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You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Player made relics
Schmuky
Member
So, I was thinking about something that could be fun. Have weapons that achieved firsts be given a title.
NO stat increase! But the weapon that first killed 100 players will have a name. The weapon that killed a certain boss. Maybe the first item of its kind crafted have a description that mention that.
This items will no be more powerful than normal, but they will become trade commodities for collectors. Its the same as IRL. A sword that was used to do something epic is way more valuable than a identical sword that was just crafted or that never saw combat. Hell, you could even have display cases in players homes, I can totally see a max level player having a lvl 5 sword on display because it was the first sword to kill 50 corrupted players.
This will make player items more valuable and unique. Only one sword was first the first.
Also, I would like to see on all items "crafted by X, 1 month ago" or something like that. Imagine a player 3 years after launch getting an item that was crafted in the first week. Maybe even have a history of that item "used by X,Y,Z etc", making them realize that the item has a history and was used in the game way before they even heard of it.
Stuff like this would make the world more immersive, give it history though its common items
I am sure that some players will no care about that stuff. "What does it matter if a sword is 2 years old and was the first that killed a gold dragon?". To those players I say, you are not collectors. And thats fine. But a lot of people i think would be willing to pay more for items that have a history than those that don't.
Opinions?
NO stat increase! But the weapon that first killed 100 players will have a name. The weapon that killed a certain boss. Maybe the first item of its kind crafted have a description that mention that.
This items will no be more powerful than normal, but they will become trade commodities for collectors. Its the same as IRL. A sword that was used to do something epic is way more valuable than a identical sword that was just crafted or that never saw combat. Hell, you could even have display cases in players homes, I can totally see a max level player having a lvl 5 sword on display because it was the first sword to kill 50 corrupted players.
This will make player items more valuable and unique. Only one sword was first the first.
Also, I would like to see on all items "crafted by X, 1 month ago" or something like that. Imagine a player 3 years after launch getting an item that was crafted in the first week. Maybe even have a history of that item "used by X,Y,Z etc", making them realize that the item has a history and was used in the game way before they even heard of it.
Stuff like this would make the world more immersive, give it history though its common items
I am sure that some players will no care about that stuff. "What does it matter if a sword is 2 years old and was the first that killed a gold dragon?". To those players I say, you are not collectors. And thats fine. But a lot of people i think would be willing to pay more for items that have a history than those that don't.
Opinions?
11
Comments
When a node gets destroyed, a unique item can be found by the attackers. Not sure what it could be, maybe a statue or a stone with the node's name, something like that. This item would be a decoration for either another node or a guild house/castle
And another one: When a castle is won over, the attackers can find teared flags of the former guild in the castle. Again to be used as decoration in personal or guild houses
However, I think a work around could be that there are hidden achievements in the game that can create a relic item but players will have to discover it. That way it gives players a chance no matter when you start playing. In Mortal Online for example, there are hidden secrets that players still haven’t discovered even though it’s been out for years.
I think you’re onto something regarding siege trophies. A broken banner of the guild you overthrew would make a great conversation starter in your guild trophy room. It could even have the date of when you won the siege.
Its up to the devs to NOT say what they are. Steven, if you ever read this, just do what George Lucas did with Empire Strikes back. Have it that 2-3 people know what they are
As other examples that come to mind: First pair of boots that walked 1000km. First Weapon that killed one type of every mod (during each expansion). However, i can imagine that most would deal with bosses, but there should be plenty that don't.
I said it discord as well, but imagine the feeling when you see one of your items becoming a relic this way. The insane amount of pride you will feel knowing "I was the first to do this"
And banners can come from guild wars as well. Imagine joining a guild that has 15 different banners in its guild hall. That is a badass guild with insane bragging rights. However, it need to be made in such a way that those banners cannot be stolen. They only go away if the guild disbands. Achievements should not be stolen. Which also makes long-lasting guilds have more prestige and have people actively work for the betterment of their guild
I do think as mentioned by @Kalv1441 that there needs to be a way to maintain this mechanic so new ones can be made over time. I think an easy solution to this is to have time in the game matter (e.g. calendar year). Since we have seasons, perhaps each year can have a new 'the bloody' sword which would retain the value o the original one while new collectors items can be created. This would also create unofficial competitions for players to be the one to create and name such items. The time window for new relics as you call them could also be made variable so some are super rare (once every several in-game years) while others may occur once a season or something. So in the description of the item it would have the year/season post return to Verra to identify when it was named. This would make people turn their taverns/homes into museums and just be flex collectors items for wealthy players.
