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Subclasses "Design and Skill Ideas"

Hello, Citizen of Verra

I was thinking about all the Classes and how interesting and relevant they really can be. My fear is that we will have the double base classes and a bunch of fluff classes that only get picked up if some mod is op. My guess is making all the different Subclasses in some way interesting but still keeping them balanced is one of the biggest challenges. So even without all the information about the base class Skills, we could start pitching some ideas about how we would love classes to be without going crazy.
So to give an example...I'm most likely going to play a Necromancer, but without more Information regarding the Summoner Skills, I can’t say much about the Necromancer modifications. Alternatively, I was thinking about the Blade Caller, let's imagine the Fighter Class having a Damage Buff in his arsenal. For the Blade Caller, I would love to see a mod. to change this to a Damage over Time Aura skill, with swords attacking enemies in Range.
It's pretty easy to imagine this being something that makes the class rly stylish and makes the change feel relevant to pick up the class.

If you have a strong opinion about classes and things you would love them to represent or do just let us know.. and maybe with more information about the Base Classes, we can give even more specific ideas later.

Thx and I'm looking forward to your Ideas and View of classes

Anzoul Citizen of Verra

Comments

  • With what little we have seen to date it appears that the goal is that the secondary class doesn't so much change the class, giving no skills but augments based on the skills of the base class taken to change the nature of your primary class chosen skills.

    The design behind augments is to not just change the flavor so that it reflects the secondary archetype, but it also fundamentally changes the core components of a skill.[18] – Steven Sharif

    In theory the augments shouldn't be too overwhelming for meta builds but create lots of situational metas, conforming to play styles to give a wide variaty of competative choices. But how they will avoid the meta of being same class combos has me beat.

    I'm even more confused by some of the two class names like Falconer or Keeper. It has been stated that the summon augment to non summoner primary class will just summon weapons so...
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    While I am not totally sure about this, I believe that the secondary class can be changed without too much trouble. Is that right?
  • McShaveMcShave Member
    edited April 2021
    When Intrepid finally gets around to implementing the augmentation system, that is when we can start theory crafting and having fun playing with the 64 class idea. But until then, we really have no speculation as to what it will be like. I would love to help Intrepid design some augments and get the community involved, but we really don't know anything about it besides fundamentally how it would work. Hopefully we see it for Alpha 2.

    From what we know, it sounds like a pretty boring system. Adding fire damage to an ability or whatever, super lame. I hope the augments really change up the flavour of gameplay from one subclass to another. I hope they are putting they're greatest game design minds behind this, because the augmentation system will make or break this game imo.

    edit: there are many systems that will "make or break" this game, but augmentation is up there.
  • tautau wrote: »
    While I am not totally sure about this, I believe that the secondary class can be changed without too much trouble. Is that right?
    Yes, there will be a cost and maybe a quest or something but it's not final.
    McShave wrote: »
    When Intrepid finally gets around to implementing the augmentation system, that is when we can start theory crafting and having fun playing with the 64 class idea. But until then, we really have no speculation as to what it will be like. I would love to help Intrepid design some augments and get the community involved, but we really don't know anything about it besides fundamentally how it would work. Hopefully we see it for Alpha 2.

    From what we know, it sounds like a pretty boring system. Adding fire damage to an ability or whatever, super lame. I hope the augments really change up the flavour of gameplay from one subclass to another. I hope they are putting they're greatest game design minds behind this, because the augmentation system will make or break this game imo.

    You are right about the theory crafting, but maybe some people would love to see certain classes be a certain way and they want to share it with us ;) doesn't necessarily have to be about skills.
    I think it's less a make-or-break situation like if combat is good or shit.. that's a dealbreaker in my eyes, but having 64 classes and all but the base classes are just a title and nothing more would feel very weak for sure.
  • Anzoul wrote: »
    You are right about the theory crafting, but maybe some people would love to see certain classes be a certain way and they want to share it with us ;) doesn't necessarily have to be about skills.

    In your OP, you said you are excited about the Necromancer. What kind of spells would you like the Summoner to have, and how do you see them being augmented by the Cleric to have the necromancer feel?

    I am looking forward to playing the fighter/ tank (dreadnought). Im hoping to have a lot of weapon based attacks, maybe a whirlwind type attack, with a charge type ability, and using weapon procs to boost my damage. Hopefully with the tank secondary i can add a lot of threat generation to my abilities so that I can offtank in dungeons, or maybe damage mitigation augments so that i can survive longer in PvP encounters as well.
  • McShave wrote: »
    From what we know, it sounds like a pretty boring system. Adding fire damage to an ability or whatever, super lame.

    Certainly it is in danger of being lame, but interacting systems can be vastly more interesting than base powers.

