I actually thought it was a given that every ability was to be able to be augmented by every augment (in the first scenario I originally described), and that augments were flavour-based not mechanical-based in nature.
I think this is probably an unsafe assumption.
You pick your primary class, and pick your abilities from there.
You then pick your secondary class, and each of these gives you three sets of augments to work with.
Each ability you picked from your primary class will have one specific augment for it from each tree of the secondary class you picked.
If you have two heals as a cleric, a single target and an AoE, you cant pick and chose which spell gets which augment. Each heal has specific augmenta for you to pick from - one each from each tree of your secondary class.
So a Cultist will only be able to modify 2 abilities because Cleric has only Life and Death? But a Nightspell will be able to modify 4 abilities because Teleport, Fire, Frost, Lightning?
I highly, highly doubt that's the case.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Augments#Class_augments There's going to be a certain threshold at which you can no longer augment your active abilities based on the decisions you've augmented previous abilities, so you'll have to pick and choose which ones you want to apply the augments towards; and certain augments will have more expense required on the skill point side - Steven
This implies that you can modify more than one ability with any augment at a time
You can't have every ability you own be augmented at the same time, but each of those abilities is augmentable by any augment is what I meant when I said what I said previously.
This implies that you can modify more than one ability with any augment at a time.
No, it implies that there will be a points system for augments.
As to cleric augment paths - just because we only know of two, doesn't mean there will only be two.
A point system means you can put points into multiple abilities yes.
A point system does not mean you slot life into this ability and death into this ability and that's it.
You're right about the cleric thing though yes.
I've totally lost track of what your argument even is.
You said you thought it was a given that every ability would be able to be augmented by every augment. There is no reason to think this.
Let's say I'm a ranger.
I have two abilities, hail of arrows, and fleeting shot.
Fleeting shot is a retreat, along with firing a single arrow, hail of arrows is a telegraphed AoE.
Now let's say I pick up mage as my secondary.
I have access to fire and ice augments for my abilities, and a third line that I'm just ignoring for ease of explanation.
Now, the augment from the fire line for Fleeti g Shot could well be that I leave a trail of burning ground as I retreat to hinder anyone following me. The ice augment may be that rather than rolling back, I blink instantly leaving a patch of ice where I was standing.
For hail of arrows, my fire ability may be that the arrows deal flam damage, and my ice ability may be that they have a chance to freeze targets that they hit.
Now, I cant just take the augment from Fleeting shot and apply it to hail of arrows, nor can I do the reverse. Each ability has the augments that we can pick from.
However, each ability also has three ranks, which are not augments but more akin to a talent system.
I can opt to upgrade my fleeting shot, which would then increase the distance I retreat to. I can upgrade it a second time and then it also breaks any CC I happen to have on me.
With hail of arrows, my first upgrade adds a movement slow, and my second adds a DoT component..
However, once these abilities are upgraded, I can still augment them. I can have fleeting shot at rank three, so I retreat further and it breaks CC on me, but also augment it with ice so that rather than rolling g back, I blink back instantly.
However, the higher rank an ability is, the more "augment points" it costs to augment.
If I have three talents and 3 augment points, I could opt to have the above version of fleeting shot, but that would leave me with no talents at all to even allow me to use hail of arrows.
Or I could use two talents to get hail of arrows up to rank 2, use one talent to get fleeting shot, and then spend three augment points to upgrade each of them.
All of that said, the point I am making is that you can not just take the augment from one ability and apply it to another ability, as you suggested would be the case. Each ability will have it's own augments for you to pick from, following the trees given from your secondary class.
I said in my edit above that I edited too late so I'll redo here
You are getting augment and augment groups mixed up.
Each skill will have an available augment from each of the available augment groups that your secondary class makes available to you.
I am assuming you are looking at these loose groups of augments as being the actual augment - they are not. The augment is a specific thing from each group that can be applied to a specific ability - the augments are not these groups themselves.
Your examples above also completely ignore then known fact that abilities have ranks, and the higher the cost to augment an ability is tied specifically to its rank.
I said in my edit above that I edited too late so I'll redo here
You are getting augment and augment groups mixed up.
Each skill will have an available augment from each of the available augment groups that your secondary class makes available to you.
I am assuming you are looking at these loose groups of augments as being the actual augment - they are not. The augment is a specific thing from each group that can be applied to a specific ability - the augments are not these groups themselves.
