Dropping worn gear while corrupted

ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
in General Discussion
what is everyone's thoughts on this?

i personally love the idea of dropping materials that you have been gathering etc when dying, it creates a real risk/reward feeling and makes you never feel safe in the open world

however i feel dropping worn Armor/weapons is way to punishing, even if it is only whilst you are corrupted, been preaching this game to a lot of my mates and they are all keen to play, but this is the one mechanic we all feel is a bit to much?

curious on what you guys think!

Comments

  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited July 2021
    Works fine since L2.
    Killing a red is really rewarding as a pvp experience.
    I have also gone red so many times, and the thrill of survival is great. It gives a whole new meaning to "you lose" and it pumps your blood.

    Mmos and gear in mmos should become a challenge again.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited July 2021
    This is an open world mmorpg.
    The corruption must punish people, not slap them on the wrist.

    This isnt eso cyrodiil or rust or scam.
    You cant murder and walk away.

    The corruption system AS IT IS NOW protects:
    Pve
    Progression
    Exploration
    Crafting/gathering/economy

    "We all feel is too much?"
    No...
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    i feel like there needs to be a way to work off corruption that doesn't take hours of grinding or dying if dropping your gear is the case, even if it was on a timer would be better
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Shuiyn wrote: »
    i feel like there needs to be a way to work off corruption that doesn't take hours of grinding or dying if dropping your gear is the case, even if it was on a timer would be better

    Just dont get that much corruption.
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @Shuiyn If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

    Translated, don't go red if you are unwilling to pay the price.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    As George Black stated it worked well in L2.. but perhaps fairer in later development in the game than in the beginning. At the begining it was random amount of drop on death, fight or not. Red or not.

    L2 was a scaling risk with greater chance to drop the more "red" one became through successive Pk`s.
    Work around to reduce risk was to laden oneself with a few low weight, low value items. It was not know if that helped or not but it felt like it did.

    Own experience, dying with 2-3 pks I would drop some mats and occassionally 1 piece of gear. Providing my group was the last team standing, then it was picked up.. but sometimes even pk`s had gear returned.. as some enjoyed the battle with higher xp loss stakes to fight that way..

    With 10+ pk spree on day, (bot killing) we went to a quiet place and team killed me off and when I died first time, ALL my gear fell on the ground and the moment that happened was a true test of clan loyalty as some very, very valuable gear dropped. Got all back but with a new member covering my back... never really know.

    L2 later in game, when clan had a clan hall and there was instant teleport capability, the risk of dropping was much less than early game.

    From that experience, and with the Ashes take on this, it will be a more risky exercise to go red.
    • There is no instant teleport out.
    • Clan mates cannot pickup gear.. but that can be worked around.
    • You are possibly highlighted on the map to bounty hunters.

    So, really, until the mechanics are worked out, and the work arounds found and the actual risk worked out, then no idea if it is going to be a risk players take or not.

  • AerlanaAerlana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Shuiyn wrote: »
    what is everyone's thoughts on this?
    [...]
    curious on what you guys think!

    How i get corruption : attacking again and again "green" people
    ok
    What are "green people" : people with PvP flag off.
    People who prefer to not PvP. It can be roleplayer doing roleplay shit. People simply visiting the world. A short log in to do fast a thing and want to not lose too much doing anything else. Or the player is sick, and can't decently play enough to do PvP.

    So for killing people that now doesnt want to pvp, i have the risk to lose my stuff. . .

    "but we are on PvP open world game ! if you don't want to PvP don't play the game". The examples i gave is not people that don't want PvP, it is people that don't want to PvP "now" And they have their risk : being in PvP situation while they don't want it. And the death bind to it (with the XP debt, etc etc)



    So no problem with the sanction of corruption. the game aim to have different way to have PvP out of open world, including one i hate in MMORPG : arenas.
    The open world has to be wild, but the fun of ALL player is the first thing to aim, and transforming "green" character to just "prey" will not be fun for long.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Shuiyn wrote: »
    i feel like there needs to be a way to work off corruption that doesn't take hours of grinding or dying if dropping your gear is the case, even if it was on a timer would be better

    Where is the punishment in that?
    What would stop me from killing you 24/7?
    Why should anyone be bothered to come and stop me?
    Im not gonna carry any mats on me.
  • AerlanaAerlana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    George Black wrote: »

    Where is the punishment in that?

    Some people consider that, because we are in PvP game, there shouldnt be any punishment for doing PvP, no matter what...
    on all game i saw people even try to justify the "greykilling" (killing people far lower level than you) or killin quest NPC when possible (and so... forbidding people to do quest and get level)

    So yes, i think Shuiyn is just one of the people considering that killing "green player" shouldnt be so risky.
    Simply...


