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PVP/Corruption

ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
are there going to be any zones that corruption does not apply? zones/areas, i know in alot of games pvpers love to group up with a mate or two and go look for battles in the open world, i feel like corruption sort of ruins this entire experience, i think corruption is a good concept but sort of ruins pvp a bit, maybe corruption should only apply once you have killed people more than 2 or 3 times?

what are you thoughts?

Comments

  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    There is pvp, which doesn't lead to corruption. There is PKing, which does lead to corruption.

    If you are a PKer and corrupt, I like the idea that you can drop your gear. Actions have consequences.
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    this is true but say you want to go out in the world with a buddy and have some good 2v2 or 1v1 fights corruption sort of prevents you from doing it, most pvpers will agree large scale pvp is nowhere near as fun as small scale skirmishes its just a huge boring lag fest that you get insta killed in, i just hope corruption does not prevent world pvp
  • @Shuiyn
    Well, I personally wouldn't really consider it open world if there was specific zone/area for that, even if it was somewhere "in the wild", so it honestly doesn't make much sense to me in the first place. Did you mean just some random area meant for that? Or places of interest like dungeon entrances, high level farming spots etc.?There should be plenty of systems that allow you to pvp safely in the open world. Bounty hunter system, caravans, node wars, guild wars etc if you want to go out with friends to cause trouble... But just randomly attacking people, you should never be safe from corruption in my opinion.
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Shuiyn wrote: »
    this is true but say you want to go out in the world with a buddy and have some good 2v2 or 1v1 fights corruption sort of prevents you from doing it, most pvpers will agree large scale pvp is nowhere near as fun as small scale skirmishes its just a huge boring lag fest that you get insta killed in, i just hope corruption does not prevent world pvp

    Just go from tavern to tavern and ask who wants to pvp. Or go from city to city and holler who wants to pvp. Or be a bit of a roleplayer...go into a tavern and tell the group drinking at the bar that their momma was a bearded dwarf who slept with an ugly orc and pick a fight. Call 'em a dork! Get it? Dwarf sleeps with an orc and their baby is a dork. ha ha ha!
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    read the wiki all the info is there


    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited April 2021
    The idea of a "wild west" zone has intrigued me for a while too, where corruption doesn't apply. I'd always thought the Ocean would be a good place for this, sort of the "international waters" where laws don't apply.

    However if I recall, Intrepid has stated in a livestream this is not something they are looking at including in the game. This could have changed. but nothing I've heard/seen would indicate this has changed.

    And I get their reasoning, they want meaningful PVP, that matters in the grand scheme of things. There needs to be risk vs reward in your choices, a theme that is at the center of AoC. Is the risk of going out to gather materials worth getting possibly ganked?? Is the risk of ganking that gatherer worth the corruption?

    Intrepid seems to want to keep the game from funneling people "out of" the world into locations that have little to no consequence to the world as a whole. PvP is going to be focused around caravans, guild wars and sieges. There's going to be groups with Kill on Sight orders for eachother, making how you deal with others on the server matter.

    As much as it would be cool to have a "wild west" zone in AoC, I just don't see it really fitting in the design of the game as we know it.
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  • ShadonSolShadonSol Moderator, Member, Alpha One
    Shuiyn wrote: »
    this is true but say you want to go out in the world with a buddy and have some good 2v2 or 1v1 fights corruption sort of prevents you from doing it
    You only get corrupted if you kill a non-combatant. So going out with a group of friends to fight each other is not a problem, as long as you're all flagged as combatants.

    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Caravan raiding is corruption free.
    You can kill and loot without consequences.
    Same as node and castle sieges
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Caravan raiding is corruption free.
    You can kill and loot without consequences.
    Same as node and castle sieges

    Killing and Looting Caravans WILL have consequences. Someone is going to be looking to get their loot back, and you may have just ganked the GM of some guild's caravan who will now put your guild on Kill On Sight.

    There's consequences for sure, just not corruption.
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  • Karthos wrote: »
    The idea of a "wild west" zone has intrigued me for a while too, where corruption doesn't apply. I'd always thought the Ocean would be a good place for this, sort of the "international waters" where laws don't apply.

    However if I recall, Intrepid has stated in a livestream this is not something they are looking at including in the game. This could have changed. but nothing I've heard/seen would indicate this has changed.

