Combat Criticisms (constructive feedback only please)

I want to preface this by saying I have not played the alpha, so all my feedback is based on the streams. The main I have criticisms are, the animations locking in place, which they plan to fix apparently. There's too much idle time, maybe that's just Steven trying to show the game, but he seems to run out of mana a lot. If you want mana management to be a gameplay feature, you either need a fun way to manage mana and have that be a strategic gameplay feature figuring out what abilities to do, to do the most damage without running out of mana, or make something to do while your out of mana to regen it. Lastly, make the abilities have some synergy, rather then just doing everything when its off cooldown, I know he mentioned a proc bleed effect or something, that would improve other abilities when in effect, in the future, but there needs to be different gameplay for each class, and only one synergetic ability across the board can get boring.
I welcome anyone else to give your feedback, try to keep it more specific though, on what's wrong with it and how it could improve.

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Magic Man

Hm. My main concern atm would be hard CC's being tab like the tank pull ability (Steven said it's a soft cc hence tab but it really doesn't look like one). Other than that I know they'll revamp many things including the speed of combat soo I'm just eagerly waiting to see what they'll come up with.

maouw

Magic Man wrote: »

Hm. My main concern atm would be hard CC's being tab like the tank pull ability (Steven said it's a soft cc hence tab but it really doesn't look like one). Other than that I know they'll revamp many things including the speed of combat soo I'm just eagerly waiting to see what they'll come up with.

Yep, if pulling other people is a tab ability, that's broken.

pulling is one of the hardest forms of cc:
>you cannot respond to it (like a stun)
>you are forced into a misposition (not just rooted)

It needs to have serious costs if it's also going to be a homing ability.

I'm curious what counter-cc options the devs are exploring?

Dygz

akatosh wrote: »

I want to preface this by saying I have not played the alpha, so all my feedback is based on the streams. The main I have criticisms are, the animations locking in place, which they plan to fix apparently. There's too much idle time, maybe that's just Steven trying to show the game, but he seems to run out of mana a lot. If you want mana management to be a gameplay feature, you either need a fun way to manage mana and have that be a strategic gameplay feature figuring out what abilities to do, to do the most damage without running out of mana, or make something to do while your out of mana to regen it. Lastly, make the abilities have some synergy, rather then just doing everything when its off cooldown, I know he mentioned a proc bleed effect or something, that would improve other abilities when in effect, in the future, but there needs to be different gameplay for each class, and only one synergetic ability across the board can get boring.
I welcome anyone else to give your feedback, try to keep it more specific though, on what's wrong with it and how it could improve.

I mean - it's Alpha One Preview and the devs are focused on logins, network stability and population density.
Combat is not at all balanced right now.

Solo, I rarely have to worry about Mana depletion...as a Cleric.
Duoing with a Tank, my Mana depleted around every third mob killed by the Tank while I just healed him. And, we were Level 4 killing Level 10 mobs.

In the raid I was in with Steven, he mostly watched and directed.
Steven boosts everyone to 15 for the raids. There is not really enough time to figure out ability synergies.
Plus, we probably don't have all of our class abilities yet. We don't have any of our Weapon Abilities yet.

At the moment, combat is just bare bones so we can have a little bit of fun while we test. We will have to wait a bit before the complexities are implemented.

Blackford

It was interesting that in the siege video the attacking forces were able to chain CC stephen for so very long to counter his god-mode dev buffs.

I wonder if there's going to be some sort of diminishing returns system put into practice.
Otherwise it looks like CC will be king.

neuroguy

Blackford wrote: »

It was interesting that in the siege video the attacking forces were able to chain CC stephen for so very long to counter his god-mode dev buffs.

I wonder if there's going to be some sort of diminishing returns system put into practice.
Otherwise it looks like CC will be king.

If you watch the live stream video, Steven says there will be diminishing returns.

Sathrago

neuroguy wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

I'll personally start scrutinizing things when they start saying things are were they want them to be.

So once they are less susceptible to feedback? Steven said they changed animations because of initial feedback and now based on current feedback thinks they may have overdone it with their initial change. Sounds like rn is the best time for combat feedback no?

