This Game IS Ready to be Viewed by the Public

I hope everyone is having a fantastic Friday! I had the pleasure of playing the Alpha this Thursday for the first time, and while it was not a perfect experience by any means, I found it to be a very good experience overall. First off, I wanted to reiterate that this is a "testing" alpha, and not a "playing" or "early-access" alpha release. I feel that is an important distinction to make, as I have heard many people use the example of other games launching early-access release games and never working on them again as a reason for Ashes to keep the NDA in effect. The NDA being in place, or removed has nothing to do with releasing this game. If the NDA is lifted, all this means is that we are able to share video of the product throughout the development process. This means that there will not be as many secrets from their most important investors (us). Yes, this also means that this game will be shown to the world in it's current alpha form. It also means that many very large content creators will have the ability to play and stream this game to their thousands, and in some cases, tens of thousands of viewers. Many of these viewers know precisely what an alpha is and the purpose and importance of it to the development process. There are also many that will be ignorant to this and judge the game harshly in its current state. I have read many examples of people fearing that this will harm the game and could even lead to it's downfall overtime. I have not seen or heard of any data that can really serve to back up this speculation but to say, this game has been in it's alpha 1 process for a week now and I have not seen any overwhelmingly negative feedback from the MMO Gaming Industry, or even any overwhelmingly bad feedback from the testers themselves. The general consensus seems to be that the alpha is fun, they are pleased with the process, systems are working well overall, but the game has many years of development to go. This sounds par for the course of an MMORPG in it's Alpha 1 state. If this game does receive tons of negative feedback from those only judging by sight and little knowledge, chances are those people will still be following the same content creators in another year or two when they are singing the games praises and will gladly fork over their hard earned (or parents) money to be a part of the active community.

Removing the NDA in this state of development is almost unheard of in the industry. It takes a lot of faith in your community, and confidence in the product you are creating for those who support you. Removal of the NDA is more for them, then the thousands of new faces that know nothing of the game. It shows that you have nothing to hide and are open and excited to share the ongoing development process with the community. This is something that we as MMORPG enthusiast's should be championing. You also must remember that the NDA was supposed to be lifted multiple times by now and kept getting pushed. Maybe there is good reason for this every time that happened. I will say that Marcus Cicero called indecision "the thief of opportunity". He said "more is lost by indecision than wrong decision". I originally heard this quote from an old manager but never believed him smart enough for him to make that up himself. Just googled it and Cicero said this over 2000 years ago. Seems pretty fitting if you ask me. Maybe just cheer Steven on as he "rips off the bandaid" so we can all move forward into a more informed future with Ashes of Creation and without the NDA.

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neuroguy

I was also thinking recently that even if some people get disappointed with the alpha state not understanding what a real alpha is, tempering the hype is not such a bad idea when we are this far from release. I know when I first heard about this game, I got so hyped that I burnt myself out on consuming any and all information/content about it. I know I'm in the minority by doing that but I do think that a lot of people will have unrealistically high expectations of this game based on the hype already... cooling them down and being able to demonstrate the progress that the game's development will have from now to release will allow for appropriate hype to build closer to release. I understand that first impressions matter, but I mean it is at the very least a full year away (which is a crazy long time for people's attention and memory to keep up with).

That being said, this is a pointless conversation really when we are just another ~1.5 months from the non NDA alpha1 preview. We can hold off a few more weeks.

Dreoh

neuroguy wrote: »

I was also thinking recently that even if some people get disappointed with the alpha state not understanding what a real alpha is, tempering the hype is not such a bad idea when we are this far from release. I know when I first heard about this game, I got so hyped that I burnt myself out on consuming any and all information/content about it. I know I'm in the minority by doing that but I do think that a lot of people will have unrealistically high expectations of this game based on the hype already... cooling them down and being able to demonstrate the progress that the game's development will have from now to release will allow for appropriate hype to build closer to release. I understand that first impressions matter, but I mean it is at the very least a full year away (which is a crazy long time for people's attention and memory to keep up with).

That being said, this is a pointless conversation really when we are just another ~1.5 months from the non NDA alpha1 preview. We can hold off a few more weeks.

That's a good point

Hype sells, but too much hype kills.

Box cost games can ignore the latter, but subscription games can't.

Cyberpunk and NMS made bank on hype, but the level of hype also killed them. (disregarding NMS's current success)
Outside of refunds, they already got the revenue they wanted and wouldn't have to worry about the dying hype. (Though HelloGames went on to prove that they weren't there for the quick cash grab)

AoC has no box cost. It's success is based on retention, so tempering the hype to moderate levels will prevent the scenario where the majority has an inflated idea of what the game is and thus becomes disappointed and thus quits.

