Deep dungeon

What do you think about a "deep dungeon" (palace of the dead/heaven on high) from FF14 in AoC? The reward will be kinda the same like in ff14, titel, minions, or mounts. The challenge would be to hit "floor 200".

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Nagash

could I have a house there?

Khronus

This is a pretty cool idea. I would certainly organize a group to delve as deep as we could. I don't have experience in what they have in FF but it would be need to obtain a key after every "X" floors that allow us to go back to that location if the same group goes in or something like that.

Nagash

Khronus wrote: »

This is a pretty cool idea. I would certainly organize a group to delve as deep as we could. I don't have experience in what they have in FF but it would be need to obtain a key after every "X" floors that allow us to go back to that location if the same group goes in or something like that.

sounds like a tower of babel (the fantasy one)

Vhaeyne

Please no.

This would take people out of the open world. To me it goes against the PvX nature of the game.

Also FFXIV seems to have abandon the idea themselves. Not many people use it outside of speed leveling alts.

If there was a open world dungeon that was a massive tower or unending pit of hell... That would be something worth considering.

Azryil

I love the idea of a deep dungeon, however I think FFXIV's implementation of them was fairly poor, they took all the progression out of them by scaling your power up with each floor of the dungeon, so regardless of your gear level you reach the end so long as your group wasn't terrible.

FutureCultLeader

It hurts that the game devs have an idea of bringing the MMO genre back to a state of enjoyability and yet 60% of the player base are asking for features they like in other games that are part of the problem.

Wandering Mist

I agree with @Vhaeyne here, the progressive procedural-generated dungeon doesn't really have a place in Ashes, especially one as poorly implemented as FFXIV.

bloodprophet

Interesting idea to have a mega open world dungeon that has many many floors and would take days to complete. Log out and stay in the dungeon come back and pick up where you left off.

Nagash

bloodprophet wrote: »

Interesting idea to have a mega open world dungeon that has many many floors and would take days to complete. Log out and stay in the dungeon come back and pick up where you left off.

I now want a game like that

Khronus

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Please no.

This would take people out of the open world. To me it goes against the PvX nature of the game.

Also FFXIV seems to have abandon the idea themselves. Not many people use it outside of speed leveling alts.

If there was a open world dungeon that was a massive tower or unending pit of hell... That would be something worth considering.

Ok you gave me a very interesting idea that might work.

One side of the map has a tower, the other side of the map has a cave/dungeon (better access to this content while still being different). Both of them have "X" floors or levels and both of them are open world but have multiple (maybe even several paths?). They would strictly be end game content difficulty, party sized (not raid size) and would penalize players who go in with more than the normal party size. Bosses every X levels and the mobs (not bosses) respawn quickly to encourage clearing quickly but also to prevent getting slaughtered from behind as easily.

An idea to help with zerging. This should be open world but instanced. You are allowed to go into the tower/dungeon with up to a max party size. Once inside you immediately get a 30 second invulnerability buff (to prevent players from camping the entrance from the inside). Players from the same guild or alliance will be allowed to join as well since it will be technically open world but when engaging with a boss if more than the party size are fighting it, it will go berserk and gain health/damage/speed/abilities or whatever else based on how many are fighting it above the normal amount.

At this point my mind is just rambling on through my fingertips. Seems like something that can be implemented fairly easily and provide some very unique gameplay while still including PVP both inside and out.

Khronus

FutureCultLeader wrote: »

It hurts that the game devs have an idea of bringing the MMO genre back to a state of enjoyability and yet 60% of the player base are asking for features they like in other games that are part of the problem.

AoC is breaking the mold and most of the community doesn't know how to compare this game to other games. There is nothing wrong with seeking features that were enjoyable in other games but ultimately failed to deliver on that content properly. Intrepid can do some much correct that others could not. Why not steal some ideas and capitalize on that uniqueness?

Vhaeyne

Khronus wrote: »

Ok you gave me a very interesting idea that might work.

One side of the map has a tower, the other side of the map has a cave/dungeon (better access to this content while still being different). Both of them have "X" floors or levels and both of them are open world but have multiple (maybe even several paths?). They would strictly be end game content difficulty, party sized (not raid size) and would penalize players who go in with more than the normal party size. Bosses every X levels and the mobs (not bosses) respawn quickly to encourage clearing quickly but also to prevent getting slaughtered from behind as easily.

An idea to help with zerging. This should be open world but instanced. You are allowed to go into the tower/dungeon with up to a max party size. Once inside you immediately get a 30 second invulnerability buff (to prevent players from camping the entrance from the inside). Players from the same guild or alliance will be allowed to join as well since it will be technically open world but when engaging with a boss if more than the party size are fighting it, it will go berserk and gain health/damage/speed/abilities or whatever else based on how many are fighting it above the normal amount.

At this point my mind is just rambling on through my fingertips. Seems like something that can be implemented fairly easily and provide some very unique gameplay while still including PVP both inside and out.

