Ashes Talk: Player Collision

Simurgh

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Ashes Talk: Player Collision

Our next Ashes Talk is live titled "Player Collision". Do you think collision should be a thing in Ashes of Creation? We are always open for discussions down in the comments. As always if you like the video drop a like and maybe think about subscribing. Support is always appreciated.

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Merek

Yes. I want to be immersed, let me bump into people while I walk through a city. Without collision a game feels like a game, especially when I phase through players or mounts, not a fan at all.

Tyranthraxus

It seems like a VERY good idea for sieges and PvP combat, but kind of frivolous or un-necessary for everyday life, in the game.

It's also probably un-needed for PvE encounters. Especially if area-heals are going to be a thing.

bloodprophet

I think it will make PvE stuff more fun and challenging when you can't stack up for AOE anything.
Even the little bit we experience so far is not bad. People just need to get used to not stacking up and planning their movement routes more efficiently.

Simurgh

Merek wrote: »

Yes. I want to be immersed, let me bump into people while I walk through a city. Without collision a game feels like a game, especially when I phase through players or mounts, not a fan at all.

Thanks for sharing!

Simurgh

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

It seems like a VERY good idea for sieges and PvP combat, but kind of frivolous or un-necessary for everyday life, in the game.

It's also probably un-needed for PvE encounters. Especially if area-heals are going to be a thing.

I appreciate the thoughts and feedback on your perspective!

ariatras

I like it on all accounts. It just ads a bit of realism. It allows you to use chokepoints more effectively too. It adds depth imho. Glad it's a thing. It'll take some getting used to though, for sure. But that's not a bad thing.

Dizz

I think this is base on game design needs, if some contents need player collision to be good like using body block to defend siege gate entries, but at same time there need more ways to let players can get into the castle to flank or something able to break the body blocked gate situations, and other contents don't really need player collision just turn it off.

And I think hybrid combat is good, but I am assuming the differences between tab targeting mode and action combat mode are like GW2 action camera mode and normal mode, it just a different way to control your character and camera and how you take a target, it's not which mode is better than the other, it has to be just a choice, in my opinion if both modes are reach their final form and objectively one mode is better than the other why we need the worse one?

akabear

I want to see bosses pick up players and throw them at others, just like Mortal
https://youtube.com/watch?v=hESdaHsodZw

astarinice

Please, please turn it off for PvE/unflagged players. There's simply no reason for player collision when people aren't in a PvP situation. Outside of PvP it's a griefing mechanism.

Also, it causes a large number of problems during testing. For example, when Steven asked us to line up for a photo and none of us could move - meanwhile Steven is yelling at us because we can't move to get into lines.

When it comes to raid mechanics, it's even worse. For example while fighting Jermaine, Torment of Illwind, the narrow passageways and large number of adds made it difficult for our party to maneuver around the ruins while fighting him (and his killer dash & homing missile attacks) - and pulling him outside could cause him to leash back to the middle.

Keep it for PvP, kill it for unflagged people.

Samson

From what I have seen, player collision appears to be... pretty clunky. It also appears to get in the way of mundane tasks like walking around town or whatnot. Constantly running into other players has to be quite a nuisance and I can imagine it getting quite annoying just after a short period of time.

I understand why player collision is in the game but hopefully it can be tweaked and possibly eliminated when within friendly towns or freeholds.

akabear

In early L2 there was a limited amount of player collision.. we were able to box in a scammer in the field while they had all the gear they had stolen until a player came that was high enough to pk them for their gear!

A great memorable day early in the game!

Simurgh

ariatras wrote: »

I like it on all accounts. It just ads a bit of realism. It allows you to use chokepoints more effectively too. It adds depth imho. Glad it's a thing. It'll take some getting used to though, for sure. But that's not a bad thing.

It definitely takes getting use to for me as well. It isn't something I am generally use to!

Simurgh

akabear wrote: »

In early L2 there was a limited amount of player collision.. we were able to box in a scammer in the field while they had all the gear they had stolen until a player came that was high enough to pk them for their gear!

