on a fly.
  • ThulfThulf Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited March 2021
    I wish they kept it simple, forced one to make meaningful decisions. It would create for some well perceived variety between roles, opens up low-key strategic thinkering while a fight is unfolding, and so on.

    Though I'd imagine there are those hardcore players who'd prefer to swap from magician to a guardian with a press of a shortcut series of buttons mid-fight along with another 3 keyboards worth of shortcuts going from shift+1 to ctrl+shift+alt+1 deep in order to challenge their muscle memory...
  • RamirezRamirez Member
    edited March 2021
    Kusaijshi wrote: »
    yea thats what i meant.
    If you are a the Main Raid Tank your skills are all speced with
    + aggro
    + defense
    This is completly useless in Group PVP ( yes more defense for the fulltank is useless since he just gets ignored then because his dmg output is to low)

    You have played more games besides wow? Maybe try Albion online and check what a Fulltank can do in pvp, and how can you use aggro to use Mobs on your favor against players, tank just need another ability to clean aggro in battle and the ganker or whatever is done....

    In nodes or clan wars fulltank will have the main role in front line doing engage, CCing the max players and leave the fight alive to regroup and do the same
  • DaeraxDaerax Member
    edited March 2021
    Ramirez wrote: »
    Kusaijshi wrote: »
    yea thats what i meant.
    If you are a the Main Raid Tank your skills are all speced with
    + aggro
    + defense
    This is completly useless in Group PVP ( yes more defense for the fulltank is useless since he just gets ignored then because his dmg output is to low)

    You have played more games besides wow? Maybe try Albion online and check what a Fulltank can do in pvp, and how can you use aggro to use Mobs on your favor against players, tank just need another ability to clean aggro in battle and the ganker or whatever is done....

    In nodes or clan wars fulltank will have the main role in front line doing engage, CCing the max players and leave the fight alive to regroup and do the same

    Completely agree, that tank can be pain to deal with in group pvp while using same tools he would use to control pve encounters. Aggro is possibly better point, but I really believe AoC team won't flood tank's toolkit with abilities only affecting aggro. If aggro is either just incorporated in skills with other useful effects, or has some effect on players (not likely I think, only forcing target comes to mind, which would be clunky at best), this shouldn't really be a huge problem.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    This is an older from PaX in 2017 but it shows the wall ability and tank PvP as they intend it.
    The "wall" I think will end up in game allowing the Tank to control the battle field though manipulation of the field vs taunts. Collision being a thing here and forcing people to move around stuff.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Jt7kRU5dM
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • GboltGbolt Member
    I think some people are so used to having PvE and PvP almost as separate games, as they think all games must be like that:)
    Thing is, AoC is taking different approach here than most MMOs. There should be no PvE or PvP spec. There is one spec, because there is no separate PvE and PvP. Its PvX game where every aspect of a game is naturally mixed together instead of being artificially separated.
  • Gbolt wrote: »
    I think some people are so used to having PvE and PvP almost as separate games, as they think all games must be like that:)
    Thing is, AoC is taking different approach here than most MMOs. There should be no PvE or PvP spec. There is one spec, because there is no separate PvE and PvP. Its PvX game where every aspect of a game is naturally mixed together instead of being artificially separated.

    While I do agree there you will always have to think of PvP because it's so prevalent in AoC. There are differences in the way that if you were more into PvE then you might go for slower casts and more damage, along side you could use more area skills. This won't be any use in PvP because you won't get that time to cast and people certainly wont be staying in your area spells for long.
    I think having just 1 spec would be great and there would always be a risk vs reward for the direction you decide to lean towards.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    No to dual spec.

    Not for ashes.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • No need for dual spec. But i believe there should be a place to test out skills and re-spec (training ground or/and class master) or simple throught the Skill tab with a cost.
    6wtxguK.jpg
    Aren't we all sinners?
  • CriminalCupcakeCriminalCupcake Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    No to dual spec.

    Not for ashes.

    Not for Ashes....
    Feels like I've done this before.
  • I'd like to add that having NO dual specs also helps "breaking the meta" - Instead of having an (found on google) optimized PvE spec and an optimized PvP spec, you're now forced to make decisions and choices to come up with a spec that best suits YOUR needs

    (And this also would probably save you from being flamed or kicked when your party members find out you're not using the "meta" spec, when there's no "meta")
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I'd like to add that having NO dual specs also helps "breaking the meta" - Instead of having an (found on google) optimized PvE spec and an optimized PvP spec, you're now forced to make decisions and choices to come up with a spec that best suits YOUR needs

    (And this also would probably save you from being flamed or kicked when your party members find out you're not using the "meta" spec, when there's no "meta")

    I do like this point.

    It works well in Dungeons and Dragons online. That game is about as crazy as Path of Exlie with build possibilities yet I have never seen anyone get kicked from a group for their spec. At worst people will determine that someone's character just does not pulling enough of their own weight after playing with them for a while and ask them to get better gear or consider different options. It normally leads to positive social interactions where vets teach people with bad builds what they could do to be more useful. That game also has no widespread DPS meter adoption. You just have to kind of feel people out. Which I think is the idea Ashes is going for by not allowing DPS meters.

    Part of the reason people can be so toxic in MMOs when it comes to builds is that you can just go to a website where all of the numbers have been crunched and there is a definitive best build and way to play it. I have noticed that games without that are much more accepting of experimentation. "A 2-handed bard? You can still buff and heal? Alright lets see what you can do." is a more likely response to something no one has seen when the numbers have not be crunched to the point that there is only one way to build a character per class.

    End game guilds might be more strict when it comes to what they allow their members to play, but over all pug toxicity goes down. This is at least what I a have experienced.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
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