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Will there be an option to be left handed or right handed?

Greetings AoC community.

I can’t seem to find anything on this or maybe I’m just not looking in the right place. Will there be an option to be left handed or right handed? Anyone know?
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Comments

  • DreohDreoh Member
    edited June 2021
    Nothing like that is confirmed so far

    If they did implement it I'd imagine it'd just be through mirror-flipping models and rigs

    Edit: Check my next comment on why this is not ideal
  • ZeshioZeshio Member
    Let's hope so! I'm hoping it's as easy as allowing sword or shield in either hand. Obviously things like bows and guns would require model flipping like @Dreoh mentioned, but it would be a nice touch.
  • Would be very nice. Probably not cuz its extra work for basically nothing.
  • szelesbt wrote: »
    Would be very nice. Probably not cuz its extra work for basically nothing.

    I mean yeah, the realist in me is conflicted though. To say that it's extra work would be fair for most other games but for Ashes I'm not so sure. With what they want to deliver, this seems like small potatoes. A small flavor thing that goes with the world they're trying ot create. I mean, they're going to have gambling and taverns and businesses.
  • ConradConrad Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I hope not. Adding left and right handedness is far too much and it wastes dev time. Insignificant things like that should be left for dead last as a MAYBE afterthought
  • DreohDreoh Member
    edited June 2021
    It could be deceptively complicated to code depending on how they've structured their systems so far.

    If they've created a sufficiently flexible infrastructure it wouldn't be too difficult, but if they've hard-tied things to off-model positions like "spawn particles from 3 units to the right, 3 forward, and 6 up to simulate coming out of the right side of the player or similar hard-coded things. Though I doubt that experienced professionals like they have on the team would do any hard-coding

    If they've left the systems flexible enough it could be as easy as adding a simple toggle that flips everything along the x-axis
    That unfortunately would also mean any visuals with a specific perspective in mind would be ruined, like a shield with a sigil on it would have it's sigil flipped which could look strange
  • If they have time after launch, they can think about it. Let's let them get the game out so we can play it before adding a lot of work.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Dreoh wrote: »
    Nothing like that is confirmed so far

    If they did implement it I'd imagine it'd just be through mirror-flipping models and rigs
    There would be a lot more to it than this.

    If this is all they did, it would result in opposing animations looking completely wrong. You would have rangers shooting arrows that appear to come from the bow when held in one hand, but out of thin air when held in the other hand. You would have characters blocking with their shield, but blocking the wrong direction. This would also result in the attacker seeming to attack a player who blocks a non-existent blow from a totally different direction, only to have the attack that player made that was clearly not blocked actually be blocked.

    I do like the idea of being able to have a left or right handed character, but I can fully see why Intrepid wouldn't want to go to all the extent of making a good looking combat system only to have it ruined by mismatched animations.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Well, we don't even know what the design is for that.
    Could be it's in the design already. So, really, we have to ask the devs what the current plan is. AFAIK.
  • DreohDreoh Member
    Noaani wrote: »
    Dreoh wrote: »
    Nothing like that is confirmed so far

    If they did implement it I'd imagine it'd just be through mirror-flipping models and rigs
    There would be a lot more to it than this.

    If this is all they did, it would result in opposing animations looking completely wrong. You would have rangers shooting arrows that appear to come from the bow when held in one hand, but out of thin air when held in the other hand. You would have characters blocking with their shield, but blocking the wrong direction. This would also result in the attacker seeming to attack a player who blocks a non-existent blow from a totally different direction, only to have the attack that player made that was clearly not blocked actually be blocked.

    I do like the idea of being able to have a left or right handed character, but I can fully see why Intrepid wouldn't want to go to all the extent of making a good looking combat system only to have it ruined by mismatched animations.

    Hence why I further explained in my comment just before yours.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Dreoh is right about the mirroring. There are ways to do it, and it should not be the biggest ask in the universe.

    I just worry about this. Is it even worth it? It is not that left-handed people only include about 10% of the population if we are being generous. I think it is closer to 9%. To me, that is still a ton of people.

    When I ask would it be worth it? What I mean is most games get away with not accounting for this. Most people don't expect their games to take this into account. This seems like a feature that I would consider going far beyond expectations. Something I welcome, but I will also don't expect.

    If it is simple and the DEVs see value in it, then I want it. If it is hard, I don't want the DEVs to waste time on it. They could likely score extra points with the player base going above and beyond with other systems that see more use and are easier to implement.
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    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • Vhaeyne wrote: »

    If it is simple and the DEVs see value in it, then I want it. If it is hard, I don't want the DEVs to waste time on it. They could likely score extra points with the player base going above and beyond with other systems that see more use and are easier to implement.

    Yeah this is pretty much how I feel about it. RH or LH options in games is definitely something that is undervalued in my opinion thigh. I understand for logistical reasons why it’s not coded into games but I can’t help but feel like it is something that would go a long way for immersion in a game right when you start.

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Part of it is technology and part of it is because right-handed people are unlikely to think about it.
    Which is why it's always good to bring it up in the game development you follow so that even if it doesn't make it into the current game, devs will be aware enough to consider it for future games.
    Same with gender-neutral, gender-fluid and non-binary characters/pronouns (which I first learned about in 2014 while following EQNext).
  • Sov54Sov54 Member
    I don't think it adds anything to the table, in any case, it makes visuals on combat more messy.