A great memorable day early in the game!

I still wish I had experienced this game when it launched. It sounds like in that era it was a lot of fun. I hear lots of nostalgia from those who played.

Simurgh

Samson wrote: »

From what I have seen, player collision appears to be... pretty clunky. It also appears to get in the way of mundane tasks like walking around town or whatnot. Constantly running into other players has to be quite a nuisance and I can imagine it getting quite annoying just after a short period of time.

I understand why player collision is in the game but hopefully it can be tweaked and possibly eliminated when within friendly towns or freeholds.

I have definitely heard this reflected by others as well!

Simurgh

astarinice wrote: »

Please, please turn it off for PvE/unflagged players. There's simply no reason for player collision when people aren't in a PvP situation. Outside of PvP it's a griefing mechanism.

Also, it causes a large number of problems during testing. For example, when Steven asked us to line up for a photo and none of us could move - meanwhile Steven is yelling at us because we can't move to get into lines.

When it comes to raid mechanics, it's even worse. For example while fighting Jermaine, Torment of Illwind, the narrow passageways and large number of adds made it difficult for our party to maneuver around the ruins while fighting him (and his killer dash & homing missile attacks) - and pulling him outside could cause him to leash back to the middle.

Keep it for PvP, kill it for unflagged people.

Thanks for sharing! I definitely like to reflect on community feedback a lot and this is very useful!

Hevel

I will not be testing until Alpha 2 so I have not experience how clunky the player collision currently is, but I am currently in favor of the player collision.
It may raise the skill floor for team play, but it provides an opportunity for mobility skills to be valuable. Mobility skills may cause lots of opportunities for glitches, but that's what testing is for. If it causes too many problems, then removing it is currently still an option.
Regardless of the final outcome, I have confidence that the player community will adapt and these adaptations will be a part of the larger Ashes of Creation player culture.

ariatras

astarinice wrote: »

Please, please turn it off for PvE/unflagged players. There's simply no reason for player collision when people aren't in a PvP situation. Outside of PvP it's a griefing mechanism.

Also, it causes a large number of problems during testing. For example, when Steven asked us to line up for a photo and none of us could move - meanwhile Steven is yelling at us because we can't move to get into lines.

When it comes to raid mechanics, it's even worse. For example while fighting Jermaine, Torment of Illwind, the narrow passageways and large number of adds made it difficult for our party to maneuver around the ruins while fighting him (and his killer dash & homing missile attacks) - and pulling him outside could cause him to leash back to the middle.

Keep it for PvP, kill it for unflagged people.

I can see how this would be problematic, but your proposed solution needs some changing.

Instead, within cities and the like, go for an "Assassin's Creed" style where you just move through the crowd. Don't disable it in the open world/dungeons/raids. It creates an extra layer of complexity. Fighting through a chokepoint in terms of PvE as you described, should feel like a slow progress type thing, if there are adds.Fight for every meter of progress, have your tanks in front as though you're in an army of Romans. It just requires adaptation.

But yes, if I afk for a moment and people stand in a circle around me within the city, just make it the same as what happens during a festival and you're trying to get to the beer stand.

McMackMuck

I've read through many really good comments above.

I also want player collision to be part of the experience. I'm not a game dev, so I don't know how difficult this idea is to implement.... Maybe make the collision mechanic more and less significant based on the units relationship to each other:
1) Party and Guild members slide past each other easily; they are trying to work together and are more likely to be accommodating.
2) unrelated units are a medium sized obstacle; you stop running if you hit them, but otherwise you can _walk_ through a crowd of them without too much hinderance. If everyone is pushing in the same direction in a heavily congested area and the gap narrows then there would still be an effect that would slow down the crowd "flow rate".
3) anything flagged against you (*) is a wide obstacle; you stop running if you hit them. You can push through a gap between two such targets at a snails pace if they aren't actively pushing back. Knockback and Knockback mitigation abilities would rock in these situations!
(*) but not if you are flagged (only) against them - A green (non-combatant) isn't going to try and stop a purple or red pushing past.
4) Some abilities may increase your movement blocking radius (vs. enemies) or make you more difficult to push away, making it easier for you to hold a doorway.
5) What happens when 10,000 players decide to (try to) enter the same enclosed space? Funneling effects from scenery may cause problems? Need to consider what to do if you end up "stuck" either in a crowd of players or pushed into scenery. In extreme circumstances, should it be possible for a player be crushed to death without actually being attacked? If so, should they get an exp debt or drop anything?