    Reading Steven's various quotes on the class and augment pages, and what I recall from live streams, the augments appear to be very tailored to skills. So some augments can only be applied to some skills specifically, and may require higher skill point valued skills. The other mentions imply to me that we are only going to see two (so far) augments per class. ie for cleric life and death, for mage teleport and elemental power (which then has fire, cold, and lightning depending on the applied skill).

    These are never mentioned as having extra damage (generally the crudist but most effective meta), but adding additional effects, ie cold augment giving attack cold type damage and possibly slowing targets.

    So I would extrapolate that a Dreadnaught might have a Threat generating augment and a damage mitigating augment. Possibly if a threat generating augment is applied to a higher skill point wirlwind attack that has a duration, it also radiates a taunt that draws enemies into it. Applying the damage mitigating augment to a charge skill then gives a dmg reduction buff for the period after the charge.

    Both of these examples would change the very playing nature of the skills from a base fighter.

    Though this theorycrafting falls apart as how would summon augments on ranger arrow attacks not be extra damage...
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited April 2021
    My fear is the augments will be like Diablo 3's "augments" without the variety of gear effects to make builds pop off.
    This is a pretty annoying problem because having pop-off builds doesn't work in PvP, especially if you're aiming for ttk of 30 seconds, but without them the augments are kindof underwhelming.

    I do hope the augment system becomes bigger than they envisioned, but I intend to play regardless.
    I also wonder if it might be a better idea for them to "awaken" a set of augments every few updates instead of trying to design them all at once. Not sure if this was already promised in the kickstarter though.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • McShave wrote: »
    In your OP, you said you are excited about the Necromancer. What kind of spells would you like the Summoner to have, and how do you see them being augmented by the Cleric to have the necromancer feel?

    To be honest I haven't played a necromancer in my 30 years of playing mmorpg's so I'm more excited about the idea and having acquired the appropriate buildings for my freehold ;) more ideas about how I would like the class to be will follow when I get an idea about the general direction of the class. But that's just my case, other people may have played necromancers and they feel strong about how it should be.
    maouw wrote: »
    I also wonder if it might be a better idea for them to "awaken" a set of augments every few updates instead of trying to design them all at once. quote]

    Yes, I think it's very likely that people won't be very happy/ or satisfied (I might be proven wrong) with what the difference in classes will be in the end, and I would be happy with 1-2 variations of each class and them to really feel different, but I guess we will see.
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    My major concern with the augment system is how much and in what ways can skills be changed. An example of my concern is damaging classes never really getting enough utility effects added to their kits. I like the enchanter archtype, a mage who buffs and support with most of their kits and has a minority of damage options. Im hoping some augments go as far as to WEAKEN the damage of a skill in trade for cc's or ally buff/enemy debuffs
  • GoatrekGoatrek Member
    edited May 2021
    I was initially thinking about playing a beastmaster but I kinda fear the summoner sub-classes will lack class identity. Just the thought of a beastmaster and a necromancer only being a respec away from each other sounds off since they both represent very clear and niche class fantasies. This is partially on me though for thinking about the 64 variations as separate classes rather than variations of 8 classes but still. I just dont see how this system will be able to create a fully envisioned necromancer and a fully envisioned beastmaster without them feelingvery close and reskins of a core summoner baseline design.

    But I hope the necromancer ends up as what you want @Anzoul
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    This is all my own speculation.

    In what ive heard of how the augment systems work, and how the summoner is kind of in its own catagory for how augments woud effect the summons, my thoughts on how it would come together is. Your applied augment is going to determin the "species" of your summon, and those "species" will have stats befiting them. So the augments the beast master has access to should make beast like summons with stats befitting them, while the necromancer has undead "species" with stats befitting them. For the summoned pet specifically. How their other abilities differ i dont have speculation.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Goatrek wrote: »
    I was initially thinking about playing a beastmaster but I kinda fear the summoner sub-classes will lack class identity. Just the thought of a beastmaster and a necromancer only being a respec away from each other sounds off since they both represent very clear and niche class fantasies. This is partially on me though for thinking about the 64 variations as separate classes rather than variations of 8 classes but still. I just dont see how this system will be able to create a fully envisioned necromancer and a fully envisioned beastmaster without them feelingvery close and reskins of a core summoner baseline design.

    But I hope the necromancer ends up as what you want @Anzoul
    Well, keep in mind that each class is sub-divided into 3 or 4 schools of augments.
    I don't think the Beastmaster schools will just be a reskin of the Necromancer schools.

    But... we need more info.
  • GoatrekGoatrek Member
    edited May 2021
    Good point. Looking forward to more info for sure.
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