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World Building / Landscape

TerfinTerfin Member, Alpha Two
in General Discussion
So i have no access to the Alpha and base this impression/opinion on what i could watch. I am also aware that these points of critic might be void with future planned changes i have no insight into.

While villages/major Buildings and Hubs look amazing, my critic refers to the in-between.
Due to what the teams has in mind for travel - we as players should have to travel a lot more overland compared to other games.
The far sight in the game is amazing and reminded me of Skyrim immediately. Big thumb up.

But now for the problematic parts:
It is all very generic and same same. Trees do not have enough variation in their placing, spacing, girth and models of the trees. Up to a point where simple variation of angle of the trees would make a huge difference, most trees give me an impression of being placed carefully, too carefully – or exactly the opposite placed by a procedural engine.
Tree bases need to connect to the ground more, have more undergrowth elements, have fallen tree logs, have monster dens of the species that inhabits the area, small assets not huge stuff.

A certain individual streamed him climbing a top of the mountains, and it was the same, blank texture for the most part. No mobs anymore at all, no vegetation that should be there even at greater heights.

Why is he talking about this like its so important when its all just empty landscape anyway and not concerning the major hub areas/dungeons?
Well exactly why make it empty spaces? Why not make it more compelling? I understand that we will likely see changes to node advancement in certain areas, but correct me if I'm wrong, most of these places will be done now, finished at hardly changed for the first one or two years after release.
Make it count. If you do look at games like WoW, usually universally praised for the art team, they managed to evolve their landscape design significantly by bringing in details with small graphical assets and lighting(AoC does this well already).

Overall thanks for the great first impression and for reading up to this point.

Comments

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2021
    It's Alpha One.
  • TerfinTerfin Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    It's Alpha One.

    of course if alpha = everything is a placeholder, but there has to be some point of discussion or the whole thing is pointless.
  • AidanKDAidanKD Member
    You are perfectly okay to post and discuss this. But honestly it is Alpha 1, so unfortunately we can't be too critical of some of the finer tunings since the intention of A1 was mostly a technical /performance test. They even noted that alot of gathering nodes will be immediately outside the starter area - but that might have only done to allow people to engage in the content.

    Things will flesh out down the line for sure - but I do encourage you to keep engaged in the forums but with a measured opinion on what to expect in each level of test I.e. A1/2 and B1/2.
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Had the same opinion, I know this is alpha one so I'm not going to be to harsh on it but as mmo players the world needs to be immersive, we want to feel as though we are stepping out if the city into a dangerous adventure/world, the zones/world need to be meaningful. The vibe I got was sort of like I stepped out into the countryside with the same tree and bush copied and pasted every 5 steps, just scaled differently,

    I know this is alpha 1 but as you said, the alpha is for bringing stuff up like this before it's to far along to change, the graphics looked nice but the reason you dont notice the 15 year old graphics in wow classic is because every zone is unique and has it's own emersive feel to it
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2021
    Terfin wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    It's Alpha One.

    of course if alpha = everything is a placeholder, but there has to be some point of discussion or the whole thing is pointless.

    That's right, @Terfin ... but in terms of the game's development, Alpha-1 isn't the best time for detailed discussion on the immersive details of world building.

    That comes later.
  • Sadistic TurtleSadistic Turtle Member
    edited July 2021
    Terfin wrote: »
    Well exactly why make it empty spaces? Why not make it more compelling? I understand that we will likely see changes to node advancement in certain areas, but correct me if I'm wrong, most of these places will be done now, finished at hardly changed for the first one or two years after release.
    From what I understand, the alpha 1 map does not closely reflect any portion of the actual world map's biome distribution and landmasses (although the world map is an older iteration), so hopefully the landscape of the final game will be much more polished.

    Though I do agree that the finalised landscape should be more lush with more immersive details - I think New World did forest environments (e.g. 1 & 2) quite well - the individual trees have a lot of detail and variation both on and around them. The current tropical beach and autumn birch biome in alpha 1 do look sparser than the concepts and renders they have shown us in their dev streams.

