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Retention

This particular is bout getting the people that are going to try this game to make this their main MMO. Thing is Since there is no Box cost Associated with this game millions of players are going to see what this game is all about. Players do not have to reach max level to decide if this game is for them or not.. Now think leveling process is like 3 to 4 weeds. So basically you have about 30 days before toon makes decision if this game is for them or not. That being he case the leveling expereince has to show case this game.

Since a player may not reach max level before they make that decision then think things like the following woul be good for game.

Was reading about Naval combat and saw that small ships are going to be used for solo content....well my suggesting is to have a Naval Combat Pve Group oreinted quest at low level. So at like level 15 toon is introduced to Naval Combat quest in which he needs three other people to accomplish. Lets say quest is basically manning 4 siege weapons while NPC navigates ship. And players have to fend off waves of monsters or ships or targets. In this particular quest level does not matter to much because playes will be manning siege weapons so really easy to find people. So about 4 people possiblly more are required to finish quest. This does a number of things.

Not sure when Naval Combat will be unlocked but one of the things that this quest does is feature Naval Combat so player may be inclined to pursue that endeavor.

Next thing it does is introduces group play at low level. So might give toon more of a sense of a community at early stages in game. Opposite of this is lonewolfing it all the way to max level then find a guild then that your group of freinds that you play with every one else is stranger. Like a lot of the current MMOs.

Next Idea is along the same lines but instead of naval combat have a group monster coin quest. So lets say you make the demonic bunny accessable. So in a group of eight while being demonic bunnies you accomplish some task. Does same thing as previous idea plus features monsters coins at low level. Also level does not matter to much cause monster coins.

If there are other key features like Node vs Node be pretty cool if you found a way to feature this content at low level cause well if all cool features are at max level players might not reach max level to decide weather or not this game is for them or not.

Next thin I wnat to talk about is the economy. Think it really important to get players involved in the Auction at low level looks game is already geared for already been plent of posts on this subject but basically after a Toon goes out adventuring they ought to have goodies to sell. The econmics of this game look really good if works as aspected looks like A plus expeerience. Introduce player to this A plus experience early one.

In conclusion you have maybe 30 days possibly maybe more if they decide to play a second month to get people immersed in this game. If the leveling process is 4 weeks then you have to introduce all the key features in this game before max level.


Oh forgot to mention that Naval Combat and Monster Combat Could be introduced at low level cause it would be really easy to design such events for all levels.

Comments

  • Sov54Sov54 Member
    I get your point, but I think that's the philosophy a themepark game should go for.

    Things are way more enjoyable and fulfilling when you discover them by yourself and with your friends than by mindlessly following shinny marks on the map to get over it.
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Just FYI, max level is intended to take about 200 hours and was selected for playing 4-6 hours per day for 45 days.
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Leveling
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    The devs have designed the game to give people things to do at all levels; not just at max level.
    You don't have to be max level to participate in Node progression, Sieges or Caravans or Monster Coin events.
    We gain a sense of Community by constructing and defending Nodes. As well as by participating in in-game guilds, social orgs and religions.
    Since players can have their own player stalls and Freeholds and other players will know where those are located in the game - just as they will know where NPC shops are - and because items can be sold there while offline, the Auction House is not as crucial for the economy as it might be otherwise. But, we can expect every server to have some Auction Houses, sure.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Just FYI, max level is intended to take about 200 hours and was selected for playing 4-6 hours per day for 45 days.
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Leveling

    You looking for a race? XD
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • arsnnarsnn Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One
    edited June 2021
    Dygz wrote: »
    The devs have designed the game to give people things to do at all levels; not just at max level.
    You don't have to be max level to participate in Node progression, Sieges or Caravans or Monster Coin events.
    We gain a sense of Community by constructing and defending Nodes. As well as by participating in in-game guilds, social orgs and religions.
    Since players can have their own player stalls and Freeholds and other players will know where those are located in the game - just as they will know where NPC shops are - and because items can be sold there while offline, the Auction House is not as crucial for the economy as it might be otherwise. But, we can expect every server to have some Auction Houses, sure.

    Exactly.
    People have to change their mindset about how the entirety of the progression works.
    This game is no linear themepark, where you can rush to max level by hoping from quest hub to quest hub.

    The beauty of the node system is that you have to be engaged with everything that ties into throughout the whole experience. It enforces social play at the very beginning and transforms it at every stage.

    Also hardcore players will encounter progression gates in form of the node level. Your character can progress further every time the node advances and you have new content to tackle. There‘s probably none that will hit max level very fast and there is certainly none that has obtains perfect gear at the early stages.


