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What does the community think about XP Debt?

MikasaMikasa Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
in General Discussion
After your Alpha 1 experience, what do you think about the XP Debt?
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Comments

  • Kivek RhuKhanKivek RhuKhan Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
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  • ragonrokragonrok Member, Alpha Two
    I like it
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  • PokeRaptorPokeRaptor Member
    edited May 2021
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  • ItzGhosttItzGhostt Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Love it, the idea behind it is awesome.. The numbers were a lie in Alpha Spot Test, no doubt about it I think I even saw Steven mention it. But I want it to be harsh, but not REROLL my character harsh as I have seen some people state they did. Keep in mind to the people who didn't get to level 5 or higher with a new weapon.. the debt sucked but I overcame it with ease by farming mobs 100x faster than I was at a lower level. I think I reached a 40% debt and overcame it within 15 mins or so. The exaggeration is there because being in debt at lvl 3 by 100% will aboslutely suck and I could see why you may want to reroll. At Higher levels though I felt it wasnt harsh enough. So I am torn on any deicisions made to fix it or change it unless it really wasnt working as intended at all.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It was fine, so far.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Highly pro XP debt. It is in line with the risk vs reward focus of the game.
    I also feel that strong consequences are important in a game with open world PvP.

    Tuning is something that can be done over the next few years. I would once again like to encourage the DEVs to use caution when listening to feedback about death penalty tuning. Just because I worry that most players would not ask to make the game harder.

    I don't want XP debt to be so brutal that no one would want to play the game. I also don't want it to be so forgiving that it might as well not exist. I am sure there are many solutions that strike a fine balance, and I am hopeful that we get there. If we are not already there.
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    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    I like it. It forces me to care dying which I think is a good thing and is lacking from a lot of games.

    It's one of those things that could be tuned. Steven mentioned the exp debt figures were "janked". I had one death that was ~15% and another that was close to 50%.

    Even when I got hit with 50% debt, it didn't take that long to work off.
  • halbarzhalbarz Member
    Does doing quest and gaining XP from them also recover the XP Debt or is only done through killing mobs? :) I am perfectly fine with the feature, just curious :D
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I also liked it
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • Recluse74Recluse74 Member, Alpha Two
    Is it true that XP was given at a higher rate in Alpha 1 so you could level faster? I have seen quite a few people say something along those lines and also that they were killing mobs way above their character level...

    If this is true, the XP debt will be a tad more harsh than what you are experiencing in Alpha 1.
  • Kivek RhuKhanKivek RhuKhan Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    I would say non of the information pertaining to mobs, lvls etc is relevant and will all be changed, people aren't making leveling guides right now they are sorting the server side performance mechanics.

    I'm going to watch the news lots of fun stuff happening on planet earth.

    I like ur black flag rec74
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I am very much in favor of it. It is important, makes the play of the game more serious and real.
  • AndyAndy Member
    It has been a long time since i've ever seen MMORPG with XP debt/loss.

    It's a good choice and make even the leveling part important/dangerous + it add a risk/reward to this part of the game.
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    halbarz wrote: »
    Does doing quest and gaining XP from them also recover the XP Debt or is only done through killing mobs? :) I am perfectly fine with the feature, just curious :D

    Handing in a quest cleared the debt for me, so yes, quest XP counts. :smile:

    Also, I am fine with XP debt. Some tweaking required perhaps, but death should sting a little.
  • BuffyBuffy Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I personally am for Exp. Debt. The only issue I had is that it seemed a bit excessive compared to the time it took to burn off.

    Also, if going red increases your Exp. Debt than I think not fighting back should too. That way it would encourage people to go purple a bit more.
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  • Recluse74Recluse74 Member, Alpha Two
    Kivek RhuKhan wrote: »
    I would say non of the information pertaining to mobs, lvls etc is relevant and will all be changed, people aren't making leveling guides right now they are sorting the server side performance mechanics.

    I'm going to watch the news lots of fun stuff happening on planet earth.

    I like ur black flag rec74

    I see what you are saying. I actually thought the debt was referring to corruption until I watched a video and they discussed XP debt, as I do not think I have played an MMO that has had it before.

    Thanks btw on the Flag ;)
  • JamesSunderlandJamesSunderland Member
    edited May 2021
    I really like exp debt and exp loss systems, those make players truly fear dying and encorages more careful and strategic gameplay aswell as making death more meaningful.
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  • SunboySunboy Member
    What’s the maximum XP-debt one can collect may I ask?
    Much love ❤️
  • umjiumji Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    UMJI THINK GOOD TWO.

    DEBT COLLECTOR CLASS.
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  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The tithe must be collected

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5l1mnXtQGM
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • MikasaMikasa Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    umji wrote: »
    UMJI THINK GOOD TWO.

    DEBT COLLECTOR CLASS.