    And I get their reasoning, they want meaningful PVP, that matters in the grand scheme of things. There needs to be risk vs reward in your choices, a theme that is at the center of AoC. Is the risk of going out to gather materials worth getting possibly ganked?? Is the risk of ganking that gatherer worth the corruption?

    Intrepid seems to want to keep the game from funneling people "out of" the world into locations that have little to no consequence to the world as a whole. PvP is going to be focused around caravans, guild wars and sieges. There's going to be groups with Kill on Sight orders for eachother, making how you deal with others on the server matter.

    As much as it would be cool to have a "wild west" zone in AoC, I just don't see it really fitting in the design of the game as we know it.

    Well, it kinda goes like this,

    If you make a zone where corruption does not apply, the only people who will show up there, are people looking to just PvP. No PvE player in their right mind would show up there unless forced to. And if you think showing up to a PvP zone with one or two people will be safe... good luck.

    If this game plays anything like Lineage 2, and I think it will because the flagging system is amazing in certain ways... PvP will be alive and well in this game, and going corrupt will be a thing, but you will find most people will fight back if they have something valuable on them that they do not want to lose.

    Plus, going corrupt usually only happens when emotions get involved one way or another and the player going corrupt does not care about the consequences that will follow. If you are out to just PvP, go up and hit someone and see how they react... if they fight back... game on, if they dont, go hit someone else.
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Recluse74 wrote: »

    Well, it kinda goes like this,

    If you make a zone where corruption does not apply, the only people who will show up there, are people looking to just PvP. No PvE player in their right mind would show up there unless forced to. And if you think showing up to a PvP zone with one or two people will be safe... good luck.

    If this game plays anything like Lineage 2, and I think it will because the flagging system is amazing in certain ways... PvP will be alive and well in this game, and going corrupt will be a thing, but you will find most people will fight back if they have something valuable on them that they do not want to lose.

    Plus, going corrupt usually only happens when emotions get involved one way or another and the player going corrupt does not care about the consequences that will follow. If you are out to just PvP, go up and hit someone and see how they react... if they fight back... game on, if they dont, go hit someone else.

    I think I understand what you're saying, but the first paragraph is a little unclear in where you stand, pro or con on PVP Zones. I also don't subscribe to the "only PVP players will go to PVP zones" because in theory this is true, but in reality, unless said PVP zone is an active and integral part of the game world, and not an isolated playground where only the tough kids go, then it's pretty dead in most games.

    I do expect we will see a good many aspects of Lineage 2 in Ashes, given Steven has said it being a big influence on him, having played it for many years himself.

    Not sure I also agree with your "corruption only happens when emotions get involved" statement. Not only is this impossible to quantify, but it's just factually untrue. PVP and ganking happen all the time for reasons other than emotions. I found this a really odd thing to say and maybe I misunderstood you? Sure, it's probably true some of the time, but it's not the exclusive reason.

    I do agree that "most people will fight back", this is something that's even encouraged by the current corruption system by minimizing the punishment for death if you too flag up to fight back. Logically, there's no reason not to fight back unless you are so sure you can't win. You may fight back and actually win, and thus get some of their materials. You never know. It's always a better option to fight back.
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  • SaeduSaedu Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Recluse74 wrote: »
    If you are out to just PvP, go up and hit someone and see how they react... if they fight back... game on, if they dont, go hit someone else.

    This pretty much sums it up.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    I was playing L2 for many years for 5+ hours every day. Even now sometimes I start over on a new server. The corruption system is 100% the same.

    Trust me when I say that every day I would smallscale pvp. Alone, duo or with 3-5 more friends. Every day there was PvP without worrying about corruption.

    Most games isolate PvP and PvE into instanced contents or conditional zones.
    In AoC everything will be in the open world. The flagging and corruption system are necessary to protect all the other systems, activities and progress going on.
    Without it, PvP would overtake everything else, with the only solution for the game to introduce more instanced PvE, questing and gathering, or isolate PvP in a meaningless zone like Cyrodiil in L2.
  • Karthos wrote: »
    Recluse74 wrote: »

    Well, it kinda goes like this,

    If you make a zone where corruption does not apply, the only people who will show up there, are people looking to just PvP. No PvE player in their right mind would show up there unless forced to. And if you think showing up to a PvP zone with one or two people will be safe... good luck.

