Simple yet effective fireball animation

TacualeonTacualeon Member
edited May 2 in General Discussion
Remember this?
jZxKKY.gif

I want to contribute, so I'll leave two things:
1) Knowledge that I think is precious.
2) And reference for throwing animation.


1- As I have stated before, I think humans have intuitive understanding of things, and while it might be hard to put into words sometimes, we notice when something doesn't "feel" right, it feels "floaty" or without weight.

Humans have 3 passives.
-Sweating for long distance running.
-Opposing thumbs.
-Throwing.
giphy.gif
kimbrel-fastball.gif

Throwing is so natural and human that when we see a "bad" throw we know it.
I think that, what happened with the first animation (That we all knew was just a placeholder) Intrepid tried to make something aesthetics but they walked over biomechanics and human behavior (I think)

I found a simple throw animation that with the correct timing can become a great animation.

cast1.png
execute1.png

In this case. I found the "sweet" spot of the animation at 0.2857515.
The part where the anthropomorphic mesh looks more tense and ready for the final release.
maximumtension.png



Reference
reference1.png
reference2.png

If Intrepid decides to take something from this. Motion to build the illusion of energy through body rotation, and key pose with the shoulder tense and ready to release.

I hope this doesn't come as pretentious and I'm sorry for the messy grammar in some of the pictures. Quite hard to edit paint text.

Thought, and a bit of art.

Comments

  • KaielogyKaielogy Member
    Just do it like Liu Kang of mortal combat
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  • DreohDreoh Member
    edited May 2
    Pretty sure they've already changed the animation to be much less extra

    But this is a nice well-explained post about animations and shows why people hated the twirl so much
  • MarcetMarcet Member
    exactly man, just show it and throw it, let me know u have the fireball in your hand and throw it to me
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited May 2
    Marcet wrote: »
    exactly man, just show it and throw it, let me know u have the fireball in your hand and throw it to me

    What do you do?
    wdy.png


    Thought, and a bit of art.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men
    Its magic.

    That is all
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • maouwmaouw Member
    Nagash wrote: »
    Its magic.

    That is all

    I kinda agree with this - when things are more magical, it's less about physicality, and more about T pose dominance.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men
    maouw wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    Its magic.

    That is all

    I kinda agree with this - when things are more magical, it's less about physicality, and more about T pose dominance.

    I mean we have skeletons that can cast spells with not muscles or voices
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • KhronusKhronus Member
    @Tacualeon They definitely changed the horrible fireball mechanics that were originally displayed. It's pre alpha and many things will changed based on our feedback.

    I know this is completely off topic but I am deeply disturbed by your thoughts on how many passives humans have lol. I'm assuming you meant opposing thumbs and not opposite thumbs. Sweating isn't just for long distance running. It keeps us at an optimal temperature from all sorts of scenarios. How about the ability to reason, control our emotions, survival, foraging, building (yeah, we are all builders but humans are now just lazy).

    @Nagash I agree completely. Humans don't have magic thus Intrepid has the freedom to do whatever they want.

    Personally I have always yearned for magic to be summoned by the caster and harnessed from the arm and out the tip of their weapon. The smaller the weapon, the weaker the physical damage but the higher the magical damage. That way a mage/witch/wizard/my mother in law could use a 2 handed axe but don't expect the spells to be all powerful. Just my own thoughts over the years haha.
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited May 3
    Khronus wrote: »
    @Tacualeon assuming you meant opposing thumbs and not opposite thumbs. Sweating isn't just for long distance running. It keeps us at an optimal temperature from all sorts of scenarios. How about the ability to reason, control our emotions, survival, foraging, building (yeah, we are all builders but humans are now just lazy).

    Khronus Yes, opposing thumbs, edited :D
    Thanks for the correction. I was just adressing features of our anthropomorphic shape.


    I think saying things like "It's magic" is mentally lazy, leads to mediocrity and disconnect players from the world one is trying to create.
    I find beauty in thoughtful gameplay and interaction and while I'm not the holder of the ultimate truth, I think all good games have thought behind things.
    Thought, and a bit of art.
  • DreohDreoh Member
    maouw wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    Its magic.

    That is all

    I kinda agree with this - when things are more magical, it's less about physicality, and more about T pose dominance.