+1 for sure.
The capture of guild flags for display in victorious wars is a particularly good idea.
Edit: If, in a subsequent war, the defeated guild wins - they should not only get a copy of the loser's flag but also their old flag back.
Another idea would be that high level scribes can view the progress a weapon has for such relic status. So a high level scribe can inspect a sword and see it is 99/100 players killed and also tell that 'the bloody' title has not yet been achieved this season/year/cycle w.e lol.
I personally never liked the idea of the scribe profession because I thought wtf would they even do, so I find it personally amusing that I'm thinking of ways to flesh it out when I was never a fan of the idea to begin with :P.
I would say relics should be one of a kind item. But we can have ...am... artifacts? or some other name for seasonal achievements! So for a weapon to get the "bloody" achievement, it needs to be the weapon that killed most players in a season. The tally is only shown at the end of a season so its kinda like a blind auction. Maybe players can see their tally for the season, but not everyone else. So you enter this period as the season ends with everyone wanting to get their tally up.
Now, in this example, the "bloody" for player kills will make people more likely to PK (obviously). So how to counter a bunch of murder-hobos? Add the "justice" achievement. For most corrupt player kills. Hell, go even further, add the "unjust" achievement for most bounty hunter kills. You get the point.
And similar for PvE.
But relics, should be one of a kind. Not everyone will get a relic, hell not everyone will even see a relic, but their existence will make players want to be the first to explore/kill/craft aka play the game
Another note to keep in mind is that as far as I'm aware, you can't inspect people's gear so having the sword be named will never really be visible to other player's unless it is in a display case, trade window or up for sale at a stall. This means it has little impact on the game unless you are actively trying to flex, collect or profit. Unless they tie some in-game benefit from achieving these items that is.
So long as what @Schmuky suggests herein doesn't involve extra bonuses to stats, this system seems like a neat one that could pair nicely with the Nodes' libraries' records-keeping systems.
But while we pick flowers, other players already fight for the realm. New player have no idea what else is happening in the world 15,20,50 level above them.
That being said, AoC with its node system is trying to fix that. With the map changing and so on. But having tokens of past event will be massive.
Imagine a lvl 1 player, just joined, has no idea about the node system (rare chance, but go with it). So they spawn in the city of Galad. All good. They run around and see a church bell with the mark with "City of Horomos". They look at the map, no such city on the map. So they ask around (or go online) and find out that Horomos was a node next to Galad and it was a metropolis. It was destroyed 6 months before by X Y and Z guild and the only remains in the world in the bell they saw.
Stuff like this makes the events in world feel impactful. When you take down a node, you know that its gonna be talked about for a long time and you made it happen.
Same with the items. I am starting to like the idea of having a notes mark on every item that tells you the previous owners. You get a sword and you see that it was made 2 days ago and the only other person to have it was the crafter. Then you find the same sword with 20 other owners, it was used to kill 5 world bosses and has killed 25 other players. Which one would you use?
I don't really care if someone who starts playing the game 5 years after launch will be bummed that their weapon wouldn't be the first on the server to have attains so many kills, or that their boots weren't the first pair to walk so far. Can't they just get over it? Do we really want the type of players for whom this would be a game-playing deal-breaker?
Not targeting you specifically, @Kalv1441. It just perplexes yours truly that there seems to be the occasional concern expressed for server-first accomplishments and server-records, in regards to people who start light years after players who start at launch.
Isn't it better to have some nearly-meaningless rewards for long-time players, as opposed to purposefully *NOT* having them, for fear that someone who starts far later might resent not being able to become a record-holder or attain a server-first?
Given the game will have seasons - aging, aging effects and death from aging are things that are kind of cool for a long term campaign. However, for an MMORPG aging isn’t part of the game because it’s a 24-hour, accelerated time environment that some players would not enjoy losing large chunks of time of viable character play when they are not in game. For a tabletop RPG, time pauses in between sessions or jumps in the fashion a GM desires it.
But should time pass and be more than just an aesthetic, having items that recall previous characters would be interesting and rather unique to the genre. Would make Bards more meaningful and the in game books, stories and songs more interesting.
Now for seasonal achievements... Something like Triumph items, as this is more of a regular competition rather than a one time epic achievement.
