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Looted/Rewarded Gear Appearance --> Biome Based

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Comments

  • AsgerrAsgerr Member, Alpha Two
    Dreoh wrote: »
    How about you all take your argument to a thread designed to argue about the store? This is a thread about biome based looks that cannot be bought in the store, so please just let this be what it was supposed to be.

    The argument is directly related to it, and it's not about the store at all.

    Not really. On this thread I am strictly talking about in game earned gear (through quests or drops).

    What you want to do or not do with cosmetics afterwards is up to you.

    Here I am just advocating for a piece of armor, given as a quest reward to fit the biome you're in.

    Let me give you a different example than the one I already gave earlier:

    At level 10 you can get the "Brigandine chest piece of adventuring". This item, earned in a desert biome would look different than the same item, earned in a jungle biome.
    Same stats, just different look.

    It would reinforce the story behind a player, and incentivize people to travel the world to earn different looking gear.
    Sig-ult-2.png
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Cat Quiver wrote: »
    Doesn't matter how anyone feels about the cash shop, it's there and that's not going to change. But how does transmog go against this? What if a desert node player goes to the cold mountains in their desert gear, untransmogged? Guess we need to get a hot/cold meter in the game. May as well add hunger/thirst too.

    This is why people will tell you this, because most immersion arguments are full of holes themselves and more people care about the actual gameplay, not something or someone they'll see for 5 seconds and never see again.
    I'm not really sure what is meant by something seen for 5 seconds and never again, but...

    "There are climate effects that occur from a buff standpoint. They can also affect skills like, let's say you're using a frost bolt in a winter climate. There's the ability for those effects to be enhanced and/or stronger in those climates."
    – Steven Sharif

    That seems to make it likely that gear will have stats related to biomes.
  • DreohDreoh Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    Asgerr wrote: »
    Dreoh wrote: »
    How about you all take your argument to a thread designed to argue about the store? This is a thread about biome based looks that cannot be bought in the store, so please just let this be what it was supposed to be.

    The argument is directly related to it, and it's not about the store at all.

    Not really. On this thread I am strictly talking about in game earned gear (through quests or drops).

    What you want to do or not do with cosmetics afterwards is up to you.

    Here I am just advocating for a piece of armor, given as a quest reward to fit the biome you're in.

    Let me give you a different example than the one I already gave earlier:

    At level 10 you can get the "Brigandine chest piece of adventuring". This item, earned in a desert biome would look different than the same item, earned in a jungle biome.
    Same stats, just different look.

    It would reinforce the story behind a player, and incentivize people to travel the world to earn different looking gear.

    Right, I'm with you on that, I think that would be amazing and absolutely want that in the game.
    I've brought similar examples up before in other threads using biome-related pets/mounts as examples.

    I just think this gets thrown out the window when you can change the visuals of it at will.
    And while that does get into a slightly broader debate, it's a debate that relates directly to your idea being something worth implementing. It does skirt very close to the cosmetic debates of other threads though you're right about that.

    Edit: To get the thread back on track..
    In another thread a couple weeks ago about "What you'd like to see when you first enter a new town", I said I would love to see the town themed for the area. A snowy-mountain node having NPC's wearing fur coats and stuff. I think that kind of thing would go hand in hand with your idea, as the item visuals could be easily reused for the said NPC's.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    Dreoh wrote: »
    Let's start with a scenario.
    1. You kill a named world boss, who drops a helmet that has an aesthetic clearly derived from the said boss. Everyone who sees it knows where you got the helmet, and thus can see from a glance some of your own story/journey.
    2. You transmog that helmet into a bucket or some crafted-looking transmog.
    3. It no longer has any of that history behind it. It's just a bucket or whatever you turned it in to.
    4. And as such, item visuals lose all inherent value.
    5. You see someone wearing cool armor? You have no idea what armor he's wearing. It could be all common-tier crafted items transmoged with cool-looking visuals.
    6. Base item visuals thus lose all value.
    Maybe I don't want everyone to know where I got that helmet. Maybe I want to obfuscate the history. So, I apply an illusion on the helmet that makes it appear like a bucket. You either have the ability to see through that illusion or you don't.
    It's immersion in either case.
    The helmet doesn't lose any value. The value does precisely what I want it to do. Either, it broadcasts its origins without an illusion or the illusion obfuscates its origins. In either case, it still provides me with the value of the stats.


    Dreoh wrote: »
    I do prefer the mismatched gear, as long as each piece is part of a thematic set, because if that's the case it's most likely that person is slowly working towards a full set of one of those pieces, and I get to see the person in the middle of his journey. I'd rather people with mediocre armor look mediocre, than have everyone always look stylish and amazing.
    If you prefer mis-matched gear, wear mis-matched gear. I am fashion over function, so I prefer sets that match aesthetically over highest stats.
    Both gameplay preferences are supported in Ashes.

    We agree on what constitutes walking.
    We do not agree on what constitutes immersion-breaking.
    Which is why it's helpful for you to explain what you mean by immersion-breaking...because we won't all agree on what that concept entails.
  • DreohDreoh Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The "Illusion magic" excuse is very similar to the "god told me to" excuse people use.