    Also, I know nothing about how dual wield will work here, but if having a different type of weapon in your main or secondary hand affects your kit or stats, then there is no point obscuring it.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Ashes is a roleplaying game.
    If the devs can represent left-handed people in their game and want to - that's great.
  • We have enough of a problem with children of the devil IRL - why represent them in Ashes?



  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    We have enough of a problem with children of the devil IRL - why represent them in Ashes?




    It's the parent's fault - they should have been caned.
    :p
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • kevinoozlingkevinoozling Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    This would be great
  • Why not.
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  • AnikirAnikir Member
    edited June 2021
    Conrad wrote: »
    I hope not. Adding left and right handedness is far too much and it wastes dev time. Insignificant things like that should be left for dead last as a MAYBE afterthought

    So we will not need so many skin tones, hair colors or body type (who needs dwarf designs get beefier and wider)...better yet, lets play with mannequins without any type of expression. Who needs immersion.
    All the arguments against adding this option include the extra work (waste of time) of the developers ... is it really a waste of time to make someone feel included?

    AOC will be a great game! Hope they can bring a lot of stuff to make people happy to explore Verra with their avatars :smiley:
  • The creative director is talking about having a character take a bath in some random house asset and we have people blathering about how having left handed characters is a waste of time. Classic.
  • ConradConrad Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I dont think either of you realise how much work left handedness actually is compared to your shitty examples. Seriously, if you never rigged and animated anything in your life don't talk like this shit is easy. You're behaving like a bunch of kids.

    Left handedness is a waste of resources pre release. It requires animations made for left handed versions because mirroring almost never properly works. Mirror the rig? Sure, animations not so much. Not only that, it literally doubles all the character animations in the game. An emote or skin tone are nothing compared to the amount of work needed for different dominant hands.

    Try to argue as much as you want, but the amount of work needed for left handedness vs its actual use is pretty disproportionate. So yes, my point stands, it's a waste of valuable dev time.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 2021
    It's only a waste of resources if it's not already part of the design.
    Asking for stuff is always fine - as long as you keep in mind that there might not be enough time in the schedule for the devs to do it.
    If there is enough time, great. If there's not enough time, the devs have the idea in the backs of their minds for the games they work on in the future.
  • ConradConrad Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Dygz wrote: »
    It's only a waste of resources if it's not already part of the design.
    Asking for stuff is always fine - as long as you keep in mind that there might not be enough time in the schedule for the devs to do it.
    If there is enough time, great. If there's not enough time, the devs have the idea in the backs of their minds for the games they work on in the future.

    If they are already working on left handedness I'm fine with it, but players requesting it I'm totally against it
  • DreohDreoh Member
    Conrad wrote: »
    I dont think either of you realise how much work left handedness actually is compared to your shitty examples. Seriously, if you never rigged and animated anything in your life don't talk like this shit is easy. You're behaving like a bunch of kids.

    Left handedness is a waste of resources pre release. It requires animations made for left handed versions because mirroring almost never properly works. Mirror the rig? Sure, animations not so much. Not only that, it literally doubles all the character animations in the game. An emote or skin tone are nothing compared to the amount of work needed for different dominant hands.

    Try to argue as much as you want, but the amount of work needed for left handedness vs its actual use is pretty disproportionate. So yes, my point stands, it's a waste of valuable dev time.

    Yep, just as I explained in my follow up comment
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Again, players can request whatever they want. That's what the forums are for.
    The devs will figure out whether they have room in the schedule to accommodate the request (or whether it fits with their design philosophy).
    Some requests may already be part of the design but not yet implemented.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Dygz wrote: »
    Again, players can request whatever they want. That's what the forums are for.
    And other players can agree or disagree, and even provide their reasoning for agreeing or disagreeing. That's also what the forums are for.
  • No excuse for bigotry. They will either do it or not. I don’t expect they will because after all this game isn’t for everyone. It would, however make for an interesting PVP dynamic most games don’t address. It’s more than just aesthetics.

    Left handed people deal with hard every day, so arguments that it’s too hard can talk to the hand. Don’t expect any hand holding either. Sorry for the puns.

    But that’s OK because left handed people make 15% more money, are better problem solvers, spend less time in lines, are more likely to excel at creative and visual arts, are better at multitasking, and are better fighters.

    So I can understand why some would want to keep everything right handed only. Game balance. They would have to otherwise nerf the left handed characters. Besides, left handed flipping dwarves would be just too much for the world to take.
  • ConradConrad Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    No excuse for bigotry. They will either do it or not. I don’t expect they will because after all this game isn’t for everyone. It would, however make for an interesting PVP dynamic most games don’t address. It’s more than just aesthetics.

    Left handed people deal with hard every day, so arguments that it’s too hard can talk to the hand. Don’t expect any hand holding either. Sorry for the puns.

    But that’s OK because left handed people make 15% more money, are better problem solvers, spend less time in lines, are more likely to excel at creative and visual arts, are better at multitasking, and are better fighters.

    So I can understand why some would want to keep everything right handed only. Game balance. They would have to otherwise nerf the left handed characters. Besides, left handed flipping dwarves would be just too much for the world to take.

    I have no idea why you're suddenly mentioning left handers being better and shit like that and how they would need a nerf in game. That makes no sense. Left handed characters would have no advantage or disadvantage in games, never heard more stupid thing in existence lol
  • Guess you don’t know what you don’t know.
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