One thing though, the implementation needs to keep in mind "cheating". For the walking one, it needs to count distance traveled rather than just distance walked. The difference actually matters, for distance walked, you can just get a macro and run head first into a wall . Or hell,even just put a weight on the W and run head first into a wall for 30 days. it need to measure how much of the map was traversed.
I agree that the Legacy Items should not really care about people that might join years after a server started, but if they are hidden, you never know when one might put up. This depends on how many they would put in. Again, the obvious ones will most likely be done quick, but the not-so-obviuos ones..might be years until someone does that exact thing, as it could be as detailed as the devs want: "Spend 24 continuous in-game hours without being on land" -> so either in water or on a ship or something. The only way something like this gets done is by accident.
About aging, no, just no. There is no fun element in seeing your character age and die due to natural causes. I know that there was a game that did it (Life is Feudal?), but what it ensures is that players only play for a very limited time, and they are aware that their in-game time limited. Due to how the seasons work in game (1 season per week) each character would age 13 years each IRL year. Orcs are considered old at 23 (in DnD) so 2 years after launch, anyone that did orc can say bye bye. Elves life for hundreds of years. See the problem?
And tbh, I am not sure it was fun even in Life is Feudal, as that game never got to be that popular. Haven't played so don't know for sure.
About bards... I am unsure if the bards can create songs in-game. I mean, the players can, but i doubt bards themself can do it. I see this being tied in with the Scribe profession more than anything,
Someone brought up seasons. I think that could be the answer. It lets the players from day one get a title like Season 1 attached to the relic. It gives the older players a sense of legacy while still giving new players a sense of accomplishment
What i said about season weapons... that's extra to the first time/server and server records. The weapon that got 100 kills 2 weeks after launch is way more impressive that the weapon that got 100 kills 5 years 3 months and 1 week after launch. Seasonal achievements should not overshadow the record of being the first.
The idea of having the bell from a destroyed metropolis survive for example is cool and people have suggested similar things like having 'ruins' of destroyed nodes exist for a while/permanently until built upon again sort of thing which I'm a fan of but would require a whole set of new assets (burnt/destroyed version of already existing buildings/structures).
So about the server first items.... I actually think those are the most important ones of the bunch. And the reason is, they don't matter. Flying mounts, legendary items matter. They give an advantage. Server first items only give bragging rights, because they should not have any sort of bonus stat.
They will become trading commodities. Think about it, how much would you be willing to pay for a level 10 sword that was the first to kill 100 players? Personally, i have no idea, but way more than the same lvl 10 sword just forged. Having items like this will let players directly make history.
Again, i am only talking about a note on the weapon. I don't think it should have any visual effect or anything like that. Don't know much about developing a game, but i can't imagine it would take that much dev time to do something like this.
Now the seasonal items...its a bit weird. If we say a season would last 1 month (to go together with the mayor system), then as time passes they become less and less valuable as more of them appear in the game. Not only that, but it will force players that want those items to never swap their equipment, as it would be item specific. And in 30 days of play, I would hope i get better gear. So we would end up in a situation where only max level characters have a chance at making those monthly records. Imagine one of the monthly records being PvE kills. If a lvl 20 start doing it, and does well, how long before they are level 30 (from all the killing of mobs they did) and forced to fight level 30 mobs with a lvl 20 sword. Or they would end up spamming lvl 1 zones to get kills, kinda ruining the experience for new players, as all low level zones will be used by high level characters.
I am not sure that this system is worth it, very hard to balance, especially on a monthly basis and again, the more months pass, the less valuable each weapon is as there are more of them in the world.
Now the node ruins..having something in the place of a destroyed node makes no sense in my mind. From what i understand of nodes, if one is max level, the nodes around it cannot get max level, but they can get max level -1. So, if a node is destroyed, then a adjacent node would be able to get max level. However, the destroyed node can get back to max level -1. No?
If you had a metropolis somewhere, its bc people liked to play there. Even if the nodes gets destroyed, people will start rebuilding instantly. So ruins in the place? I mean you could have something depending on its size, but its not really that important.
I would say items from the fight that destroyed the node is more valuable. Make it permanent and tradable. A bell can be traded between nodes, via caravan (and it can be stolen, and then we will wander "Who even steals a massive bell?")