My point is that they already know that this needs to be improved upon. The whole idea is to trust in their ability to provide a good quality experience and they are working towards that. I see this early video content as more of a "See guys, We aren't idiots or scammers so give us a chance?" Steven said it himself, this is about getting the core functions working and not about balance. He also spoke about split body animations to allow for more fluid combat and to be honest I see that as quality control and something that can be dealt with later or at least not as important to deal with when the core functionality of the game is still being revised and improved.

Dygz

If we don't complain during Alpha One Preview nothing will ever change.

Sathrago

Dygz wrote: »

If we don't complain during Alpha One Preview nothing will ever change.

im not talking about anything outside of what is being discussed in this thread. combat's going to be revamped soon. let them do that.

Dygz

There is nothing we can do to stop them from doing that.

akatosh

Dygz wrote: »

There is nothing we can do to stop them from doing that.

Well you want to let them know whats wrong with something and how you could improve it, before they revamp something, or at least during, so that they know what to improve upon. Otherwise they may have to waste more man hours doing it again if it isnt good afterwards. We're not critiquing the game so that we can recommend if people buy it or not, were saying the things that need improved upon.

Marcet

I think combat should never be frustrating, by not being fluid enough, losing control by not knowing what CCd you, losing vision and not seeing anything because camera is blocked by ability effects or other things.

Punishing and skillful? yes. When there's a balance and a fluidity to it, when you know why are you stunned and why you died, there is no problem.
Remember that this game is gonna be played by people for a LOT of time, thousands of hours, so the moment you cause frustration and minimal mental stress on the combat and animations not being pleasant enough, you create a problem.

Dygz

Going to be difficult to offer meaningful criticism for combat that has already been revamped and is therefore already obsolete.

akatosh

Dygz wrote: »

Going to be difficult to offer meaningful criticism for combat that has already been revamped and is therefore already obsolete.

The combat isn't revamped yet, they said its going to be a gradual process that will take a while to do. they have changed a few things, but are gradually going through and changing the combat over time

Dygz

That is what Alpha means. Yes.

Conrad

I think, for the default attack, at the very least I would prefer if there was a toggle in gameplay settings where you can pick between auto attack and manual attack for those that prefer 1 over the other. Obviously auto would be default. I personally prefer clicking because it feels like bigger impact.

Active blocking would be awesome as well. If you have a shield you can block ranged, but if you only have weapons than only do semi blocks on weapons or something of that sort. Same for dodging. Leather armour should allow easy dodging while heavy/plate should only allow a back step away or to the side, even tho in real life a plate user could combat roll, but tbh you would still be pretty slow despite how viable it kinda is.

I am kind of worried about some weapons having obvious advantage in melee so far, specifically spears. I know it's alpha, but already seeing 1 weapon being able to CC spam someone is a bit weird 😅

So far these are my suggestions. Probably after the next alpha I will be able to suggest more

neuroguy

@akatosh btw I confirmed with Steven yesterday on discord that all classes will use mana. The one explanation he gave for this, which is as far as I'm concerned the only valid one and still not a good enough argument to justify it (just my opinion), is that mana regen stat will be relevant for all classes allowing for gear to be more easily interchangeable. Not sure why % resource gained/regen wouldn't work but in any case, he's the big man and that's his decision at the moment.

bloodprophet

George Black wrote: »

Let's wait till combat revamp

This is the only good answer so far. wait and see what the revamp brings us and we see more then 1% of the combat. Then and only then can we give any kind of positive feedback.

Conrad

neuroguy wrote: »

@akatosh btw I confirmed with Steven yesterday on discord that all classes will use mana. The one explanation he gave for this, which is as far as I'm concerned the only valid one and still not a good enough argument to justify it (just my opinion), is that mana regen stat will be relevant for all classes allowing for gear to be more easily interchangeable. Not sure why % resource gained/regen wouldn't work but in any case, he's the big man and that's his decision at the moment.

Ugh, I hate mana on fighters xP

Well, I guess some sacrifices have to be made

Zeric

@Conrad would you be okay with it if they colored the mana bar yellow and called it stanima?

Dygz

Bwa haha!

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