Nerror

Yeah I've thought about the good that comes from tempering the hype as well. Intrepid knows more than we do about the state of the game, so if they feel that July 9th is a better date than now, then that's fine, but I don't think they should seriously fear a huge, lasting backlash to occur once the masses see the game.

There is no doubt in my mind that there will be some, because the haters will 100% seize the opportunity to point whatever flaw they see out and call the game dead and vaporware. But they already do that.

IS is taking a bit of a gamble on how the big streamers present the current state of the game, but I think they are in good hands with Asmongold, for example. He's pretty levelheaded when it comes to this, and understands what a developmental alpha is.

Once the NDA is dropped, the hype will likely be tempered for many, but they have at least a couple of years to get a more realistically excited playerbase up and running again, as they see the game develop from the barebones content we have now, to even greater graphics and tons more content. Whatever happens, the game will not suffer from overhyping.But it also puts pressure on IS to keep delivering improvements of course.

Dreoh wrote: »

Cyberpunk and NMS made bank on hype, but the level of hype also killed them. (disregarding NMS's current success)

Cyberpunk is still a hugely successful game, even if they took a big hit due to overhyping. It recently got back in the top 10 global sellers on Steam. It's not just NMS

My point is just that many people will come back as soon as they hear the game they thought was bad turns out to be good.

Vhaeyne

@hiro

Cicero also said:

No one can give you advice wiser than yourself. If you listen to yourself you can never go wrong.

The point is that Steven has been very cautious about showing Ashes to the public. If you watch the live streams he states multiple times before showing anything that this is all alpha. Since Steven is in charge of Ashes it stands to reason that he is advising himself on if he thinks Ashes is ready. This is a case where I truly believe that he is not ready for the world to have unfiltered access to Ashes yet.

To me, Steven lifting the verbal NDA came off as a compromise between his judgment and what the community wants. I think we should be thankful for the verbal lift on the NDA we did get. The level of caution Steven is showing tells me that this is something he truly cares about and does not want to get wrong.

Of course this is all just my speculation based on the actions I can see. I am hopeful for a NDA lift in the future, but I want to avoid pressuring Steven into such an important decision if it goes against his judgment.

hiro

Nerror wrote: »

Cyberpunk is still a hugely successful game, even if they took a big hit due to overhyping. It recently got back in the top 10 global sellers on Steam. It's not just NMS

Hype and Overhype did not kill scuff the release of Cyberpunk. A buggy unfinished and unready product did. No one knew this was the state the game was in because no one could see it. If they did, that would have calmed hype. What scuffed release was the release of a bad product. Hype had nothing to do with it. Had the game been released polished, but with nothing more added, just a polished version of the release, it would have been lit. People would have cheered it along.

Songcaller

If you use Google Trends you'd notice the massive spike around release and then the minimal attention to date. The flop was massive but it is a single player game. (Cyberpunk)

Ashes is in a minimal state on Google Trends but there was a blip around Lazy Peon's Video. I don't expect more hype in the general public until the NDA Lifts or maybe not before the game launches. Google Trends is a useful tool to gauge the public awareness/hype level.

Edit: Added confirmation.

Dygz

I think the game is not ready for what Steven wants to show for Alpha.
2 weeks ago, I was assuming that last weekend’s test would still be under NDA based on the state of the game. I was surprised when I was reminded the NDA was supposed to be lifted and then not surprised when lifting the NDA was pushed back.
Also not surprised to have Alpha One delayed again.

I have been told many times that if you can play it, you can critique it like it’s full launch - especially if you pay to play it.
When I say it’s early access, they again say if you can pay to play it, you can critique it like a full launch.

And, yeah, you probably don’t want to have streamers showing their struggles with bugs in your Alpha the same weekend they might also be streaming the launches of TBC and ESO.

Marcet

The first impression is the most important, that is what will stay in people's mind, all the little imperfections will be hyperbolized and memed on, and it doesn't matter if you carefully explain that this is an Alpha to "test main systems".

Can we just go back to the time when games released to the public when they were finished???
Not an Alpha with 300.000 viewers on twitch the first day, and when the game releases nobody plays. I detest that attitude of wanting a game before it's ready and finished just because you want a little taste, it's not well done but you can't wait and prefer to eat it raw and saggy.

Steven is the main investor, not us.

And this goes hand to hand with paying a 500$ Alpha and forgetting that you are PAYING TO WORK.

Nerror

hiro wrote: »

Hype had nothing to do with it.