    If this game plays anything like Lineage 2, and I think it will because the flagging system is amazing in certain ways... PvP will be alive and well in this game, and going corrupt will be a thing, but you will find most people will fight back if they have something valuable on them that they do not want to lose.

    Plus, going corrupt usually only happens when emotions get involved one way or another and the player going corrupt does not care about the consequences that will follow. If you are out to just PvP, go up and hit someone and see how they react... if they fight back... game on, if they dont, go hit someone else.

    I think I understand what you're saying, but the first paragraph is a little unclear in where you stand, pro or con on PVP Zones. I also don't subscribe to the "only PVP players will go to PVP zones" because in theory this is true, but in reality, unless said PVP zone is an active and integral part of the game world, and not an isolated playground where only the tough kids go, then it's pretty dead in most games.

    I do expect we will see a good many aspects of Lineage 2 in Ashes, given Steven has said it being a big influence on him, having played it for many years himself.

    Not sure I also agree with your "corruption only happens when emotions get involved" statement. Not only is this impossible to quantify, but it's just factually untrue. PVP and ganking happen all the time for reasons other than emotions. I found this a really odd thing to say and maybe I misunderstood you? Sure, it's probably true some of the time, but it's not the exclusive reason.

    I do agree that "most people will fight back", this is something that's even encouraged by the current corruption system by minimizing the punishment for death if you too flag up to fight back. Logically, there's no reason not to fight back unless you are so sure you can't win. You may fight back and actually win, and thus get some of their materials. You never know. It's always a better option to fight back.

    I am against a zone where PvP does not follow the open world flagging system. It just does not make sense to zone off an area where everything goes.

    PvP only zone would not attract PvE only players unless there was rare material in that zone. And even then it would be a get in and get out scenario for them.

    It would be like making a plant gathering only zone.. why would anyone who is not into plant gathering go into the zone?

    I guess that is how I see it. I may be wrong.. who knows, but this is in fact how I would see this playing out.

    PvP happens all of the time without emotions... 100% true
    Ganking usually turns into PvP .. and as stated above PvP does not need emotions.

    Going corrupt is a different story though. I will give you the fact is not 100% emotional, but I am still wiling to bet it is 98 - 99% of the reason to go corrupt.

    What do you gain by going corrupt in this game?
    1. A few drops from the player killed.
    2. corruption for killing non combatant.
    3. stress due to bounty hunters coming after you.
    4. stress due to the higher chance you drop your gear

    If you keep going corrupt, the amount of corruption increases.. making it harder to work, or die off. The higher chances of gear dropping, and the loss of XP if you are indeed killed multiple times while corrupt.

    Over time.. if you keep going corrupt, you will eventually render this character useless.. You basically become perma corrupt, because the stacks of corruption on you are near impossible to work off or die off. And every time you log in, bounty hunters will be after you, with your location on the map. So that becomes a log in and log out game that gets old quick..

    Basically works like this.. and I am using round numbers to make it easier for to show.

    You kill your first player and go corrupt...
    you gain 10 corruption points and it takes you 20 minutes to work it off by killing mobs.

    You are now a normal player again, and you yet again kill another player going corrupt...
    you now gain 15 corruption and it takes you 23 minutes to work it off.

    You are now normal again and you kill a third person and go corrupt...
    you now gain 25 corruption points and so on and so on.

    And this was without a bounty hunter system like AoC has.

    In Lineage 2, I went corrupt a few times because of an Roll Player who put a contract on my life due to a mob stealing incident at level 2, during launch.. I was now his mortal enemy.. So... for the grief he caused me with multiple contracts on my life.. I killed him when I had a chance because I was pissed... at first it was no problem.. but it got to a point.. and not to deep into it.. it was becoming increasingly not worth it anymore. At one point I was grinding my corruption down solo, with a healer in tow and it would take me almost 2 hours to to work it all off. This is not counting the times I had to log off due to players coming after me and playing on an alt to pass the time.

    So in the end.. going corrupt is just not wort it, and usually only happens when emotions are involved. You really have to hate a player in order to put yourself through the misery of the consequences.







  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member
    edited April 2021
    Nagash wrote: »
    read the wiki all the info is there

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP

    ^This.^


    "Corruption" in a forums thread title is the closest you can get to clickbait these days.

    Because you never know if someone has actually read the wiki ... or is just posting their personal view on how the system "should" work.

    The game has yet to hit full stride in Alpha-1. Imagine this topic right before Launch.
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