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Preventing hostile OOC guild takeover drama

Just watched an old Asmongold Guild video, and in short this happened

The original GM got bored or something, transferred GM status to a low level recent member, that literally took the Guild hostage, and 900 + members. That´s the main issue, all other things are secondary for this question.


Question: In a Guild in AoC, how are the leadership and management system working for permissions and ranks etc?

* Can the leader just issue / transfer ranks as he/she wants on the fly?
* Are there options for a guild to voice their opinions via a Vote system for let´s say promotions etc?
* Can a guild secure the guild´s combined storage of resources and money, so no one person can take it and leave?


Comments

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    I mean, to me, this is a problem that players caused.

    Developers shouldnt be trying to develop around all the things players can do that may annoy other players.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    This sounds like a community thing.
    Are you concerned that your guild will betray you? Or maybe someone might do bad stuff?

    I think they should give basic structure and get out of the way. A guild with 900 people isn't a guild it is a mob or social club at best.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    While we don't yet have specifics from Intrepid, Steven has made it clear that he understands the importance of guilds, guild leadership, and good guild administration systems. Any reasonable chain of command implementation would, by necessity, ensure that there is a clear line of succession for a guild's top leadership. If a Guild Master went idle for a long period or chose to resign, the highest ranking officer would automatically take over. Whether by direct election, or a consensus of existing officers, changing or bypassing a chain of command of this type wouldn't be something one person could do alone.

    That way you can have proper internal guild drama, instead of random annoying stuff.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I love to see the stories like the one you described with Asmongold. It is the real emergent story telling that only happens in a world where things are hard to get and people can screw each other over that makes me love these games.

    I have been in guilds where things like this have happened. People take some wealth and run. The anger for the offending player is real. Especially when they can't change names or servers. The resulting guild war is always epic.
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    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • GrihmGrihm Member
    SongRune wrote: »
    While we don't yet have specifics from Intrepid, Steven has made it clear that he understands the importance of guilds, guild leadership, and good guild administration systems. Any reasonable chain of command implementation would, by necessity, ensure that there is a clear line of succession for a guild's top leadership. If a Guild Master went idle for a long period or chose to resign, the highest ranking officer would automatically take over. Whether by direct election, or a consensus of existing officers, changing or bypassing a chain of command of this type wouldn't be something one person could do alone.

    That way you can have proper internal guild drama, instead of random annoying stuff.

    Indeed. The dramas should be kept in game. Also, a lacking in how a guild functions with loopholes should also be addressed before release.

    I was in a Guild in Eso, and we just quit due to just no one had the energy to play at that stage. When i returned, i started to do my usual stuff, and added items and mats to the guild bank. Little did i know, the flaw in the system did not allow me to withdraw my own items, but i could bank them. So...that´s one thing that should have been working, but did not really.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Well, but, the max membership for a Guild is 300. So...900 is a non-issue.
    Nodes already have systems for choosing a leader. Seems like it would not be difficult to include that with Guilds.
    Maybe there can be a Guild Type where the leader is chosen by vote.
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member
    edited June 2021
    Grihm wrote: »
    I was in a Guild in Eso, and we just quit due to just no one had the energy to play at that stage. When i returned, i started to do my usual stuff, and added items and mats to the guild bank. Little did i know, the flaw in the system did not allow me to withdraw my own items, but i could bank them. So...that´s one thing that should have been working, but did not really.

    What you described isn’t a flaw, though, @Grihm.

    If you have been given the proper rank within the guild to withdraw from the guild bank, you could certainly do that.

    However, you weren’t given that rank … either from the exiting guild leader or the current one.

    That’s the guild leadership’s oversight and not ESO’s.

    In other words, working as intended.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member
    edited June 2021
    Grihm wrote: »
    Just watched an old Asmongold Guild video, and in short this happened

    The original GM got bored or something, transferred GM status to a low level recent member, that literally took the Guild hostage, and 900 + members. That´s the main issue, all other things are secondary for this question.

    Preventing this:

    1. Don't join a guild where the leader is a dick.
    2. Be more discriminating about who you let join, to keep out the dicks.
    3. That's pretty much it.
    4. Why are you still reading? We're done here....
    5. ...... Seriously?
    6. *facepalms*
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Grihm wrote: »
    Just watched an old Asmongold Guild video, and in short this happened

    The original GM got bored or something, transferred GM status to a low level recent member, that literally took the Guild hostage, and 900 + members. That´s the main issue, all other things are secondary for this question.