    The issue with retention will certainly not be the early stages, but its gonna be a challenge for Inteprid to build something beyond the node leveling stage that people can pursue.
  • AndyAndy Member
    edited June 2021
    Just FYI, max level is intended to take about 200 hours and was selected for playing 4-6 hours per day for 45 days.
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Leveling

    A bit disapointed here. 200 hours leveling is "huge" based on modern MMORPGs but it's fast.
    I was expecting a 400-500 hours leveling content.

    With "only" 200 hours of leveling content, i'm afraid that this game may end up into an another "only end game content matter"

    2021 players will figure a way to reduce those 200h and leveling will become irrelevant pretty fast :(. Because this game is gonna evolve throught alpha/beta. I can bet you that a lot of leveling guides will be ready for AoC release.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Ashes doesn't have an endgame.
    Reaching max Adventurer Level does not mean that you are at the end of curated content.
    Ashes has quite a few max levels to reach... Metropolis being one of them. And maintaining max Node Level is not guaranteed.
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 2021
    Andy wrote: »
    Just FYI, max level is intended to take about 200 hours and was selected for playing 4-6 hours per day for 45 days.
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Leveling

    A bit disapointed here. 200 hours leveling is "huge" based on modern MMORPGs but it's fast.
    I was expecting a 400-500 hours leveling content.

    With "only" 200 hours of leveling content, i'm afraid that this game may end up into an another "only end game content matter"

    2021 players will figure a way to reduce those 200h and leveling will become irrelevant pretty fast :(. Because this game is gonna evolve throught alpha/beta. I can bet you that a lot of leveling guides will be ready for AoC release.

    I was just letting you know that the 3-4 weeks in your post didn't match the intended leveling speed of 6 weeks for hardcore players. Of course, we don't know if IS will succeed in setting that accurately. Also, your described timeframe was in relation to grabbing the interest of new players. The average player doesn't start a game playing 4-6 hours per day everyday. So, leveling should actually take longer than 45 days for most new players.

    IMO, it seems realistic to assume that an average new player (typically a casual) will take months to level cap the first character. That is, if the player sticks with that one starting character the whole way. Total time could quickly increase if they switch.

    Consider if leveling speed is set to 400-500 hours. At 4-6 hours a day, 7 days a week: leveling to cap would take about 12-18 weeks (3-4.5 months). This is for the hardcore group. Playing a couple hours a day for less than 7 days a week would rapidly increase the leveling duration. Again, that is for one single focused character for that full duration.

    Another FYI, content across all level ranges is intended to be kept relevant by requiring crafting materials from lower areas (and the fact that different level content is mixed together rather than having separate regions). I will assume that you have a good grasp of how gear entering the game is almost completely crafter based and repairs will require materials that were used to create the item.
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Just FYI, max level is intended to take about 200 hours and was selected for playing 4-6 hours per day for 45 days.
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Leveling

    You looking for a race? XD

    Not at all. :|

    While I do play a lot, I am typically not the fastest leveler. :/
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I think its hard for a lot of the mmo audience to let go of what they know of what 'endgame' means because we only had mostly big budget themepark mmorpgs for the past 20 years. The sandbox nature of Ashes will be new to a lot of players.
  • MerekMerek Member
    Other than the node system, the game doesn't have much to set itself aside from other games on the market. I'm hoping that the combat system is eventually improved but if not, I doubt it will have even moderate player retention.
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 2021
    We will have to see. The endgame of Ashes is heavily rooted in PvP; and, there is not very many MMOs that focus on meaningful PvP. We will also have to see how successful open world raids and dungeons are with PvP. The crafting and economy systems are quite different from the average MMO while being far more rewarding. The world is also massive for a starting game with a slow exploration speed. Among other things.

    I doubt players will feel like it doesn't have much. But I guess we will see
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 2021
    Merek wrote: »
    Other than the node system, the game doesn't have much to set itself aside from other games on the market. I'm hoping that the combat system is eventually improved but if not, I doubt it will have even moderate player retention.

    Are you kidding me? Players will have a hell a lot more to do in this game then what WoW and other themepark games have to offer. I guess a lot players have not seen what a sandbox type mmorpg can offer as far keeping players invested in the game and retain them for years.

    Eve Online makes the news in gaming because a lot of people that don't play the game are interested in what is going on in that sandbox. Ashes is aiming to have that same living world experience and its a lot more engaging then waiting around for a queue to pop and doing repetitive content with nothing else to do in the game world.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Not really sure where we as players lost our sense of adventure and exploration. Is it from all the theme parks and a failed mind set of hurry rush rush rush to max level so we can complain there is nothing to to?
    The world will be big. Lots to explore and constantly changing. Passing through an area a month after you last came through there we should see something different.
    Lots of dynamic events hopefully as the world changes. Not like GW2 where they are on a timer and you can fast travel to them with a web site tracking them all so you know what is going on where.
    Go explore and have fun. Do your own thing stop waiting for other people to tell you where to go and when.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
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