That's simply not true. Like, at all. Yeah the bugs were obviously a factor, but the overhype was too for sure. CDPR share some of the blame for the overhype. I wasn't really following the game, and thus went in with zero expectations and I had an absolute blast for over 300 hours. When I read about all the stuff people were complaining about, it was definitely not just the bugs, but how the game content was lacking etc.
The PC version was buggy, but not game-breaking at all. I played through all missions and side-missions, and all endings. Twice. I only had one instance where I did something requiring me to reload a save to complete the mission, because I didn't do as the mission said. The PS4 people had it rough, and I fully understand their anger. The game should never have been released for PS4. That's on CDPR for sure.

Going back to Ashes, having such a transparent development could definitely come back to bite IS in the ass. I have never seen a game project on this scale be this open this early. There are clearly upsides to it, and either way, the cat is already kinda out of the bag. I don't think Steven will keep postponing the visual NDA until release. Time will tell, and all that...

Marcet

@Nerror

Exactly. Hype is bad. Expectations are bad.

If they tell you something is amazing, you'll always critique everything in it, because expectations can't be met.

If they tell you nothing about it you'll always find the good things it has by yourself.

Khronus

I disagree. The game has nothing to offer once you reach a certain stage (like....4-5 hours into it you can complete the alpha). It is not ready to be shown to the general public. Just have patience and let them do their thing. So far they seem to have created a pretty amazing core system.

I fail to realize how the potential for massively negative reviews during the alpha will have a benefit in the short or long term. We have people in this community who feel that another players cosmetic choice will ruin their immersion while fighting dragons and riding around on skeleton horses. I don't trust the community to keep it positive at all haha.

Mahes

I think the hype will temper itself down because of the length of time remaining before this game is even in Beta. This game is just to far out still for the majority of players to get as excited as perhaps we are. Most players who have played the game are thinking late 2022-2023 for Beta with a late 2023-2024 for release. A casual on the fence kind of player will care very little about this game this far out.

It is a coin toss as to whether or not releasing the NDA is a good or bad thing at this stage. It is good if they are able to show good progress and the ability to work all the bugs out that have been reported. It can be a bad thing if players see an incompetent company unable to make a descent amount of progress in a timely manner or leave bugs in the game that have been reported numerous times. I presume the delay for the NDA had pretty much everything to do with the rubberbanding that they are attempting to nail down at this stage. It is one thing to have a buggy game. It is another to not even be able to play the buggy game.

I am hoping Intrepid has a lot in the back ground that they are choosing not to show because they want to get the server issue under control. It would explain why they might feel pretty confident about releasing the full NDA when they are choosing to do so. We shall see in due time.

P.S>--- if those release dates are set to far off, I am happy to be wrong.

GrinningJack

Greetings my fellow nerds,

saying the game is ready for the public eye is a bias statement to make, especially as a content creator. The only person that would really benefit from the NDA being released at this point, would be a content creator with Alpha 1 Access.

Steven understands that releasing the NDA means allowing none Intrepid staff to present the product in this case Ashes of Creation to the general public. Which for the most part will take what they see at face value, meaning that you only get 1 chance to present your game, even if it is still in development to the public. You can scream, yell and draw that it is still in Alpha in the sky, but people will still judge it based on what they see. At the current state, with the rubberbanding Issue and so many others the game is not in a good state to be released to the public.

Steven wants to prove that Intrepid is different, does not hide anything, and follows a somewhat transparent development plan. I would be ok for them to push back the NDA release 5 more times, just so we can be sure the game, the message and all the Information is on point.

Fathym

In my personal opinion, releasing the nda will be fine as long as they get the vast majority of the rubberbanding and server issues ironed out. Playing a buggy mess of an Alpha can actually be quite an entertaining experience for streamers and viewers but if the streamers cant physically move their character in game, it makes for a very poor streaming experience and, consequently, creates very poor optics for the game.

mfckingjoker

Intrepid has a chance of showing their product to the world. They can't compete with the beasts out there (who "happen" to release projects/expansions at the same time), at least not atm since it's in pre-alpha state and there are core features (rubberbanding, fps drops, latency) that need to work at least well for them to proceed with the no-nda.
I think they did well to not lift the nda and hopefully all things will be smooth on july.

RocketFarmer

Difference between a release versus a development is the development will show progress and growth whereas a release is what it is.

Steven makes the call on when the world gets to see his game. No one is arguing that point. What would have been nice was to see this game in its various states. From a something that barely looks like a game to where it is now to where it will be in 2-3 years.

From what some of the alpha testers have said there were a lot of great experiences. I do hope Intrepid makes a Making of series to show the various points in development with some of those experiences. Not a series of showcases but the behind the scenes stuff. What those players got to see and experience.

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