Your examples above also completely ignore then known fact that abilities have ranks, and the higher the cost to augment an ability is tied specifically to its rank.
Where is this ever stated?
I'm pretty sure it's been pretty clear that Light will do something different based on the ability, not that there's a selection of Light augments you can choose from to apply to different abilities
IE: As Steven has described it, you apply teleport to charge to make it blink-charge
Not that you apply the teleport "blink" augment to charge to make it blink-charge
Edit: If what you are saying is true, then you might as well double or triple or even quadruple my original calculations because that's so many more customizable options.
I said in my edit above that I edited too late so I'll redo here
You are getting augment and augment groups mixed up.
Each skill will have an available augment from each of the available augment groups that your secondary class makes available to you.
I am assuming you are looking at these loose groups of augments as being the actual augment - they are not. The augment is a specific thing from each group that can be applied to a specific ability - the augments are not these groups themselves.
Your examples above also completely ignore then known fact that abilities have ranks, and the higher the cost to augment an ability is tied specifically to its rank.
Where is this ever stated?
I'm not a fan of picking words apart too much that Steven has said, as much of the time he is simplifying things to make it easier to understand.
However, the augment paths are often referred to as schools
Rather than adding a teleport augment to an ability, he talks about augmenting from the teleport school.
It was also described many years ago as each ability having an augment slot, as equipment does in any number of games, and players being able to fill that augment slot with augments from a number of different parts of the game.
If you look at the different ways we are able to get augments, presenting each augment as it's own unique thing that can be applied to a specific ability is really the only way they can be efficiently be presented to players.
I said in my edit above that I edited too late so I'll redo here
You are getting augment and augment groups mixed up.
Each skill will have an available augment from each of the available augment groups that your secondary class makes available to you.
I am assuming you are looking at these loose groups of augments as being the actual augment - they are not. The augment is a specific thing from each group that can be applied to a specific ability - the augments are not these groups themselves.
Your examples above also completely ignore then known fact that abilities have ranks, and the higher the cost to augment an ability is tied specifically to its rank.
Where is this ever stated?
I'm not a fan of picking words apart too much that Steven has said, as much of the time he is simplifying things to make it easier to understand.
However, the augment paths are often referred to as schools
Rather than adding a teleport augment to an ability, he talks about augmenting from the teleport school.
It was also described many years ago as each ability having an augment slot, as equipment does in any number of games, and players being able to fill that augment slot with augments from a number of different parts of the game.
If you look at the different ways we are able to get augments, presenting each augment as it's own unique thing that can be applied to a specific ability is really the only way they can be efficiently be presented to players.
Yes, them being referred to as schools has no bearing on this. It makes no difference because you're just applying the "school" to the ability.
Where does he ever mention augmenting from some deeper level of the teleport school?
And yes, once again you're describing exactly what I'm talking about when you mention the augment slot.
Whether it's point buy or static cost purchase of applying an augmentation makes no difference on this. My argument is simply that supposing the completely customizable abilities scenario: each and every skill will have a single different effect from each augmentation. Dagger Throw can be augmented by Light or Dark or Teleport or any other augment in a single way, each one having it's own single specific effect on the Dagger Throw skill.
And yes, you're just repeating what I've been saying back to me in your last line.
Every ability can have one augment applied to it at a time, but all augments are available to each skill. (Assuming the "complete customization" scenario described in the OP)
Anything else would add impossible amounts of variance on top of the already indescribable amount.
each and every skill will have a single different effect from each augmentation
Since you are obviously not grasping what I am saying *at all*, I'll just point out where you are blatantly wrong, and see where you go from there.
It is known that quests and such from racial content, social organizations and religions will offer augments for a single ability.
No schools, no groups, just one augment that can be applied to one single, specific ability.
Where is this stated? I've looked at as many sources as I could find about this because I've tried to figure out what I should be looking forward to regarding augments and I haven't seen anything stating this.
I still don't know where you're getting this school/group dynamic from either. As far as everything I've read and heard, everything is just a "school" that you apply to an ability. You apply Light to Dagger Throw, not the "self-heal" augment from the Light "tree" to Dagger Throw
And idk, I think I'm understanding what you're saying pretty clearly
It's really easy to spot someone that just reads the wiki, rather than going to the primary source.