It is not a bad idea. One thing I was thinking that could allow for isolated encounters in open wolrd dungeons without zerging is dungeons with large rooms that have doors. The raid would activate a ritual or something to start summoning the boss. A timer would count down and if at the end of that timer there is no players who are not in the raid/group in the room, the doors would shut and the boss would summon. If the raid wipes the boss would leave and the whole thing would reset. This would allow open world PvX and isolated raid bosses. Such rooms could exist in a place like the ones you described. You could have smaller versions of this for 8 man groups too.

akabear

How long is a piece of string.. how deep is deep?

My personal preference is to have multiple and possibly interconnecting dungeons and expanding dungeons be that quest, level, unlock or expansion.

What I see in some MMO`s is by expanding content means expanding land two dimensionally, so longer travels. Whilst ok, I would much rather that the land was considered more three dimensionally so not just expand outward and increase the gross floor area of the map, but perhaps expand upward and downward

Tunnels, cave, dungeons interconnecting between areas and nodes with pop up entrances/exits
Cities that are not just eye candy upper levels but purposeful and meaningful.
Tree tops in the tallest forests become alternate cities

grisu

I haven't played FF so just from what I gather from the thread I don't think that's a good idea to recreate in Ashes.
I'm definitely for expansive dungeons tho, something you can literally waste hours in to clear (Blackrock depths come to mind).
That said, a dungeon that is truly deep and might take you out of the rest of the game for 2-3 days could be interesting. Something that's more like an expedition than a quick dungeon run. I don't know if that would fit into Ashes design but it does intrigue me.
I'm curious if IS will work more with triggers in their dungeons, being open world and all that than flat respawn timers. A group enters an area and they might encounter an enemy group right there, over there. The next one that enters doesn't but get's an enemy group in the corridor leading to the next room.
A mechanic like that would probably fit into the whole, expansive dungeon thingy.

Sholer

I will love to see a deep giant dungeon in AoC but it need to be open world. It wouldn't be great if is something instanced.

This example that you give us "palace of the dead" Is it something like torghast in shadowlands? I HATE IT.

George_Black

It has to be open world and no more than 15 or so floors.

Imagine chilling with your group and fighting mobs in a room on the 10th floor. You feel comfortable and the xp is good.
One of you says let's try to reach 14 today because there is a boss there.
And there you go, you start your way to reach 14, you manage it, it's too hard and you go back to 13. It's better than 10 and you are glad you got out of your comfort zone.

But little did you know that the strongest group of your enemy guild is on the way to kill the bosses on 14 and 15. They see you and wipe you.

Some times you win, some times you lose and some times open world areas like that are well implemented.

Shoelid

I like the idea of an open world, multi-layered dungeon that gets more difficult and more rewarding the deeper you go. Add in an element of attrition to force people out & make the dungeon loot full pvp-droppable (or tied to the caravan system) and I think you'd end up with a cool pvp-pve experience. could be a fun source of server drama and salty gamer tears

It makes me think of some of the ways Sea of Thieves encourages combat. In that game, obtaining the loot isn't even half the battle. The real difficulty comes in keeping it safe from other players.

The difficult part would be making it rewarding enough to participate in, but not so rewarding that everything in game revolves around it.

Bricktop

George Black wrote: »

It has to be open world and no more than 15 or so floors.

Imagine chilling with your group and fighting mobs in a room on the 10th floor. You feel comfortable and the xp is good.
One of you says let's try to reach 14 today because there is a boss there.
And there you go, you start your way to reach 14, you manage it, it's too hard and you go back to 13. It's better than 10 and you are glad you got out of your comfort zone.

But little did you know that the strongest group of your enemy guild is on the way to kill the bosses on 14 and 15. They see you and wipe you.

Some times you win, some times you lose and some times open world areas like that are well implemented.

So basically just have the Tower of Insolence. That will fit in nicely with the rest of the L2 copy and paste job.

https://l2wiki.com/classic/Tower_of_Insolence

Open world "dungeon" for characters level 58-78. I wish more people would have experienced something like this so they had a better idea of how dungeons should work in open world games. This is so much better than WoW styled dungeons that a small minority of people keep wanting and pleading for.

Edit: Here's a PvP video of a massive fight breaking out in the middle of The Tower of Insolence. Timestamp doesn't work but it's 1:37 for the fight starting. Volume Warning.

The possibilities of open world games are fun.

https://youtu.be/rJM9cbCbNVc?t=97

akabear

I wonder how XP`ing at distance from town for prolonged periods will work with no fast travel and limited/no capacity to send stuff back to warehouse.

If fighting requires expendables and/or if one`s inventory is full, then how long will players venture out might end up quite limited..

Unless there are workarounds.

Asgerr

While I am a big FFXIV fan, I must say I also agree that it's probably a bad idea for the concept of play that AoC is going for.

Wanna give me a deeeeeeeeeep open world dungeon/raid, similar to something like the manga Made in Abyss, or the Undermountain in D&D, then sure.
It would keep the open world and PvX ideas, with a necessary focus on risk reward, as dying deep in the dungeon would force you to lose a number or resources and materials, and going to retrieve them could take ages.

It would also attract a lot of player, for however long that raid/dungeon could be explorable, as it might change with different nodes developing etc.

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