    ME ALSO LIKE UMJI
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  • Kaizen_StravaKaizen_Strava Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I am of the opinion the Death should have consequences.
    I would like to see some of the following as bullet points in the design of those consequences.
    P.V.E.
    • <Level 10 = no death penalty
    • >Level 10 Carry capacity limits implemented where you lose no items that are not "over" your capacity. This could raise with level gain. This could even be a skill to increase your max allowed capacity.
    • 1st Death = XP debt of about half of it's current level.
    • 1st death = "Resurrection Sickness" de-buff which will significantly increase your XP debt accumulation if you have subsequent deaths with-in a 15(?) minute time frame.
    • Greatly reduced Death penalties if you are rezzed by a party member.
    • Moderately reduced penalties if you wait for the timer to expire before resurrecting.
    • Specific quest chains designed to help reduce XP debt.
    P.V.P.
    • <Level 10 = no death penalty if attacked
    • >Level 10 a portion of your items randomly system selected and "ransomed" to your killer so you can choose to pay the ransom or lose the items
    • 1st Death = XP debt of about half of it's current level if attacked.
    • 1st death = "Resurrection Sickness" de-buff which will significantly increase your XP debt accumulation if you have subsequent deaths with-in a 15(?) minute time frame.
    • If you are attacked and killed by the same player/party while Resurrection Sickness de-buff is active, that player/party gets the XP debt instead of the victim. Not applicable if you are a second try aggressor
    • Greatly reduced Death penalties if you are rezzed by a party member.
    • Moderately reduced penalties if you wait for the timer to expire before resurrecting.
    • Specific quest chains designed to help reduce XP debt.
  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It needs to be tuned but I love the idea. 2-3% exp debt from a pvp death seems fair. 10% for pve would seem fair. Yeah you can grief someone and end up having a mob kill them but who cares.

    Keep it simple with a flat %. No need to clog up the system with special rules or anything silly. Punish someone for dying and make the game harder.

    What would be cool is XP debt removal from certain religions or freeholds. I also believe there should be an xp debt cap. Off the top of my head 25% of your current lvls exp seems nice and punishing.

    What I am curious about is what happens to this exp debt system once you reach lvl 50? No way you could drop down to lvl 49 as this would be insane to implement. It would still make sense if there were endless levels to be gained but this isn't something they want in the game if I remember correctly.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It should be a flat experience debt application where ever applicable. It shouldn't be numeric but it should be a percentage. This is so the death has the same impact regardless of level and this also enables different percentages for PvE and PvP. I would prefer no experience debt in PvP (Sieges) but a reduced experience debt will also be acceptable.
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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Khronus wrote: »
    What I am curious about is what happens to this exp debt system once you reach lvl 50? No way you could drop down to lvl 49 as this would be insane to implement. It would still make sense if there were endless levels to be gained but this isn't something they want in the game if I remember correctly.

    Last I heard you can't de-level from experience debt. I believe the cap is 100% Experience Debt after multiple deaths yet I haven't played the MMO yet.
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  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    Khronus wrote: »
    What I am curious about is what happens to this exp debt system once you reach lvl 50? No way you could drop down to lvl 49 as this would be insane to implement. It would still make sense if there were endless levels to be gained but this isn't something they want in the game if I remember correctly.

    Exp debt is supposed to make you weaker and impact drop chances which is how it will affect you at max level. Wiki: Player Death
  • NaxxazNaxxaz Member
    edited May 2021
    I havent tried the alpha so can't say much, but on behalf of the new-blood i don't see a reason for it, as it clearly would hurt casual/new players more than gritty veterans with many years/MMO's on their resumé.
    So long as it does not become a "git gut" mechanic for new players.

    Other than that, i find it cool!
    AND i think it should have a part to play at end game so it's not just a "slow down leveling" or "anti-risk" mechanic.
    EDIT: It does in fact affect max level.
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  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    mcstackerson wrote: »
    Khronus wrote: »
    What I am curious about is what happens to this exp debt system once you reach lvl 50? No way you could drop down to lvl 49 as this would be insane to implement. It would still make sense if there were endless levels to be gained but this isn't something they want in the game if I remember correctly.

    Exp debt is supposed to make you weaker and impact drop chances which is how it will affect you at max level. Wiki: Player Death

    Oh daaaamn. Yeah I will be pvping and punishing as many people as possible who are not in my node as a citizen haha. I don't want to spawn camp anyone but it was very much possible in the alpha. I am hoping the respawn point can be chosen by the player. Closest 3-5 spawn points would be awesome if the punishment is this harsh.
  • MikasaMikasa Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    Neurath wrote: »
    Khronus wrote: »
    What I am curious about is what happens to this exp debt system once you reach lvl 50? No way you could drop down to lvl 49 as this would be insane to implement. It would still make sense if there were endless levels to be gained but this isn't something they want in the game if I remember correctly.

    Last I heard you can't de-level from experience debt. I believe the cap is 100% Experience Debt after multiple deaths yet I haven't played the MMO yet.

    I saw someone on Shol server this last alpha test had a Experience debt greater than -400%.
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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Okay, well feedback is appreciated. I can't take the number too seriously because the numbers were test numbers and not the numbers we will see in the end. I'm not against having more than 100% Experience Debt but I still believe we don't de-level. Thank you :)
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