    Question: In a Guild in AoC, how are the leadership and management system working for permissions and ranks etc?

    * Can the leader just issue / transfer ranks as he/she wants on the fly?
    * Are there options for a guild to voice their opinions via a Vote system for let´s say promotions etc?
    * Can a guild secure the guild´s combined storage of resources and money, so no one person can take it and leave?


    This is hilarious and absolutely deserved.
    Great power comes with ...
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I would like to see guilds have a KoS list that could be incorporated into the system to deal with wayward players!
  • GrihmGrihm Member
    akabear wrote: »
    I would like to see guilds have a KoS list that could be incorporated into the system to deal with wayward players!

    What qualifies as one?
  • WarthWarth Member
    @Grihm
    It can be as simple as a small red cross next to the player's name indicating that this person is KoS by the guild.
  • GrihmGrihm Member
    Warth wrote: »
    @Grihm
    It can be as simple as a small red cross next to the player's name indicating that this person is KoS by the guild.

    Oh i meant, what would qualify as to become classed as a wayward player. Not fully onboard as to what that means.
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Every guild will define it differently, from Grand Theft of Guild Resources down to Not Liking Guild Leader's Boyfriend's Jokes.

    As for 'marking' the KOS list for guild members, I would submit 'no.' Why? It is up to the guild and its members to have their crap together sufficiently to know who is on that list. If the list isn't communicated to members or is too long a list of names, that is the guild's problem and AoC shouldn't fix it for them.
  • GrihmGrihm Member
    Personally, im looking forward to place the few coins i will have in an investment instead. If anything is over after rent is payed of course ^^
  • Just make a voting system when a GM want to transfer his rank to another guild member X commanders must vote yes (assuming the number of commanders are X+2) or like 40 members must vote yes.

    It can be controlled easily by a few lines of codes.
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  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Grihm wrote: »
    akabear wrote: »
    I would like to see guilds have a KoS list that could be incorporated into the system to deal with wayward players!

    What qualifies as one?

    Scammers, spies, griefers, caravan fighters, spammers every clan with have different values and tolerance levels.

    But wished there was such a think in the past to make management of those wayward players simplified and flaggable.
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I believe this is a situation that needs to sorted out by the players, not rely on some built-in systems from the devs. A big part of being in a guild is trust. If you don't trust everyone in your guild to not screw you over, you shouldn't be in that guild.

    I'm just my opinion though.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • MerekMerek Member
    That was purely human error, nothing to be done about it, too bad.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    You can have all the trust in the world... only takes that one new member to screw things over.
    Plus, Ashes will have spies in some guilds.
  • GrihmGrihm Member
    edited June 2021
    Player drama is one thing, but just as long as there are ways to help people if they are on the receiving end of a hack and guild bank theft etc.

    Btw.. Are there regular banks as well, non player driven where one can store items?
  • RamirezRamirez Member
    edited June 2021
    Guild Banks theft drama need to happen, i love that drama when happen , let players lead with that, just given them some tools
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited July 2021
    The lesson to be learned here is don't be in streamer guilds.

    People do this shit for attention. And there's a built in audience right in the guild.
    Aq0KG2f.png
  • AerlanaAerlana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    as said already, 900 members is no more a guild.
    in any game, when i so guilds far to big to have a real unite between members, i made sure to stay away from it.
    i never heard about a good "monster" guild. all time it is abusive GM/officer that just manipulate the guild to have freefarm.

    And so yes such drama can happen even in "small" guild. But here is the second point.
    Chose your guild. When i join one, i already spoke to people, played with them and/or try to get information about their reputation. I look to the rules, often in "bad" guilds you can find some really strange things in rules that is a warning.
    Then if all is ok, i postulate, and while i enter the guild, i do my part, but i don't go totally "hey my friends". I need time to have bound build with the other before i really trust them.


    What you speak, or the guild we saw on the topic about "community" are just 2 guilds made to abuse people. Not the devs work to make system to avoid this, but us, players, to be carefull on what we join.
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