"theme-box" and early player direction+goals

I watched a handful of the alpha 1 reactions/opinions of people who participated and most of it was as expected and things that will obviously go through iterations and improve as design moves forward. The one 'criticism' that came up sometimes that caught me off guard though was 'a lack of direction early on, and not knowing what to do'. Now this was surprising to me because I follow the game fairly closely and have a good idea of what is available, what I'm interesting in and would want to engage with but I do recognize that many players will try the game because of the general hype around it and may not be knowledgable on how the game works, or have any real experience outside of theme park games. I was wondering what would be a good way for the game to provide players with some initial goal to send them on their journey.

Personally, I think thematically it would make sense that post-tutorial you are told by some NPC that in order to prevent history from repeating itself and effectively deal with corruption on Vera, that different groups are being commissioned to look into the old civilization. Players will then be able to choose if they want to A) investigate past military tactics and strategies to learn from B.) investigate the scientific advancement of the old civilizations C) research the divine scriptures that may provide insight into how to deal with the corruption and D) research the crafting expertise and economic structures that allowed the old civilizations to prosper in the first place. Based on the said choice, this would then lead the player to some ruins close to the highest level nearby node of the respective type (military, scientific, divine and economic respectively) at which point the player can find social support like players to engage in the mentor program with, quests to do, see the dynamic events (PvP and PvE) and have a chance to participate.

I think this serves a few purposes: it spreads players out from the starting area, it points players (geographically) to a node where their interests are best supported and like-minded players will be abundant. It puts new players in high population areas where events like sieges, world boss invasions etc are more likely to occur giving them a good taste for what the game can offer. After seeing what the game has to offer, they will realize the disadvantage of being involved in a node they are not a citizen of (or be pushed out to explore lands with more property available for building their freehold) and will then be more likely to branch out geographically and have hopefully a guild or friends to go on the journey together with. I don't think they should be pointed to a low level node because A) the population density will be low making it harder to make new connections and B.) after the first few months of the game, ~most low level nodes will be locked out of growth by larger neighboring ones (or so I assume) which requires sieges to change and not necessarily new player friendly.

Edit: Seems like there already is a system that I would think sufficient to give direction/goals to. new players and send them on their way... not sure what the complaints I heard are about then. Oh well.

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bloodprophet

I think one of the big misconceptions form the recent testing is people got confused.
The testing at this point is all for basic day one systems. If I click an ability does it work? This is what they are after at this point.
A lot of the testers lost this perspective and wondered off into content and aesthetics. Comments on the UI for example even though it has been stated several times some of this stuff(like the UI) is basic place holder stuff.

A lot of the direction and building stuff we have not seen yet. Looking forward to it.

Dygz

Mmmn. The problem is that it's an Alpha preview and the focus of the test was on logins, networking optimization, server populations, and both Adventurer progression and Node progression. The latter two were sped up so we could quickly move through progression.

So it's mostly an issue of having only bare bones systems, features and mechanics in place. We had a few quests but finding the locations for some could be challenging - even finding the quest givers could be challenging. The map and mini-map could use quite a bit of work (Alpha).
There were small pockets of places to harvest, but you had to stumble upon them. There was a quest for redwood trees, I think, but lots of people couldn't figure out where the redwood trees were.

RocketFarmer

I get the impression that the intent is not to lead you by the nose. You are essentially brought into the world to explore and make your mark. Different players will have different motivations. Those who are completely lost could ask someone, but just as in real life asking strangers for information isn’t always beneficial.

I think it would be cool to have PC quest givers as optional quests. Both for the new PC and the quest giver. That arrangement earlier in the game would help foster more interactive game play from players who may traditionally have tried to avoid player to player interaction while focusing almost solely on hopping from one NPC quest giver to the next.

Keeping with that theme, suppose a certain percentage of NPC quest givers do not have the PC’s best intentions in mind and may instead try to cheat the PC. Whereas most PC given quests would be on the up-and-up.

Example, Bard PCs could have quests they could give associated with certain stories or songs they pick up. By sharing these quests, the Bard earns a percentage of the experience earned from those who complete such quests. You could even have a selection of rewards for the Bard to pick that the players could turn in to the Bard in exchange for their own rewards. That would reinforce interaction before and after the quest.

The Bard would then seek out more potential stories and songs to distribute. Networking with other Bards would have greater benefits, although networking with too many may be counterproductive.

Similar PC given quests could apply to any number of classes, groups or organizations.

Guild quests should be a thing with guild leadership selecting options/goals for the guild to pursue that comes with an entire tree of quests to give and accept. The initial goal might be recruitment. Later on it might be access to a cool mount or a unique skill. And so on.