As an example of how wrong the wiki can be sometimes, look at the page on corruption. Go to the alpha-1 section, all it says is that the corruption system will be tested in alpha-1. Then if you look, there is a source for that information - if you go to that source, it is literally an interview where Steven specifically says corruption will not be tested in alpha-1, but may be in phase 2.
So, the wiki says it will, then links directly to Steven saying it wont.
But hey, that's fine, you can just read the wiki and assume you're right.
It's really easy to spot someone that just reads the wiki, rather than going to the primary source.
As an example of how wrong the wiki can be sometimes, look at the page on corruption. Go to the alpha-1 section, all it says is that the corruption system will be tested in alpha-1. Then if you look, there is a source for that information - if you go to that source, it is literally an interview where Steven specifically says corruption will not be tested in alpha-1, but may be in phase 2.
So, the wiki says it will, then links directly to Steven saying it wont.
But hey, that's fine, you can just read the wiki and assume you're right.
Bro, come on.
I ASKED you where you've seen this, asked you to show me your source.
You're only rebuttal is that one my sources is wrong.
If you're right I don't care, I just want to know it's actually true.
You're also assuming I get all of my information solely from the wiki.
It's really easy to spot someone that just reads the wiki, rather than going to the primary source.
As an example of how wrong the wiki can be sometimes, look at the page on corruption. Go to the alpha-1 section, all it says is that the corruption system will be tested in alpha-1. Then if you look, there is a source for that information - if you go to that source, it is literally an interview where Steven specifically says corruption will not be tested in alpha-1, but may be in phase 2.
So, the wiki says it will, then links directly to Steven saying it wont.
But hey, that's fine, you can just read the wiki and assume you're right.
Bro, come on.
I ASKED you where you've seen this, asked you to show me your source.
No, you kept arguing your point.
If you wanted to know where I got the information from, you would have ceased arguing your point.
You didnt do that.
You were more interested in "being right" than in understanding.
Literally all 3 of my previous replies to you have asked you to state your sources.
You're more interested in believing I'm just some nerd who wants to be right than making your point.
This discussion has devolved completely because you're not understanding anything of what I'm saying and refusing to try to
Edit: I don't want to have some dumb ad hominem argument with you. I'm trying real hard to help you understand what is known about the augment system and trying to get you to prove to me that I'm wrong so that I can update my knowledge to be right.
So, the wiki says it will, then links directly to Steven saying it wont.
Not to mention this doesn't matter, because like I've already stated in the comment you replied to, the sources linked on the augment page have Steven saying exactly what is stated on the Wiki about augments.
I read the wiki and look at sources, miss me with that shit.
Literally all 3 of my previous replies to you have asked you to state your sources.
It's interesting how, three times in a row, you cut out the bit where you carried on your argument, proving that you didnt really want to know.
But hey, as I said - it's all good, you're right!
Oh wow, ok.
As if that detracts anything from wanting your source.
It's blatantly obvious you're projecting here lol.
Edit: In case it wasn't obvious, I only cropped the part that was relevant because it was what was relevant.
Anyone else reading through this who believes the same as @Noaani can you please link me where I can find out about the augment system he's referring to?
Would you prefer I don't clump all of what I want to say into one post then like this as I do to keep things organized and to not spam threads?
I could ask for a source in one comment and then continue the discussion in another immediate commant if you'd prefer.
So can you please provide a source?
Edit: Sorry everyone and mostly mods I don't like to spam like this normally, and try to keep all multiple arguments I'm making to the same comment instead of double posting, but @Noaani apparently can't handle that.
Because apparently you can't comprehend multiple different lines of thought in a single comment and you need each comment to only discuss one thing...
Here.
Edit: Sorry everyone and mostly mods I don't like to spam like this normally, and try to keep all multiple arguments I'm making to the same comment instead of double posting, but @Noaani apparently can't handle that. If you feel you have to close the thread, I'll be sad because this topic matters to me, but it really has devolved into this now and I'll understand.
Sorry everyone and mostly mods I don't like to spam like this normally, and try to keep all multiple arguments I'm making to the same comment instead of double posting, but Noaani apparently can't handle that. If you feel you have to close the thread, I'll be sad because this topic matters to me, but it really has devolved into this now and I'll understand.
Why would they close the thread? It is a perfectly civil discussion.
Yea ok, guess I was right and you couldn't find your source. Thanks for clearing that up.
