Loot drop on death needs to be removed (for now)

Apok

Enjoying the testing so far, been trying to knock out some crafting to see if it works, but between some mobs attacking you from where they can't be attacked and falling through the map as well as player graves not spawning, it's very easy to loose out on hours of gathering in just a few short moments.

Trowyn

I would agree. Until they at least have some sort of recovery option in place to find your body before someone else loots it.

Viymir

As the title says...

I think this is a little too harsh for an Alpha test that is live only for a few days considering the there will be wipes. For the final game fine, I dont have a problem with it and it encourages teaming up to avoid death., but in Alpha it is restricting game play too much. I want to test out things and losing my loot and resources just makes it harder in the short time we have seeing as spawns for resources seems so low.

I would like to see it switched off for testing at least to begin with.

Viymir

Just made a thread at the same time as you about the same subject. For Alpha testing i would like to see it removed its just restricting testing out other mechanics such as crafting which doesnt really make sense.

puzzler

Not a bad idea. As this Alpha has a steep entry point. As we get closer to betas and the player pool increases grouping will be much easier. I'm playing from Taiwan, so very off-hours activity. Player pool kinda small. Weird bug/spawn/mistake wipes just kicks the can backwards too much.

tankenka

Even in regular play, 50% loss is way too steep (I can't think of any games where you lose that much, not that there aren't any). If we had a corpse to run back to and pick it all up, that would be better.

LieutenantToast

Hiya friends - merged your two very similar threads together here for further discussion

Varkun

Yes just lost nearly 2 days worth of gathering for dieing to pve mobs so no further testing of the crafting system for me.
We can not even store it anywhere for safe keeping, though do realize its just alpha 1.

bloodandthunder

Varkun wrote: »

Yes just lost nearly 2 days worth of gathering for dieing to pve mobs so no further testing of the crafting system for me.
We can not even store it anywhere for safe keeping, though do realize its just alpha 1.

Some solutions would be:
A ) to give players a stash (i'm sure this will be a thing in economic city nodes with access to banks),
B ) something craftable to let players store goods in like a lock box that protect the items from being dropped/looted either in pvp or pve.
C ) stop with the scarcity of gatherables and just let people farm where and when they want to
D ) reduce the amount of loss players experience the lower the level they are
E ) all of the above!

Viymir wrote: »

Just made a thread at the same time as you about the same subject. For Alpha testing i would like to see it removed its just restricting testing out other mechanics such as crafting which doesnt really make sense.

Or just lower the requirements to craft goods. 33 lumber and 12 stone is ridiculous for 1 wand. Doesn't make any sense!

Asraiel

i can agree with the loss of farmeble ressources ether by collecting from mob loot or as open world gather my expirience is that if you die you loose 50% of them. but if they were crafted even once they dont get lost anymore. but with lvl 2 i excepted the quest to craft the wand with level 8 i still didint manage to gather all mats or better said i did gather somuch that if i wouldnt have died i could have craftet 10 wands.

a loss is ok and for alpha testing reducing the loss from the current 50% to only 10% would have a big impact allredy.
but best hint here is that if u wanna craft something specific that requires processed mats then do it so you wont loose the processed ressources.

btw for the wand in my quest it was 24 wood 8 stone and 6 lesser essence.

the loss on death also impacts the gather of gold if u die befor reaching a merchant u loose 50% of the gold you would have made by selling the goods. and without gold you cant test the more expensive parts of the game like houseing, tradeing and more

here just a few mentions on prices getting the good tools needs 2'500+500+200+100+100=3'400 gold only to get the highest gather tools then comes a mount with 80 gold and an appartment in a village with 2'500 gold. so tecnicly starting on around 6'000 gold missing and it will take a long time to get that amount specialy with the death & loss

Asraiel

What also might work is a over time building up loss if you die like the longer you play the higher to loss can get like:
every hour without death the loss on death increses by 10% up to 50% but will get resetted once u died.
that would lead to:
0-0.99 h = 0% loss on death
1-1.99 h = 10%
2-2.99 h = 20%
3-3.99 h = 30%
4-4.99 h = 40%
5+ h = 50%
After death it resets to 0% and starts again. (steps may be higher like a increse every 30 mins or compleatly diffrent)

that would also add to kinda to the risk and reward if you take care can save your loot regulary u may not loose it and starters may not have the problem of loosing items in the early state.