Guild banners from both castle fights and guild wars are honestly almost mandatory. Being able to show off your guild achievements with a wall in your guild hall filled with enemy guild banners is insane amounts of bragging rights.
However! I don't think that those flags should be reclaimable. It is just decoration in the end and taking it away cheapens the first win. They should not be lootable. It also makes each war more important as you can't just steal back your flag if you lose the fight.
The first concept are the environmental seasons Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter, which will change frequently over the course of X many days. That means a year game time is 4X days. Going old school, many military and exploratory campaigns would cover a campaign season representing the portions of the year where such activities could occur and then there would be down time until the next campaign season. Things like “wintering” where an army would camp for the winter. Historically the size and momentum of an army would decrease as the peasants returned home for the harvest.
The second concept is your good old RPG Season, typically broken out annually in real time, although technically it could be any given time. Many games have had story lines for a season that may include cosmetic items, added features and quests, and more tangible rewards. If you’ve played Pathfinder organized play, each year opens a new season where all of the scenarios released that year take place in a given timeline in the campaign, usually the campaign year. But as its game time moves faster, AoC might cover multiple in game years or just not track time that strictly. In other words there would be no calendar aligned with the day-night cycles in game. Although it’s still early and I haven’t heard what their plans are for that. So will we really have a history on this happened in year X and that happened in year Y, or is it all a matter of how they choose to scale time?
And we probably should exclude the concepts of DLCs and season passes, which are just attempts to grab more cash from players and maybe provide something, or not, as new content. Some developers just re-skin or repurpose the same crap and call it new content. Believe that’s something Steven wants to stay away from.
The key take away is how players interact with the seasons, both in terms of calendar and in terms of campaign, beyond just node development. Who records what happened when? Who creates the items that end up having a legacy or perhaps even a curse? Do we have in game museums or do players have collections within their homes? Perhaps items than can be stolen or recovered?
I don't really follow the logic of why they'd be better or worse than flying mounts or legendary items just because they provide no advantage. They are just as rare, well actually rarer since only 1 set would ever exist (and could be hoarded by someone or even just left in a bank of a player who quits) while legendary items will get destroyed and re-made and mounts cycle between players.
Not really. These items would reflect history. How could you make history with a lvl20 sword like you say? A legendary item or flying mount have much more potential to influence the server and 'make history'.
When I said season, I was referring to the seasons of the year and was just saying some arbitrary amount of time which can be variable for different accomplishments. I don't think these items would lose value if they are labelled with the time in which they were named though. Even if there are 100 named swords for killing 100 players, the one labelled for the year 0 after we re-entered Verra would still be one of a kind since as you say these items only have collector's value that is arbitrarily established anyways. And yeah, players play with self-imposed rules for fun all the time like iron-man mode etc. Popular game modes like speed running and solo self found in other genres were self imposed originally. If players want to name an item a particular way, they need to adjust their playstyle as such. I guess your argument here is that they would not be occurring by unknown happenstance? But that feels cheaper imo since you just randomly happened to do something instead of actually striving to do it and out-competing others with the same goal. Isn't it better to set a goal and achieve it than to be handed a random shiny (flavor item with no benefit sure but still a uniquely one of a kind item) just you happened to do some random stuff without meaning to?
That does sound terrible, so they can just not have a weapon named for shit that will be disruptive to others in a negative way. This is an instance of, well if they don't create the problem for themselves to begin with, we don't have to worry about a solution now do we? On the other hand though if you have only 1 iteration of these events that name weapons/items, all you are doing is rewarding players who jump on the game at the start.
Adding a single 'note' to a weapon manually is trivial but the infrastructure to have it happen automatically is not (I don't know how much work it would take in terms of man hours but in any case). You need to have the capacity and space for a 'note' which is not a stat or item description and is independent of said labels. You need a way to track each weapon's progress towards being named for one purpose or another and all the logic that entails. To have this, just for a handful of flavor items that with your own admission have no inherent value or benefit for players seems unreasonable. On the other hand, if such a system was for a recurring mechanic that generated up to 100s of said items throughout the game's lifespan, I think that's more worthwhile.
There would be no balancing required for these items because they are for flavor and have collector's value only. The time span of their occurrence can be as long or short as people/IS want, doesn't need to be a literal month or in-game season. And again, they'd lose no value since they would be marked for the time they occurred (so you'd still be able to identify the server's very first one).