Edit: That being, if the first scenario I described in the OP (the complete customization one) is true, then all base abilities will have an augmented version for ever augment that exists.
And that this augment will be different for every ability.
Why would they close the thread? It is a perfectly civil discussion.
Is it though? You're constantly ignoring my entire comment to tell me I'm wrong and using extreme bad faith, leading to me repeating the same thing many times to reiterate it. With the risk of getting slightly political it's like arguing with someone who's head is filled with Fox News propoganda, using the exact same shitty debate tactics of "ignore and use every fallacy in the book".
Honestly I'd believe you if you said you were just doing some top tier trolling.
Didn't bother reading the whole thread so not sure if this has been brought up but keep in mind that there will be a limit to the number of active skills people can have on their action bars and realistically with resources like mana, you will have some preferred rotation (based on meta, or personal preference or w.e). Therefore people will only really interact with the augments for the skills they find interesting and useful enough to utilize within their rotation to begin with. So realistically you will only interact with a fraction of all possibilities and I think that's a good thing.
That being said, I've thought (and had my fair share of forum arguments) that I hate how they call the primary/secondary archetype combo "classes" and how most of the augments seem to add flavor to skills instead of major revamps which does not really justify vastly different names like beast master vs necromancer as already mentioned here in an earlier comment. So I very much share the concerns that these "classes" will not feel as different as they really should and are made to sound.
Didn't bother reading the whole thread so not sure if this has been brought up but keep in mind that there will be a limit to the number of active skills people can have on their action bars and realistically with resources like mana, you will have some preferred rotation (based on meta, or personal preference or w.e). Therefore people will only really interact with the augments for the skills they find interesting and useful enough to utilize within their rotation to begin with. So realistically you will only interact with a fraction of all possibilities and I think that's a good thing.
That being said, I've thought (and had my fair share of forum arguments) that I hate how they call the primary/secondary archetype combo "classes" and how most of the augments seem to add flavor to skills instead of major revamps which does not really justify vastly different names like beast master vs necromancer as already mentioned here in an earlier comment. So I very much share the concerns that these "classes" will not feel as different as they really should and are made to sound.
That's very true, but even if you can only have 5 skills on your bar, every skill you may put on your bar has to have the augment options available to it for the players who will use it, so they have to develop for all those contingencies.
I personally would hope for a full customization system where each one has a little meaningful change behind it, but that's an unrealistic expectation. It's more likely that if they go this route it will be very minor changes.
I would be disappointed if only some skills could utilize certain augments (even if it completely changed the spell)
Yeah I mean personally I'd prefer if they stuck to more traditional "you spec into a specialization" that can augment the appropriate skills of the primary archetype in the appropriate ways to for example truly distinguish between a beast master and necromancer (and not just a pet skin) but I've shared those thoughts aggressively before already hahaha. (If you really care or have nothing else to read: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/47155/secondary-archetypes-vs-arbitrary-specializations)
Yeah I mean personally I'd prefer if they stuck to more traditional "you spec into a specialization" that can augment the appropriate skills of the primary archetype in the appropriate ways to for example truly distinguish between a beast master and necromancer (and not just a pet skin) but I've shared those thoughts aggressively before already hahaha. (If you really care or have nothing else to read: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/47155/secondary-archetypes-vs-arbitrary-specializations)
Hmm, I understand your idea and while it has validity, I personally prefer having the ultimate customizability that theoretically will take place with the systems they've described to us.
I like the idea that my Oracle could be not at all the same as another Oracle because they used mostly Fire and Teleport augments on abilities that I don't use while I use Ice and Lightning augments on abilities they don't, and each of us has built essentially a completely custom character that plays unique to our playstyle.
Edit: Of course if they are only minor differences that does make the customization negligible to say the least.
Hmm, I understand your idea and while it has validity, I personally prefer having the ultimate customizability that theoretically will take place with the systems they've described to us.
I like the idea that my Oracle could be not at all the same as another Oracle because they used mostly Fire and Teleport augments on abilities that I don't use while I use Ice and Lightning augments on abilities they don't, and each of us has built essentially a completely custom character that plays unique to our playstyle.
Edit: Of course if they are only minor differences that does make the customization negligible to say the least.
Totally get that, I just think there are multiple solutions to distinguishing one character from another who are playing the same "class". I still think that class identity will suffer from this framework but we shall see, this is what alpha and beta is for :P.