Varkun

I honestly came to the conclusion that I simply need to craft something I want as soon as I can and thus not be hauling around as many resources even if it is above my level to wear. You do not drop gear so I guess that is my solution for now.

skybourne

The loot drop on death is one that is very hindersome at this point. Not corpse to go recover what you lost. And losing items that are scarce to find in the first place is a struggle. Death penalty is fine but at this point I would rather see equipment damage that can be repaired and/or xp that needs to be earned to get back to where you were rather than losing loot. If not at least give players a chance to recover what they lost.

bloodandthunder

Varkun wrote: »

I honestly came to the conclusion that I simply need to craft something I want as soon as I can and thus not be hauling around as many resources even if it is above my level to wear. You do not drop gear so I guess that is my solution for now.

I think a dark souls approach where if you can get to your last death point you get everything back is a perfect system, but if you die a second time you lose everything from the death penalty.

I greatly think that this would be WELL received by a large portion of the player base because it's punishing, but not crippling.

The risk v reward is there, if you delve too deep into a dangerous zone there's a chance you may die on the corpse run back, so it makes THAT realm of gameplay tight, while not utterly devastating a new player that made one mistake...

flatlander

It is very very easy to "not die" on almost all MMOs including this one and most people die simply because they are doing things above what they should be doing, or bugs.

Now going out at level 4 and killing level 15 mobs is fun and challenging but you should expect to sometimes lose if everything doesn't go perfect. And over time you will learn that carrying everything you own on you isn't a good idea. I'm sure they will have a storage in town (if they don't already) that you can use to store your goods, and the general idea would be to leave town, go gain loot/resources, make it back to town and deposit the loot you have gained.

If there isn't a way to currently store goods in town, then I think that should be added. But other than that I see nothing wrong with dropping 50% of your stackable loots.

Ir1shguy

I think the loss of something at death is great in games as it makes people think more about what they are doing instead of blindly button mashing like most MMOs have become these days. This needs to stay in alpha and be tweaked is all. Fix it so a tombstone appears on players map and lock it for X minutes till another player can loot it and X minutes again till it decomposes, this is in so many survival games and works well.

I do agree that maybe have a scaling penalty so new players are penalized less at lower levels and only lose a % of inventory instead of everything they just spent hours gathering.

Menda Goodbody

When you die, you lose half of collect resources (wood, plants, iron, etc). My question is, should the half you dropped be on the ground to go back and get or should it be gone forever?

I personally think you should have a limited amount of time to go get the items off the ground.

McShave

Firstly idk if it is half of things you have. Much more realistic if it was 20% or less. Also I think it should be lootable, but only by the person that killed you. It would give you a chance to get back the stuff you dropped. Just an idea tho, not sure what Intrepid has in mind.

Atama

McShave wrote: »

Firstly idk if it is half of things you have. Much more realistic if it was 20% or less.

Currently it seems to be half, rounded up. So if you have 3 items you lose 2, if you have 1 you lose it. That may be adjusted later but that's how it is now.

Also I think it should be lootable, but only by the person that killed you.

In PvP it is supposed to be lootable. However, you only drop 25% if you are flagged for PvP. If you aren't flagged for PvP and they are attacking you, you drop 50% but they also gain corruption.

It would give you a chance to get back the stuff you dropped.

Well, maybe. Let's say you are flagged for PvP (you are "purple") and you have 20 rocks. You get killed and drop 5 rocks. That person loots your 5 rocks.

Now you respawn, which is unlikely to be all that close to where you died. So you can run back to where you died and hope they are still there to be attacked, but they might not be. So then you have to track them down... How?

Let's say you find them. You hope they still have what you looted, and didn't sell it to a vendor, or drop it in storage, and so on. You attack them and hope you win. If you lose, of course you just lost even more resources (and that player has to be laughing and thanking you for your generosity). If you win, then they drop 25% of their resources. If all they had was your rocks... You got 2 rocks. (25% of 5 rocks is 1.25 which rounds up to 2.) You've still lost those other 3 rocks.