    Which is more immersive, someone standing still and a beam fires out of their shoulder, or the hadouken/kamehameha motion to cast a beam?

    Because to me it's glaringly obvious that one just makes more sense.
  • KhronusKhronus Member
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    Khronus wrote: »
    @Tacualeon assuming you meant opposing thumbs and not opposite thumbs. Sweating isn't just for long distance running. It keeps us at an optimal temperature from all sorts of scenarios. How about the ability to reason, control our emotions, survival, foraging, building (yeah, we are all builders but humans are now just lazy).

    Khronus Yes, opposing thumbs :D
    Thanks for the correction. I was just adressing features of our anthropomorphic shape.


    I think saying things like "It's magic" is mentally lazy, leads to mediocrity and disconnect players from the world one is trying to create.
    I find beauty in thoughtful gameplay and interaction and while I'm not the holder of the ultimate truth, I think all good games have thought behind things.

    Considering magic is not real in real life but it is part of gaming....I would argue that "it's magic" is a fine argument. I don't mean "it's magic" so let's just have them stand still and have fire farts appear out of fingertips. I mean "it's magic" as in....let them use their imagination to come up with great (and practical) ways to deliver spells. The original fireball was absolute trash. I'm sorry artist and/or decision maker (I still love you) but it was BAD. Somewhere in between that floaty awkward animation and swinging a fireball like a baseball is what I am hoping for.

    I enjoyed the way they approached spells in Harry Potter. Different people used the wand in different ways to the same outcome. Maybe there is something there that can further set AoC apart from competition by giving players the option to pick from a set of poses when casting. Rough, dexterous, fancy, etc. That would be pretty awesome.
  • DreohDreoh Member
    Khronus wrote: »
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    Khronus wrote: »
    @Tacualeon assuming you meant opposing thumbs and not opposite thumbs. Sweating isn't just for long distance running. It keeps us at an optimal temperature from all sorts of scenarios. How about the ability to reason, control our emotions, survival, foraging, building (yeah, we are all builders but humans are now just lazy).

    Khronus Yes, opposing thumbs :D
    Thanks for the correction. I was just adressing features of our anthropomorphic shape.


    I think saying things like "It's magic" is mentally lazy, leads to mediocrity and disconnect players from the world one is trying to create.
    I find beauty in thoughtful gameplay and interaction and while I'm not the holder of the ultimate truth, I think all good games have thought behind things.

    Considering magic is not real in real life but it is part of gaming....I would argue that "it's magic" is a fine argument. I don't mean "it's magic" so let's just have them stand still and have fire farts appear out of fingertips. I mean "it's magic" as in....let them use their imagination to come up with great (and practical) ways to deliver spells. The original fireball was absolute trash. I'm sorry artist and/or decision maker (I still love you) but it was BAD. Somewhere in between that floaty awkward animation and swinging a fireball like a baseball is what I am hoping for.

    I enjoyed the way they approached spells in Harry Potter. Different people used the wand in different ways to the same outcome. Maybe there is something there that can further set AoC apart from competition by giving players the option to pick from a set of poses when casting. Rough, dexterous, fancy, etc. That would be pretty awesome.

    I'm confused, in the first paragraph you're arguing against immersive, somatic requirements, but in the second you're arguing for them?
  • KhronusKhronus Member
    @Dreoh I'm arguing that making a fireball cast look exactly like throwing a baseball would be dumb. Give the design team time to come up with shit that meets in the middle of what both sides of this argument want.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Khronus wrote: »
    I'm arguing that making a fireball cast look exactly like throwing a baseball would be dumb. Give the design team time to come up with shit that meets in the middle of what both sides of this argument want.
    This was my initial thoughts to this thread as well.

    It makes no sense - from any perspective- for a mage that summoners a ball of fire to then also have to get their weight in and physically throw said fireball.

    I mean, fire has no weight or mass, so getting your weight in behind something that has no weight is just pointless.

    The argument that throwing a ball of massless, weightless energy requires actual physical exertion is laughable. Anyone that believes this should get themselves a handful of smoke (cold smoke, dont burn yourself) and try and throw it.

    It could then be argued that the mage is summoning a ball that is on fire, and throwing this ball. This is problematic for a number of reasons, as it means the magea physical attributes are now determining the range and accuracy of their fireball.