That's very true, but even if you can only have 5 skills on your bar, every skill you may put on your bar has to have the augment options available to it for the players who will use it, so they have to develop for all those contingencies.
You almost gave me a heart attack. I was like only 5 skills!!! What is this a moba?!
Wiki confirms fewer than 30 skills on the action bar. (Which is a dumb limitation, but I guess that is what they want to do.)
That's very true, but even if you can only have 5 skills on your bar, every skill you may put on your bar has to have the augment options available to it for the players who will use it, so they have to develop for all those contingencies.
You almost gave me a heart attack. I was like only 5 skills!!! What is this a moba?!
Wiki confirms fewer than 30 skills on the action bar. (Which is a dumb limitation, but I guess that is what they want to do.)
Haha, yea that'd be a little ridiculous
They definitely have some kind of numSkills limit because of the 25%/75% rule, but who knows if they'll even keep that
Totally get that, I just think there are multiple solutions to distinguishing one character from another who are playing the same "class". I still think that class identity will suffer from this framework but we shall see, this is what alpha and beta is for :P.
For sure, sometimes going an extreme can be as detrimental as going the opposite extreme. We can only wait and see and believe IS knows what they're doing lol
Comments
So a Cultist will only be able to modify 2 abilities because Cleric has only Life and Death? But a Nightspell will be able to modify 4 abilities because Teleport, Fire, Frost, Lightning?
I highly, highly doubt that's the case.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Augments#Class_augments
There's going to be a certain threshold at which you can no longer augment your active abilities based on the decisions you've augmented previous abilities, so you'll have to pick and choose which ones you want to apply the augments towards; and certain augments will have more expense required on the skill point side - Steven
This implies that you can modify more than one ability with any augment at a time
You can't have every ability you own be augmented at the same time, but each of those abilities is augmentable by any augment is what I meant when I said what I said previously.
No, it implies that there will be a points system for augments.
As to cleric augment paths - just because we only know of two, doesn't mean there will only be two.
A point system means you can put points into multiple abilities yes.
A point system does not mean you slot life into this ability and death into this ability and that's it.
You're right about the cleric thing though yes.
Edit: What that looks like is this
You have 50 augment points
I've totally lost track of what your argument even is.
You said you thought it was a given that every ability would be able to be augmented by every augment. There is no reason to think this.
Let's say I'm a ranger.
I have two abilities, hail of arrows, and fleeting shot.
Fleeting shot is a retreat, along with firing a single arrow, hail of arrows is a telegraphed AoE.
Now let's say I pick up mage as my secondary.
I have access to fire and ice augments for my abilities, and a third line that I'm just ignoring for ease of explanation.
Now, the augment from the fire line for Fleeti g Shot could well be that I leave a trail of burning ground as I retreat to hinder anyone following me. The ice augment may be that rather than rolling back, I blink instantly leaving a patch of ice where I was standing.
For hail of arrows, my fire ability may be that the arrows deal flam damage, and my ice ability may be that they have a chance to freeze targets that they hit.
Now, I cant just take the augment from Fleeting shot and apply it to hail of arrows, nor can I do the reverse. Each ability has the augments that we can pick from.
However, each ability also has three ranks, which are not augments but more akin to a talent system.
I can opt to upgrade my fleeting shot, which would then increase the distance I retreat to. I can upgrade it a second time and then it also breaks any CC I happen to have on me.
With hail of arrows, my first upgrade adds a movement slow, and my second adds a DoT component..
However, once these abilities are upgraded, I can still augment them. I can have fleeting shot at rank three, so I retreat further and it breaks CC on me, but also augment it with ice so that rather than rolling g back, I blink back instantly.
However, the higher rank an ability is, the more "augment points" it costs to augment.
If I have three talents and 3 augment points, I could opt to have the above version of fleeting shot, but that would leave me with no talents at all to even allow me to use hail of arrows.
Or I could use two talents to get hail of arrows up to rank 2, use one talent to get fleeting shot, and then spend three augment points to upgrade each of them.
All of that said, the point I am making is that you can not just take the augment from one ability and apply it to another ability, as you suggested would be the case. Each ability will have it's own augments for you to pick from, following the trees given from your secondary class.
Every ability has the possibility to be augmented by every augment.