Or you get lucky and they had 40 rocks, and you get 10 rocks, so you end up with a profit. Hooray! That's PvP for you, it's a gamble.

Azherae

Menda Goodbody wrote: »

When you die, you lose half of collect resources (wood, plants, iron, etc). My question is, should the half you dropped be on the ground to go back and get or should it be gone forever?

I personally think you should have a limited amount of time to go get the items off the ground.

Just in case it's unclear, you do have the time to go back and pick the items up off the ground, whenever you die to a mob.

What it doesn't do right now, is mark the spot for you in any way. You have to 'pay close attention to your surroundings or move to an easily recognizable area' if you think you're about to die.

My group reports an average of 7 minutes to get back to your stuff and pick it up before it seemingly disappears, and so far, all reports have been that you get everything back.

Note that someone else can find this spot and take everything before you get there.

Varkun

Just to add if you refine the materials you do not drop any refined materials at this point in time. So go work out what you would like to craft ahead of time and refine what you need accordingly.

Interestingly I have had no trouble finding enough materials to craft with the only item I can not seem to find is hardened leather or a vendor that sells it. Does anyone have an idea where it comes from?

LieutenantToast

Looping in another similar thread here as well!

Varkun

Yes looting those sparkles where others have died.

Menda Goodbody

Thanks, guys! As far as leather, I have seen none, sorry.

zunymitshu07

If your response is, its easy to get items and money then why is the loot drop implemented but loot occurrence is so high?

Kittx

Because we don't want a carebear themepark.

LieutenantToast

Added in another thread!

nefelia

I died four times in the course of an hour or two on my first day of testing. I learned to be a lot more cautious since, and have not experienced a fifth death (knock on wood). The loss of loot serves as a strong incentive to not be negligent.

I've pretty much done as Varkun suggested. I found myself with a bit too much loot in my inventory, so I sold enough to get myself up to 1000 gold and ended up buying the steel pick-axe and the cultivator. And all of my herbs have been processed into powder. Hopefully the reports are true and I won't lose them should I get squashed again.

Kyra_Rose

I would like to see this removed. Its kinda WoW Style, losing stuff when dying. It is annoying running around harvesting, then get attacked by a mob and die. Then someone else passes through and loots your stuff, great. Not sure how that helps improving the economy and your character. It will just be annoying

Or you try and kill a world boss or something, people could just go around and loot all the corpses.

I would prefer it the other way, your gear gets broken, you lose stats until its repaired. Simple and still a punishment.

santiago

Well... doing this now is very demotivating to continued testing (having loot drop on death). Testing is often painful enough with bugs and all the rest... but these penalties on top of it don't make me want to jump back into the game especially when many of the deaths are due to bugs and other issues. Not to mention some of the difficulties getting materials AND the fairly extreme amounts needed to craft certain items like rare armor.

I get it, we want death to be meaningful, but I'm not sure how this is the right way to go about it. But setting that aside certainly having it this way when you need players playing to test. It's a tough call.

Shinozuka

bloodandthunder wrote: »

Varkun wrote: »

Yes just lost nearly 2 days worth of gathering for dieing to pve mobs so no further testing of the crafting system for me.
We can not even store it anywhere for safe keeping, though do realize its just alpha 1.

Some solutions would be:
A ) to give players a stash (i'm sure this will be a thing in economic city nodes with access to banks),
B ) something craftable to let players store goods in like a lock box that protect the items from being dropped/looted either in pvp or pve.
C ) stop with the scarcity of gatherables and just let people farm where and when they want to
D ) reduce the amount of loss players experience the lower the level they are
E ) all of the above!

I agree with all these. I was just getting ready to post and ask if the 50% has been discussed for the final release (I know that is FAR AWAY) or if 50% is just a placeholder.

50% seems fairly steep. I think if we had storage /stash it would help a lot. And if the gatherable items were easier to find. The idea of a container we must craft to store items in that is immune to death is interesting.

I will say I hope by release the game has a bank/storage system. I am the guy who always has too much stuff on me and in the bank as well.