In principle it can get back to max level -1 but highly unlikely. If it is a high level node, like a metro, as you say adjacent nodes can only be -1 level and nodes adjacent to them another -1. Given that it takes months to level up to a metro it is safe to assume the surrounding nodes will also be highly developed (as highly as they can be). Which means that for a destroyed metro to get to city level, it would require the node to accomplish this from lvl 0 (which takes months) before any neighboring node goes from town to city which is incredibly unlikely. In fact, I'd assume that if a metro is destroyed there is almost no chance it would get beyond level 2 (and I think that would be good game design tbh). This is especially true because the higher level the node, the more things there are to do and therefore more xp is generated. A lvl 0 node will not have high lvl mobs and have little to do for most players (in terms of xp/progress) meaning even if people liked to play there, the reasons they liked to play there would likely be gone. Now this node can eventually become a metro again through sieges and out competing neighbors but in the meanwhile, if there was some ruin of the metro, there is definitely an appeal for that. It would be direct evidence of the server's history.
Yeah I absolutely love these ideas but because they are much more similar to the recurring 'seasonal' items than the once a server idea. Metros & cities will get destroyed, so more relics of said nodes will be created, guild wars are recurring so banners will continue to be generated. Now if it was more similar the idea you like, there would only be a relic from the first metro destroyed or banners for the very first castle siege (not saying this is what you're proposing, I'm saying the nature of your ideas play out like this if applied to other things).
I find a lot of ideas that involve 'one of a kind' type of items are very short sighted and tend to reward only players who play the game early. If they are a reward for some advertised event, that's a bit different. For a whole new system to be added to the game though, it needs to benefit and engage people more than just the first month post-launch. Having a shiny item (flavor item or otherwise) a year post launch is just a flex and nothing more. Having a soft-competitive system where people can generate and collect flavor items however can be engaged with by many more players in a meaningful way for much longer. Just my thoughts.
You're gonna end up with crappy weapons getting prestigious titles, only to be replaced as soon as you level up, as you'll get a better one.
And title for your weapon doesn't kill dragons faster than a better weapon.
You mean a weapon that no one would want to use, any longer.... like a trophy?
That actually sounds quite reasonable.
hmm..not really "better" but rather they have different value. A flying mount lets you move faster (maybe) and gives you battle advantages. Legendary weapons i expect to have legendary stats. Those type of items have no stat or mechanic value, but they have historical value. They are trophies and like in real life, for some people they will have no value, while for other they might be worth more than a legendary.
To be clear, seasonal items can work and can work well. But the server first will still be above them. I think both should be in. Have the server first as legacy items that can't be replicated float around in the market as trophies and have a monthly (or whatever time period) competitions for seasonal items. Both can have a place in the game as they aren't mutually exclusive.
Yea, agree. However, the more i think about it, the more it seems there will be ways for the system to be abused. I gave the example with PvE kills. Another one I said was distance walked (put some weight on W and run head first into a wall) and i am sure we can come up with other cheats. Its a pretty basic system, but it needs to have extremely well designed achievements.
Again, both system can exist at the same time
This will depend on the exact mechanic, so yea, you could be right. But I also think that some players will stay in the same spot out of spite:))) to grow it back. To make it great again (pun definitely intended)
Right, considering you said the same thing 3 times, i think i need to clarify. Server first items should be unique and outside of the season items contest. Example:
Server first: first weapon to kill 100 players
Seasonal item: Weapon that killed most players in the allotted time
The difference is the that the seasonal can have 500 kills to its name. But the first weapon to kill 100 is still being valued.
Seasonal and server first shouldn't compete. They result in similar items, but their purpose is different. Server first are for sure something for early players, no one can contest that. But i think thats fine tbh. Having systems that benefit (with no stat boost) early players is fine. Everything else can be played by everyone. A few things shouldn't
Seasonal items will play a larger role most likely as they will still be valuable. Having a weapon that has been crowned the best in a category will be something people can strive to achieve or get their hands on. For example, i won't be super involved in PvP, but if this system gets implemented, i will go out of my way to get at least a seasonal item for PvP, as a trophy.
yes.....that....that is the point...*confused*....glad you agree?
As for relics (or equivalent name)- yes yes yes yes yes. I love collecting physical trophies which I can place in personal housing. Whether its for a PvE scenario or Node event - I really like all the suggestions!
What does everyone thing about this, what 2-3 months later?