Like I said in my edit above that I edited too late so I'll redo here
What that looks like is this
You have 50 augment points
My entire argument is that every ability might be augmentable by any augment, not that every ability will be augmented at once, like I said before.
You are getting augment and augment groups mixed up.
Each skill will have an available augment from each of the available augment groups that your secondary class makes available to you.
I am assuming you are looking at these loose groups of augments as being the actual augment - they are not. The augment is a specific thing from each group that can be applied to a specific ability - the augments are not these groups themselves.
Your examples above also completely ignore then known fact that abilities have ranks, and the higher the cost to augment an ability is tied specifically to its rank.
Where is this ever stated?
I'm pretty sure it's been pretty clear that Light will do something different based on the ability, not that there's a selection of Light augments you can choose from to apply to different abilities
IE: As Steven has described it, you apply teleport to charge to make it blink-charge
Not that you apply the teleport "blink" augment to charge to make it blink-charge
Edit: If what you are saying is true, then you might as well double or triple or even quadruple my original calculations because that's so many more customizable options.
I'm not a fan of picking words apart too much that Steven has said, as much of the time he is simplifying things to make it easier to understand.
However, the augment paths are often referred to as schools
Rather than adding a teleport augment to an ability, he talks about augmenting from the teleport school.
It was also described many years ago as each ability having an augment slot, as equipment does in any number of games, and players being able to fill that augment slot with augments from a number of different parts of the game.
If you look at the different ways we are able to get augments, presenting each augment as it's own unique thing that can be applied to a specific ability is really the only way they can be efficiently be presented to players.
Yes, them being referred to as schools has no bearing on this. It makes no difference because you're just applying the "school" to the ability.
Where does he ever mention augmenting from some deeper level of the teleport school?
And yes, once again you're describing exactly what I'm talking about when you mention the augment slot.
Whether it's point buy or static cost purchase of applying an augmentation makes no difference on this. My argument is simply that supposing the completely customizable abilities scenario: each and every skill will have a single different effect from each augmentation. Dagger Throw can be augmented by Light or Dark or Teleport or any other augment in a single way, each one having it's own single specific effect on the Dagger Throw skill.
And yes, you're just repeating what I've been saying back to me in your last line.
Every ability can have one augment applied to it at a time, but all augments are available to each skill. (Assuming the "complete customization" scenario described in the OP)
Anything else would add impossible amounts of variance on top of the already indescribable amount.
Since you are obviously not grasping what I am saying *at all*, I'll just point out where you are blatantly wrong, and see where you go from there.
It is known that quests and such from racial content, social organizations and religions will offer augments for a single ability.
No schools, no groups, just one augment that can be applied to one single, specific ability.
Where is this stated? I've looked at as many sources as I could find about this because I've tried to figure out what I should be looking forward to regarding augments and I haven't seen anything stating this.
I mean, just look here under religious augments or even under racial if you want. Everything here implies nothing about a single use augmentation. Even in the sources they don't imply it.
I still don't know where you're getting this school/group dynamic from either. As far as everything I've read and heard, everything is just a "school" that you apply to an ability. You apply Light to Dagger Throw, not the "self-heal" augment from the Light "tree" to Dagger Throw
And idk, I think I'm understanding what you're saying pretty clearly
As an example of how wrong the wiki can be sometimes, look at the page on corruption. Go to the alpha-1 section, all it says is that the corruption system will be tested in alpha-1. Then if you look, there is a source for that information - if you go to that source, it is literally an interview where Steven specifically says corruption will not be tested in alpha-1, but may be in phase 2.
So, the wiki says it will, then links directly to Steven saying it wont.
But hey, that's fine, you can just read the wiki and assume you're right.
Bro, come on.
I ASKED you where you've seen this, asked you to show me your source.
You're only rebuttal is that one my sources is wrong.
If you're right I don't care, I just want to know it's actually true.
You're also assuming I get all of my information solely from the wiki.
No, you kept arguing your point.
If you wanted to know where I got the information from, you would have ceased arguing your point.
You didnt do that.
You were more interested in "being right" than in understanding.
As such....
Literally all 3 of my previous replies to you have asked you to state your sources.
You're more interested in believing I'm just some nerd who wants to be right than making your point.
This discussion has devolved completely because you're not understanding anything of what I'm saying and refusing to try to
Edit: I don't want to have some dumb ad hominem argument with you. I'm trying real hard to help you understand what is known about the augment system and trying to get you to prove to me that I'm wrong so that I can update my knowledge to be right.