    Also, he says he thinks a timer would be better than doing anything activ... but it is simply because he clearly doesnt want to "play" the risk. so = kill green, hide time to get rid of corruption, rinse and repeat. And about bounty hunting ? no risk because it seems to activate past a certain amount of corruption, so if you stay under the corruption amount that trigger your spot on the map, you can hide and afk quite safely ;). It is clear so "this is better" because "far less risk"
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    haha i appreciate the assumptions but its definitely not the case, i wouldn't find much fun in ganking people that didn't want to pvp, in most games that i have played some of the most enjoyable experiences would be grouping up with one or two people and going out into the world and finding some like minded people that wanted to have some pvp fun, but having armor drop whilst this is happening is just a to big of a deterrent, that being said you could still do this if they flag up when you attack them so it may work either way, im just speculating and wanted to know the communities thoughts
  • AerlanaAerlana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 2021
    Shuiyn wrote: »
    haha i appreciate the assumptions but its definitely not the case, i wouldn't find much fun in ganking people that didn't want to pvp, in most games that i have played some of the most enjoyable experiences would be grouping up with one or two people and going out into the world and finding some like minded people that wanted to have some pvp fun, but having armor drop whilst this is happening is just a to big of a deterrent

    Corruption = killing green people. people that do not seek PvP.
    What you describe "roaming to find people who wants pvp like i do" wont give you any corruption, so no "stuff loss"

    Corruption comes only if you kill green player

    If a combatant (purple) player kills a non-combatant (green) player in PvP, they will be flagged as corrupt (red).[2]

    A player’s corruption score increases with each non-combatant player killed.[9][10]

    if you fight "combatant" (or "purple" players) you have 0 corruption.
    You can kill one "non combatant" then 10 "combatant" you will have the corruption only for the "non combatant" killed.

    Also
    A corrupt (red player) suffers penalties at four times[14] the rate of a non-combatant, and has a chance to drop any carried/equipped items based on their current corruption score. This includes:[14][5]

    if you only kill one or two green (because... they were really ugly!) the chance will i think be low, maybe even... 0



    Conclusion
    For what you look for as open world PvP in your last post, the corruption is not a thing that will really matters you.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Shuiyn wrote: »
    haha i appreciate the assumptions but its definitely not the case, i wouldn't find much fun in ganking people that didn't want to pvp, in most games that i have played some of the most enjoyable experiences would be grouping up with one or two people and going out into the world and finding some like minded people that wanted to have some pvp fun, but having armor drop whilst this is happening is just a to big of a deterrent, that being said you could still do this if they flag up when you attack them so it may work either way, im just speculating and wanted to know the communities thoughts

    As pointed out in the post above, if you are a group of PvP oriented players and all you are doing is going around looking for other PvP oriented players to fight, you won't be gaining corruption.

    In order to gain corruption, you need to kill a non-combatant - not just attack a non-combatant. Since fighting back against a combatant that is attacking you will cause you to also become a combatant, the only way you can initially become corrupt in Ashes is by *killing* a player that *doesn't fight back*.

    Now, once you have that corruption people can fight you without becoming a combatant, and so this changes things a whole lot. However, you can't become corrupt until you kill that player that doesn't fight back - which is in direct contrast to your stated objective of looking for people to PvP with.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Kill purples and reds - then you won't drop gear.
    You don't drop gear simply by attacking greens.
  • RamirezRamirez Member
    edited July 2021
    Shuiyn wrote: »
    what is everyone's thoughts on this?

    i personally love the idea of dropping materials that you have been gathering etc when dying, it creates a real risk/reward feeling and makes you never feel safe in the open world

    however i feel dropping worn Armor/weapons is way to punishing, even if it is only whilst you are corrupted, been preaching this game to a lot of my mates and they are all keen to play, but this is the one mechanic we all feel is a bit to much?

    curious on what you guys think!

    I don't know if people remember that you can farm or more then one gear? People nowdays get so used to use one unique gear that is really strange....

    Just craft extra gears for gank...
  • Big BananaBig Banana Member
    edited July 2021
    I think the way it currently works or is intended to work is that the corruption bar eventually leads to the equivalent of "negative levels" where eventually you get treated as a lower level and it keeps rolling backwards unless you work it off. This means that eventually a lv 10 player who keeps getting corruption will have skills and abilities that are treated as if they're lv 9, then lv 8, etc. This would mean you at some point would be so far back that many other players would easily be able to kill you and you might be so far backwards with corruption that it would be better off just rolling a new char. So the incentive is not to go red just to gank players all the time or else your char eventually will be come useless to play. I don't think many players would want to roll a new char, grind all those lvs back, just to do it again specially when Intrepids already said it'll be weeks to months of play to cap at max lv. I don't see a reason we need to drop gear at that point.
    Big Banana
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    That's what alts are for.
    My Corrupted Zombie will be an alt - not my main.
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    .
    Big Banana wrote: »
    I think the way it currently works or is intended to work is that the corruption bar eventually leads to the equivalent of "negative levels" where eventually you get treated as a lower level and it keeps rolling backwards unless you work it off. This means that eventually a lv 10 player who keeps getting corruption will have skills and abilities that are treated as if they're lv 9, then lv 8, etc. This would mean you at some point would be so far back that many other players would easily be able to kill you and you might be so far backwards with corruption that it would be better off just rolling a new char. So the incentive is not to go red just to gank players all the time or else your char eventually will be come useless to play. I don't think many players would want to roll a new char, grind all those lvs back, just to do it again specially when Intrepids already said it'll be weeks to months of play to cap at max lv. I don't see a reason we need to drop gear at that point.