    Regardless, I'm not going to argue this point any more out of respect for Asgerr and you also seem dead set on not thinking critically about this.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    It's similar in a setting where illusion magic and gods actually exist. Yes.
    If we're talking about the world of Verra, gods may very well be telling people to do stuff.
  • Cat QuiverCat Quiver Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dreoh wrote: »

    Show me where I said or implied there is 0% immersion?
    All I ever argue on this forum about cosmetics/transmog is that we should always strive for more immersion so long as it doesn't interfere with the desired gameplay.

    I explained nothing because why do I need to explain something that is so basic? It's like explaining what walking is. We all know what walking is.
    But since you apparently can't see the obvious...

    Let's start with a scenario.
    1. You kill a named world boss, who drops a helmet that has an aesthetic clearly derived from the said boss. Everyone who sees it knows where you got the helmet, and thus can see from a glance some of your own story/journey.
    2. You transmog that helmet into a bucket or some crafted-looking transmog.
    3. It no longer has any of that history behind it. It's just a bucket or whatever you turned it in to.
    4. And as such, item visuals lose all inherent value.
    5. You see someone wearing cool armor? You have no idea what armor he's wearing. It could be all common-tier crafted items transmoged with cool-looking visuals.
    6. Base item visuals thus lose all value.

    You say nothing is stopping anyone from living in the mountains using mountain themed transmogs? You're right.
    But if they were living in the mountains in OP's scenario, they'd look like they lived in the mountains anyways. What's your point here?
    Someone's visiting from the desert? It'd be cool to know he's from the desert as I pass by him.
    If transmog exists, any desert-looking person I see is just a random person with transmog. They aren't "from the desert"

    The problem here is you're confusing aesthetics with immersion. Immersion utilizes aesthetics, but aesthetics doesn't need to utilize immersion.

    And as such yes, I do prefer the mismatched gear, as long as each piece is part of a thematic set, because if that's the case it's most likely that person is slowly working towards a full set of one of those pieces, and I get to see the person in the middle of his journey. I'd rather people with mediocre armor look mediocre, than have everyone always look stylish and amazing.

    Look, I'm going to play the game even if it's not as immersive as I'd like because the mechanics are promising. But ever bit of immersion counts towards a better experience for all. It's the little details that people notice.
    Sure we can't have perfection, but that doesn't mean we can't constantly strive for it.


    In your scenario the player can also advance later on and upgrade into a shit looking bucket helmet and change its appearance to that raid helm with its history as opposed to it getting thrown in the trash because the bucket helmet. If a player is wearing a bunch of different rare transmogged items, they have still earned those items, they still went through the process to get them. Without transmog those items get outdated and are eventually trashed or forever banked, which is when they actually lose all their value as they are no longer used at all.

    I'd have have a bunch of regular looking armor wearers too, but one look at the cash shop and a simple understanding of how much money has gone into that will tell you we will never have anything close to that.

    If transmog didn't exist, chances are no one would go over to x biome to get the zone themed armor in the first place because its not top crafted/dungeon/raid level.

    And I've not confused aesthetics and immersion, but nice try.

    How about you all take your argument to a thread designed to argue about the store? This is a thread about biome based looks that cannot be bought in the store, so please just let this be what it was supposed to be.
    Or try learning context instead? Just because the store is used in an argument does not make it about the store.

  • AsgerrAsgerr Member, Alpha Two
    Cat Quiver wrote: »
    Or try learning context instead? Just because the store is used in an argument does not make it about the store.

    Considering 3/4 of the posts have now been about store bought cosmetics, how about we focus on the in game earnable options I am presenting?
    Sig-ult-2.png
  • McShaveMcShave Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Hmm, we know that armor will have a different look depending on the character's race. I would love to see different biome gear too, maybe with some stats that would be specific to that type of area? Like desert gear having protection from fire or something.
  • DreohDreoh Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    McShave wrote: »
    Hmm, we know that armor will have a different look depending on the character's race. I would love to see different biome gear too, maybe with some stats that would be specific to that type of area? Like desert gear having protection from fire or something.

    Biome specific, race specific gear would be dope

    But that's soooooooo many assets lol

    Though they could automate the process in ways with smart shaders and model attachments.
    Like how dyeing armor works, they could add a fur texture over specific parts of an armor and each racial armor set could have "fur meshes" that they enable/disable depending on if it's flagged for fur or not.
    This would lack the hand-crafted touch though
  • Kivek RhuKhanKivek RhuKhan Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Asgerr wrote: »
    Cat Quiver wrote: »
    Or try learning context instead? Just because the store is used in an argument does not make it about the store.

    Considering 3/4 of the posts have now been about store bought cosmetics, how about we focus on the in game earnable options I am presenting?

    200.gif


    ;)

  • neuroguyneuroguy Member, Alpha Two
    I like this idea, I had a similar one previously (https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/46589/gathering-from-corpses-and-crafting-decorations). The mobs you kill, the materials you gather and the place you craft should logically impact the aesthetic of the outcome. Plus it allows for flavor, character and fun RP possibilities.
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