    Then we have to determine what happens to this ball after it hits its target (or after it misses). Does the ball persist in the world?

    We can answer any of these questions easily with "because magic". The mage is able to throw fire because magic. The mage is able to throw a summoned ball accurately and to a specific distance regardless of physical stature because magic. The ball disappears after contact because magic.

    The problem with this is that we are then explaining away things that dont make sense with "because magic", which means we can also just say the mage directs the fireball with their mind (not their arm), because magic.

    Now, if the OP were talking about a class that was throwing axes, darts or such, I would agree 100%.
  • DreohDreoh Member
    Noaani wrote: »
    Khronus wrote: »
    I'm arguing that making a fireball cast look exactly like throwing a baseball would be dumb. Give the design team time to come up with shit that meets in the middle of what both sides of this argument want.
    This was my initial thoughts to this thread as well.

    It makes no sense - from any perspective- for a mage that summoners a ball of fire to then also have to get their weight in and physically throw said fireball.

    I mean, fire has no weight or mass, so getting your weight in behind something that has no weight is just pointless.

    The argument that throwing a ball of massless, weightless energy requires actual physical exertion is laughable. Anyone that believes this should get themselves a handful of smoke (cold smoke, dont burn yourself) and try and throw it.

    It could then be argued that the mage is summoning a ball that is on fire, and throwing this ball. This is problematic for a number of reasons, as it means the magea physical attributes are now determining the range and accuracy of their fireball.

    Then we have to determine what happens to this ball after it hits its target (or after it misses). Does the ball persist in the world?

    We can answer any of these questions easily with "because magic". The mage is able to throw fire because magic. The mage is able to throw a summoned ball accurately and to a specific distance regardless of physical stature because magic. The ball disappears after contact because magic.

    The problem with this is that we are then explaining away things that dont make sense with "because magic", which means we can also just say the mage directs the fireball with their mind (not their arm), because magic.

    Now, if the OP were talking about a class that was throwing axes, darts or such, I would agree 100%.

    Even if it has 0 mass, you still need to give it velocity, whether that be flicking your finger or swinging your arm.

    If it gets velocity somehow by you standing still, like my shoulder beam example, it's just not intriguing.
  • JirueJirue Member
    edited May 3
    Yeah, the original animation immediately made me think of this...
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Dreoh wrote: »
    If it gets velocity somehow by you standing still, like my shoulder beam example, it's just not intriguing.
    No one cares about your shoulder beam thing. Yes, it is stupid, but it is less stupid than using your hand to try and throw fire.
  • Kiv3kKiv3k Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    edited May 3
    Without the twirl you risk having the fireball come back and hit you if you cast upwards, everyone knows arrows are superior I think you should twirl 4 times. Pqik.gif
  • TragnarTragnar Member
    Even though it is really amusing to read amateur posts about animations I don't think you should make suggestions on what to change. The extent of what you should say is this: "The animation doesnt look believable and is immersion breaking"
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    edited May 4
    I think it doesn't matter.
    The artists are going to decide how they wish to design their animations.
    It's a high fantasy setting, so we should not be surprised that the devs might go for some overly dramatic flare.

    Doesn't take a genius to note that Humans cannot jump that high off the ground or pause in mid-air.
    Once characters are doing that - the critique that the actual arm-throw poses aren't realistic is rather moot.
  • TragnarTragnar Member
    What matters is if the animations are liked by the players - so giving feedback in the sense that the animations look weird, or unbelievable or anything in these terms then it is only a good thing and that definitely matters
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Looking "weird" is one thing. The equivalent of, "that's poor animation because people can't really jump that high or pause in mid-air" is another thing.
    I didn't make a general comment like, "giving feedback doesn't matter."
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men
    Dreoh wrote: »
    maouw wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    Its magic.

    That is all

    I kinda agree with this - when things are more magical, it's less about physicality, and more about T pose dominance.

    Which is more immersive, someone standing still and a beam fires out of their shoulder, or the hadouken/kamehameha motion to cast a beam?

    Because to me it's glaringly obvious that one just makes more sense.

    I mean you can have that but you can also have light beams shoot out of your eyes as well
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
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