    Edit: see here and here for a comparison of alpha 1 and the world maps.

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2021
    Most of the places are not "done" now.
    Places are just good enough to be somewhat OK to allow outside testers to run through part of the rudimentary world.
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    i feel like alpha 1 is the best time to be bringing up these concerns, once alpha 2 and beta 1 release it may be to late to do anything about it
  • AerlanaAerlana Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Shuiyn wrote: »
    i feel like alpha 1 is the best time to be bringing up these concerns, once alpha 2 and beta 1 release it may be to late to do anything about it

    This !

    A MMORPG is a heavy game with a lot of thing to do. too much thing to do (i speak on dev side)
    But feedback during earlier part of tests, even if not the thing that is tested yet, helps devs to know where the most work is needed with what people was able to see.

    I dont know what map we will have in alpha 2. but when we reach beta1 this topic will clearly be too late if there is real problem, because we will be too late to do big changes on the landscape
  • TheDarkSorcererTheDarkSorcerer Member, Alpha Two
    Thank you OP for this thread. I think it's important to bring this up now. One thing that bothered me watching streamers was how we went from a snowy starting area and then BOOM once we reached the first node area a couple of minutes away, there's palm trees and it's very tropical. Seems like a disconnect to me. Would love it to be more gradual.
    m6jque7ofxxf.gif
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    LMAO, in this case, it's like starting a thread raising a concern that Orcs and Artisan professions won't be added to the game because they aren't in the Alpha One yet.
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz it's nothing like that, orcs and artisan are still being developed, and as far as we know this is the design that the team has chosen for the layout of the game, if this was not brought up then the game may release with the same style wich is super un immersive, I don't think anyone in this thread is under an illusion that this is the final product but bringing up these topics should be done early

    We are all looking for a new mmo to play and community feedback is super Important in these early stages!
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2021
    This is not the design the devs have chosen for the layout of the finished game.
    It's the layout that is ready for Alpha One with just enough content to allow outside testers in.
    Same for races and classes and skills and everything else in the Alpha.
    This thread is not going to make any more of difference than voicing concern that Nodes cannot reach the Metro Stage in the Alpha One.
  • neuroguyneuroguy Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2021
    I agree with the critique. But I think only one biome is currently being utilized so that may be a big reason for why it feels same same. I also think the mountain ranges should not be traversable. For the world to feel large and pathing to matter, I think having non-traversable land masses (also some exhaustion mechanic to prevent swimming across an ocean without a boat) is important. Make the world feel large, make the bridges and roads that are built/developed when nodes level up matter. If I can simply walk up and over a mountain, if I can trivially cross every ocean and river, why do boats, bridges and the like matter?
    Edit: fixed an error.
  • TheDarkSorcererTheDarkSorcerer Member, Alpha Two
    neuroguy wrote: »
    I agree with the critique. But I think only one biome is currently being utilized so that may be a big reason for why it feels same same. I also think the mountain ranges should not be traversable. For the world to feel large and pathing to matter, I think having traversable land masses (also some exhaustion mechanic to prevent swimming across an ocean without a boat) is important. Make the world feel large, make the bridges and roads that are build/developed when nodes level up matter. If I can simply walk up and over a mountain, if I can trivially cross every ocean and river, why do boats, bridges and the like matter?

    Love that idea! And i def know what you mean with walking over a mountain, i saw that yesterday. That shouldn't be possible. In ESO they have slaughterfish in the ocean that prevents players from swimming too far out. Maybe something to consider!
    m6jque7ofxxf.gif
  • MarcetMarcet Member
    I remember hearing Steven say that populating zones is the last thing, because if you want to make changes you have to clear the npcs and put them again in place after, so i guess its pointless work they don't want to do.

    Im sure you've heard him say too "This is not a content alpha", and what are you asking for? content. I mean I get you are worried but it's stricktly a "No content" alpha and you are asking for a dragon on a mountain. Everybody wants that we can just wait and see, and if you choose so, believe.
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