I don't agree with letting unflagged players run around without collision. If someone wants to be a jerk to greens by flagging to attack them then just being an annoying obstacle without attacking (i.e. avoiding corruption but still being a jerk), then let them, players will talk to each other and the servers will police themselves.

Arthus Dawnbreaker

I think collisions should automatically turn on when in pop mode or sieges or in a dual. I think it should auto turn off when in cities and just walking around trying to get quests. I saw a lot of people getting stuck when getting a quests and not being able to move when crowed around by other players trying to get that same quest. Players had to try and jump over the crowd with sometimes didnt even work and would have to wait for a player to step aside. I think it would make for a very immersive gameplay when in battles.

Simurgh

I really enjoyed all these chats and sharing of ideas! Cheers!

Denahi

Yes please for the love of good implement collision with proper animations, if you walk into another player or npc give us a proper animation that reflects a collition. Collision makes games feel far more immersive to me and I think it's a great deal of importance, I can't stand walking through npc's or player's like a ghost, it feels so game breaking, and it's off putting. I think that running into someone and walking into someone should have seperate animations, give them proper collision animations that would reflect the impact, animations like these are key.

Denahi

Bastellon wrote: »

I think collisions should automatically turn on when in pop mode or sieges or in a dual. I think it should auto turn off when in cities and just walking around trying to get quests. I saw a lot of people getting stuck when getting a quests and not being able to move when crowed around by other players trying to get that same quest. Players had to try and jump over the crowd with sometimes didnt even work and would have to wait for a player to step aside. I think it would make for a very immersive gameplay when in battles.

I agree to some extent but I think there is a simply fix for that, first off most of those collisions are still in the process of development, all npc's are not placed with collisions in mind as of yet, also a shoving/pushing animation would resolve this, it would interact with the object in a manner that would slightly shove it aside allowing you to pass through. Still I see your point and I agree, but I want the npc's and player's to have exist in a physical plain and to not feel like statues.

Denahi

ariatras wrote: »

astarinice wrote: »

Please, please turn it off for PvE/unflagged players. There's simply no reason for player collision when people aren't in a PvP situation. Outside of PvP it's a griefing mechanism.

Also, it causes a large number of problems during testing. For example, when Steven asked us to line up for a photo and none of us could move - meanwhile Steven is yelling at us because we can't move to get into lines.

When it comes to raid mechanics, it's even worse. For example while fighting Jermaine, Torment of Illwind, the narrow passageways and large number of adds made it difficult for our party to maneuver around the ruins while fighting him (and his killer dash & homing missile attacks) - and pulling him outside could cause him to leash back to the middle.

Keep it for PvP, kill it for unflagged people.

I can see how this would be problematic, but your proposed solution needs some changing.

Instead, within cities and the like, go for an "Assassin's Creed" style where you just move through the crowd. Don't disable it in the open world/dungeons/raids. It creates an extra layer of complexity. Fighting through a chokepoint in terms of PvE as you described, should feel like a slow progress type thing, if there are adds.Fight for every meter of progress, have your tanks in front as though you're in an army of Romans. It just requires adaptation.

But yes, if I afk for a moment and people stand in a circle around me within the city, just make it the same as what happens during a festival and you're trying to get to the beer stand.

100% agree with the assassins creed animations being implemented, it would resolve most issues that collision may cause.