This is definitely one way to counter the node growth situation. However, as nodes progress it also likely means more quests available. But ultimately I think you would want quests to feel fresh, new and directed more specifically for your character. There are lots of ways to accomplish that beyond the vanilla NPC quest giver.

neuroguy

I get that the testing scope did not include this, that was just what prompted the question: What would be a good way to get players that may not be very knowledgable about the game and all of its systems started post-tutorial? Many people don't have experience with sandbox style games and would look for "zone levels" or clear goals for some direction to progress, what would be a good way to give them that goal and direction without being heavy handed?

bloodprophet

That's a great question.
Given to many choices some people get confused and lock up not sure what to do next and afraid to make a choice in case they are wrong.
How to direct them with out holding their hands is a very good question. I don't have an answer.
Often times I feel like the Joker. I don't have a plan I just.....do.

Nagash

I mean the voices in my head tell me what to do is that not what everyone else does?

bloodprophet

Nagash wrote: »

I mean the voices in my head tell me what to do is that not what everyone else does?

Sometimes.
Suing this last test weekend there were a couple times even with the death penalty I was all I don't know if I can do this or not and rolled the dice.
50/50 so far

Vhaeyne

One of the first quests you tells you to go seek out some nodes and marks them on your map. Then you get to those nodes and start leveling them or accept some quests depending on the state of the node. The node quests take you near the surrounding dungeons and landmarks. The game currently feels very hand holding for my tastes.

Anytime you see something you want to own or fight, you find a goal. To me quests are just unnecessary hand holding that removes the requirement that you solve the puzzle yourself of how to get the things you want. I am not saying Ashes should not have quests. Obviously, that is a stated feature that will be in the game.

I am just saying the over reliance on quests to give people "Direction" in MMORPGs is disappointing to me. Every time I have to accept a quest it feels like I am accepting "help" that I don't want, to do a task I preferred not to do. Unfortunately, many games make the rewards so high for doing quests and the so low for grinding that you are punished if you try not to do quests.

I have done all the quests on one of my characters over the weekend. Just to look for bugs. Today I leveled a character doing virtually no quests and just grinding. I did surpass my old character in just a few hours of heavy grinding today. Which is the exact feeling I am looking for in an MMORPG. To be clear, if we must have quests I want grinding and questing to be equally viable to progress. I prefer to make my direction as I did today.

Personally, they could take all the quests out of the game, and it would be fine with just the node system. If my tone sounds negative in this post, I apologize. I am genuinely confused by people saying the game does not give them direction. I was a new player this weekend when I did all the quests and I did not have a problem. Even with the jank! XD

neuroguy

@Vhaeyne Oh that's very interesting, so there already is a quest chain early on that takes you to some nodes and gets you to accept their quests etc? Then I'm so confused as to what more 'direction' you'd need...

Vhaeyne

neuroguy wrote: »

@Vhaeyne Oh that's very interesting, so there already is a quest chain early on that takes you to some nodes and gets you to accept their quests etc? Then I'm so confused as to what more 'direction' you'd need...

Yes, one of the very first quests tells you to scout three nearby nodes. Arriving at the nodes will be two possible things. A flat plane that is a stage zero wilderness node with a bunch of mobs or a node stage 1-3. If the node is staged it has quests. If not, you know that killing mobs will cause an expedition to show up and bring quests. You have to be very, very fast to see one of these three nodes as a wilderness node because it is the first thing everyone is doing. The nodes sell mounts and that is the first thing everyone wants. The nodes further into the map take a while to develop but work the same.

Personally, I was really excited to see the flat plane wilderness node. Because it meant that I could be the one to pop it with a little elbow grease.

maouw

Can I suggest a better option than giving a starting quest?

Expose new players to imminent threat, prompting them to actively find resources, or allies at a node etc. to protect themselves.
It's a more exciting first experience compared to "hi, welcome to game, here's a quest" <--- gives the wrong impression of what AoC wants to be.

Zeshio

I agree with most of the other commenters on this thread, but I certainly believe the devs are planning for something like this already. Folks will need some basic help and then have mechanics that encourage them to wonder off.

Zeshio

maouw wrote: »

Can I suggest a better option than giving a starting quest?

Expose new players to imminent threat, prompting them to actively find resources, or allies at a node etc. to protect themselves.
It's a more exciting first experience compared to "hi, welcome to game, here's a quest" <--- gives the wrong impression of what AoC wants to be.

Sounds very much like a regional/proximity triggered quest, and I agree having things that encourage action right away are a good way to mix things up. Show don't tell!

McShave

You know what would help with early game directions? Proximity voice chat. just ask people around the starting area what to do and eventually you will get someone who will show you the ropes.

bloodprophet

1 in a 100 would be helpful in proximity chat. Especially near the starting point. Guaranteed there will be jerk running around blaring "music" or some other such thing so nobody could hear anything and people would then shut it off.

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