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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
[Discussion] Leveling System vs. Skill System
D3ATHSPARK
Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
I'd like to start a discussion based around the primary source of character power in games. An MMO will typically choose one of two routes: leveling or skills. I've only seen a single MMO use a skill system but I still think it was the best designed system to ever exist. That game was Ultima Online, and in it's prime there was an amazing sense of balance and immersion.
The problem I see with a leveling system is that it puts a internal clock on a game. Most of a player's power comes from this system and the higher that number goes the more the scaling becomes a serious issue. WoW basically killed itself through this system and the many expansions it had. Leveling also felt horrible beyond Classic/TBC since the levels just lost their meaning. You also have the issue of immersion. In WoW, a level 60 player could kill a 100 players under level 10. If you think in terms of realism that wouldn't make any sense, even in a fantasy world. Experience counts for something but I've always felt you should be able to fight back even if you're far behind.
In Ultima Online the skill system countered this. While a person with low skill would miss with their weapon a lot of have their spells fizzle, they could still land blow and be impactful. A person with maxed skills would struggle to kill 10 brand new players. The power came from both skills and items which produced longevity. Items were also very simple so players weren't so attached to their gear when they lost it by dying. (Yes, you lost everything on death in UO) It was extremely immersive and it seemed to counter the problem WoW and other leveling games faced. The skill system also felt far more impactful leveling that it did a single character level in another game. You had to really work at something to become good at it and you felt the reward for doing so.
I'm curious what your guys' thoughts are on this.
Have you played a skill based MMO like Ultima Online before? Which system did you prefer and why?
The problem I see with a leveling system is that it puts a internal clock on a game. Most of a player's power comes from this system and the higher that number goes the more the scaling becomes a serious issue. WoW basically killed itself through this system and the many expansions it had. Leveling also felt horrible beyond Classic/TBC since the levels just lost their meaning. You also have the issue of immersion. In WoW, a level 60 player could kill a 100 players under level 10. If you think in terms of realism that wouldn't make any sense, even in a fantasy world. Experience counts for something but I've always felt you should be able to fight back even if you're far behind.
In Ultima Online the skill system countered this. While a person with low skill would miss with their weapon a lot of have their spells fizzle, they could still land blow and be impactful. A person with maxed skills would struggle to kill 10 brand new players. The power came from both skills and items which produced longevity. Items were also very simple so players weren't so attached to their gear when they lost it by dying. (Yes, you lost everything on death in UO) It was extremely immersive and it seemed to counter the problem WoW and other leveling games faced. The skill system also felt far more impactful leveling that it did a single character level in another game. You had to really work at something to become good at it and you felt the reward for doing so.
I'm curious what your guys' thoughts are on this.
Have you played a skill based MMO like Ultima Online before? Which system did you prefer and why?
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Comments
It is perfectly viable to have a skills based system in which a character with maxed skills could take on 100 new players, and a game that is level based where a max level character would have trouble with 10 low level characters.
And all the other categories of progression in Ashes that WoW does not have.
I'm talking as a CORE system. I think every MMO has a skill system, but it's not the same as having it your core system where everything happens.
Nodes are not for a character's core system. Nodes are for content.