    Your level never actually drops. Your stats can be reduced to the point of being PVP ineffective. However, the stat reduction only counts in PVP. It does not count for PVE. Meaning that you can still earn experience to work off your corruption. Additionally, even if you are prevented from earning experience by being killed repeatedly as a corrupted player, the deaths will remove corruption until it is no more. It is not possible for corruption or death penalty to put you in a place that is unplayable or impossible to level out of.

    BTW, if this system of turning red works anything like many other game (such L2, which is expected) you will be dropping gear way before reaching anything like the severe levels of corruption that you are describing.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Dygz wrote: »
    That's what alts are for.
    My Corrupted Zombie will be an alt - not my main.

    What zombie alt?
    Will you spend weeks gearing that zombie alt and then lose the gear pking?

    How will you deal dmg with a zombie alt? With a lv1 weapon?

    Will you run around naked expecting to kill anyone?

    If you flag me naked, thinking that you will pk me, ill turn around and 1hit you dead.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I expect to spend some weeks getting the character to fairly high level before it's Turned into a Zombie.
    Zombies typically do not wear uber gear.
    But, I typically have tons of extra gear. Gear falling off Zombies is part of the concept of Zombies.
    How much damage I'm able to deal will depend on how much Corruption my Zombie has.
    If my Zombie has so much Corruption that you can one-shot it, great.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    What typical mmos have you played that you typically have tons of gear?
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    EQ, EQ2, WoW, NWO
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited July 2021
    Another question.
    How do you expect to access your stored gear, which you typically have lots off, with your zombie alt?
    Will you walk all the way to your honestead without being killed 100 times?
    Will you dress up, and head up to a populated area you want to cause mayhem, without dying 100 times. And losing your gear?
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited July 2021
    I don't need to access stored gear while Corrupted.
    I just need to have the gear that I want to drop on the character the first time it is Corrupted.
    But, if I want to provide that alt with different gear, later... after the entire first set of gear drops... I can get friends to help bring the character different gear. That probably would not happen in a heavily populated area.
    Losing gear would not be an issue. Zombies are supposed to lose gear.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Your unrealistic scenarios of "zombie red alt managing to kill people" wont happen.

    This is a thread asking for corruption to be less punishing. Which should not happen.

    Then you come around saying "Ill be able to kill people without fear of punishment".

    Your unrealistic scenarios will give a wrong impression to the lots of people that are (wrongfully) already terrified of being killed without their concent.

    Get a bit more in touch with the philosophy of the game.

    Gear will take effort to craft. There wont be pk zombie alts. Leveling the character and skill libes will take effort.

    Nobody, besides trolls that are just about to call it quits will go around randomly killing people.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Mostly I try to ignore your posts filling 4 pages, but that's because it's topics of "left handed character animations" or "rp tools".

    But ye, when we talk about core elements of a good old fashioned open world mmo rpg, be more in touch.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited July 2021
    There really isn't much to fear if it's already planned for your gameplay sessions.
    Especially if the entire purpose of the character is to maximize punishment.
    Corrupted alts don't have to wear gear at all.
    Also, there is not much of a reason for players to be terrified of Zombies if the Zombies are easy to kill.

    Also... I didn't say anything about randomly killing people. That is not a part of my Zombie alt concept. Other people might have that as part of their Corrupted character concept. But, you don't have to randomly kill characters in order to become Corrupt. You also don't have to grief people in order to become Corrupt.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Corrupted alts dont have to wear gear....
    Out of touch mate.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    For those playing the game at home...

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Weapons

    Gear has approximately a 40-50% influence on a player's overall power in the game.[16]

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_corruption

    Player to player trading and the ability to store items in public warehouses is disabled for corrupt players.[18]
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • MerekMerek Member
    The only reason you'd be against this is if you wanted to freely kill people without consequences, if that isn't something you want, the mechanic shouldn't worry you.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    George Black wrote: »
    Out of touch mate.

    I dont think any four words could better describe him.
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