Edit2:
Not to mention this doesn't matter, because like I've already stated in the comment you replied to, the sources linked on the augment page have Steven saying exactly what is stated on the Wiki about augments.
I read the wiki and look at sources, miss me with that shit.
It's interesting how, three times in a row, you cut out the bit where you carried on your argument, proving that you didnt really want to know.
But hey, as I said - it's all good, you're right!
Oh wow, ok.
As if that detracts anything from wanting your source.
It's blatantly obvious you're projecting here lol.
Edit: In case it wasn't obvious, I only cropped the part that was relevant because it was what was relevant.
Anyone else reading through this who believes the same as @Noaani can you please link me where I can find out about the augment system he's referring to?
I could ask for a source in one comment and then continue the discussion in another immediate commant if you'd prefer.
So can you please provide a source?
Edit: Sorry everyone and mostly mods I don't like to spam like this normally, and try to keep all multiple arguments I'm making to the same comment instead of double posting, but @Noaani apparently can't handle that.
Projecting what?
If you want a source, you ask for it and then you wait. You dont ask for it and then carry on your argument in the same post.
That (especially when done three times in a row) indicates that you do not, in fact, want a source.
Fine.
Because apparently you can't comprehend multiple different lines of thought in a single comment and you need each comment to only discuss one thing...
Here.
Edit: Sorry everyone and mostly mods I don't like to spam like this normally, and try to keep all multiple arguments I'm making to the same comment instead of double posting, but @Noaani apparently can't handle that. If you feel you have to close the thread, I'll be sad because this topic matters to me, but it really has devolved into this now and I'll understand.
Why would they close the thread? It is a perfectly civil discussion.
Do you really think you have ingratiated me enough for me to care enough to do that now?
As I said, several times now, it's all good, you're right.
Edit: That being, if the first scenario I described in the OP (the complete customization one) is true, then all base abilities will have an augmented version for ever augment that exists.
And that this augment will be different for every ability.
Edit2:
Is it though? You're constantly ignoring my entire comment to tell me I'm wrong and using extreme bad faith, leading to me repeating the same thing many times to reiterate it. With the risk of getting slightly political it's like arguing with someone who's head is filled with Fox News propoganda, using the exact same shitty debate tactics of "ignore and use every fallacy in the book".
Honestly I'd believe you if you said you were just doing some top tier trolling.
That being said, I've thought (and had my fair share of forum arguments) that I hate how they call the primary/secondary archetype combo "classes" and how most of the augments seem to add flavor to skills instead of major revamps which does not really justify vastly different names like beast master vs necromancer as already mentioned here in an earlier comment. So I very much share the concerns that these "classes" will not feel as different as they really should and are made to sound.
That's very true, but even if you can only have 5 skills on your bar, every skill you may put on your bar has to have the augment options available to it for the players who will use it, so they have to develop for all those contingencies.
I personally would hope for a full customization system where each one has a little meaningful change behind it, but that's an unrealistic expectation. It's more likely that if they go this route it will be very minor changes.
I would be disappointed if only some skills could utilize certain augments (even if it completely changed the spell)
Hmm, I understand your idea and while it has validity, I personally prefer having the ultimate customizability that theoretically will take place with the systems they've described to us.
I like the idea that my Oracle could be not at all the same as another Oracle because they used mostly Fire and Teleport augments on abilities that I don't use while I use Ice and Lightning augments on abilities they don't, and each of us has built essentially a completely custom character that plays unique to our playstyle.
Edit: Of course if they are only minor differences that does make the customization negligible to say the least.
Totally get that, I just think there are multiple solutions to distinguishing one character from another who are playing the same "class". I still think that class identity will suffer from this framework but we shall see, this is what alpha and beta is for :P.
You almost gave me a heart attack. I was like only 5 skills!!! What is this a moba?!
Wiki confirms fewer than 30 skills on the action bar. (Which is a dumb limitation, but I guess that is what they want to do.)
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Haha, yea that'd be a little ridiculous
They definitely have some kind of numSkills limit because of the 25%/75% rule, but who knows if they'll even keep that
For sure, sometimes going an extreme can be as detrimental as going the opposite extreme. We can only wait and see and believe IS knows what they're doing lol