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Lifting NDA might have been a mistake.

Topcatrs88Topcatrs88 Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I am starting to think that lifting the NDA might have been a mistake. I've seen too many streamers read the opening status message and then start criticizing the content that they just read was not in the test and the purpose of the test. With as much as we've been told that a lot of the stuff we are seeing is either place holder or stuff for us to occupy ourselves with while they collect data, I feel its not being addressed enough to viewers. I'm seeing a lot of people go in to streams thinking this is what the game will be at launch and that this game is a scam yadda yadda and these streamers aren't addressing any of the information they were asked to about the test. I almost wish a side scrolling banner was constantly moving across the everyone's screen along the top to get this information out there. Anyone else noticing this stuff?

Comments

  • BlairBlair Member
    Your always going to get people who take the game at face value. Best thing is too inform as many people as possible and take it on the chin. they'll come around when the game releases they just need time.
  • its expected
  • Topcatrs88Topcatrs88 Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I understand that, but I feel I'm not seeing the information addressed enough. Its one thing to go in with little knowledge of the purpose of this test but another thing to leave with no more information than your entered with.
  • Topcatrs88 wrote: »
    I understand that, but I feel I'm not seeing the information addressed enough. Its one thing to go in with little knowledge of the purpose of this test but another thing to leave with no more information than your entered with.

    You're right, @Topcatrs88.

    But you know what else?

    You can't control streamers' content, opinions, or shortfallings.

    You can control whether you follow them, subscribe, or the feedback you give them through Twitch or Discord.
  • SamsonSamson Member
    Overall I think lifting the NDA will be beneficial in the long run. Some people may be turned off and will criticize what they see during these open alpha tests but all in all, I believe the good will outweigh the bad. And as the game progresses in development, I'm sure many of the doubters will eventually turn around. :)
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  • GrowlithekidGrowlithekid Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter
    Same thing happened when Apocalypse came out to test the combat. Lots of people thought that Intrepid changed the game into a battle royale to chase the hype when that's just one of the best environments to test purely combat. Just a bunch of ignorant people.
  • AerlanaAerlana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Asmongold for example took time to read all the pop-up that shows up. other not.

    Streaming is not just "play the game" but lot of streamer "just play the game". And this is what you speak about.
    Also, people are fast to criticize just to criticize.

    And finally, there is just people unable to have a begining of mind. See all speaking about a 500$ alpha, while steven said clearly "don't buy it to play the game"... Also who don't know what an alpha test really is. With blizzard "alpha" tests that are more a beta test, and "beta test" closer to a early release.


    Lot of people in gaming comunity are just young people, who wants all for free... Remember back in FFXIV beta some guys explaining that no MMORPG can be successfull with subscription model because gaming have to be free to play now.
    When they see a "pre-order" with 75$ to 500$ (higher than a AAA game ! ) they consider it is only cash grab. also the term "pre-order" is really bad choice. supporter pack would be better (but it is done)


    Now, lets be honest. large part of people came because "WTF this unknwon game with 200k viewers on twitch?!" (at around 12PM). And mostly people just enjoying streamers without knowing anything about videogames development. 200k is far more than mmorpg viewers when there is not asmongold or special thing (xpac, wow esport, etc)


    The lift of the NDA is a risk, but most people playing alpha are here to TEST and not PLAY.
    Most people who payed the 500$ knows what they pay for (support the game, not "prebuy" or anything)
    The NDA lift doesnt change anything for most alpha people.


    And finally, those critics and mocking people are not so bad :
    It help to reduce the hype... "the hype train never stops where you think it is going to stops".
    This hype as 2 flaws
    1) too much expectation, and so with a later NDA lift, stronger is the fall back to reality.
    The hype is giving a game 21/20. if the game is 16/20, while you had too much hope, to much trust in how perfect it will be, you will see the game as a poor 8/20... and leave with salty tears, you will hardly come back.
    2) Hype is like love, it makes people blind... and blind people are the worst one to gives opinion to devs to make the game better.

    The early NDA lift make people that don't play alpha 1/2 to return to reality, and now, follow progression of the game. even those who spits now will be able to see progress in alpha2 then betas.
    Those spits now helps us to get more opinions. Allow us to be ourself more critics about what we have.
  • TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack
    Eh. If people can't read then that's their own fault. Even if people get turned off the game for now, people will begin taking notice again when the content starts to get added during mid-late Alpha 2.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    The mistake was allowing streamers access at all.

    Lifting the NDA so people could share their experience here and on Discord/Reddit is fine, as there will always be someone around to put an inaccurate assumption right. On streams though, people are only paying attention to the streamer, and the streamer is about providing entertainment to their viewers, not providing information.

    I don't even blame the streamers for this, I blame the people that go to streams looking for information or accuracy, rather than just entertainment. IMO if people that are that far removed from reality don't end up playing Ashes, it will just mean a better community for the rest of us.
  • It's the reality of 2021 and we have to live with it. We were a lot more patient in 2003-2009 when some of us first started playing MMOS and we knew what was what. You have to remember that a lot of viewers/streamers are either only one-game andies, or play variety and aren't very familiar with MMOs or its development.

    Asmongold ,for example, did a great job reminding his chat that this is alpha and a bare bone version of the game. Others, however, will not do it. I can guarantee you that the vast majority of people do not know what 'alpha' means in terms of game development - and it's fine.

    Lifting the NDA will allow devs to spot issues that perhaps they'd otherwise would be unable to spot at those early developmental stages. So it's a positive on all counts for me.
  • Talents wrote: »
    Eh. If people can't read then that's their own fault. Even if people get turned off the game for now, people will begin taking notice again when the content starts to get added during mid-late Alpha 2.

    This, i believe even if alot of people hated what they saw, people still gonna watch alpha 2 footage, and Alpha 2 will be really important to show the progress that can be made beteween alpha to alpha, that way people will start believing in the project
  • MerekMerek Member
    Same thing happened when Apocalypse came out to test the combat. Lots of people thought that Intrepid changed the game into a battle royale to chase the hype when that's just one of the best environments to test purely combat. Just a bunch of ignorant people.

    It was definitely to chase the hype because nothing from Apocalypse has been taken into the actual game, the current combat is more reminiscent of ESO or GW2. Maybe backend was carried over? But that's about it. And it was actually jarring to see that when they released it, worrying stuff. Glad it's buried.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Noaani wrote: »
    I don't even blame the streamers for this, I blame the people that go to streams looking for information or accuracy, rather than just entertainment. IMO if people that are that far removed from reality don't end up playing Ashes, it will just mean a better community for the rest of us.

    Watching a streamer to learn about a game is like watching a stand-up comedian to get the news.
     
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  • darkrangerdarkranger Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Topcatrs88 wrote: »
    I am starting to think that lifting the NDA might have been a mistake. I've seen too many streamers read the opening status message and then start criticizing the content that they just read was not in the test and the purpose of the test. With as much as we've been told that a lot of the stuff we are seeing is either place holder or stuff for us to occupy ourselves with while they collect data, I feel its not being addressed enough to viewers. I'm seeing a lot of people go in to streams thinking this is what the game will be at launch and that this game is a scam yadda yadda and these streamers aren't addressing any of the information they were asked to about the test. I almost wish a side scrolling banner was constantly moving across the everyone's screen along the top to get this information out there. Anyone else noticing this stuff?

    I stream the game and i try to give my honest opinion about . for example i enjoy the game but i express to whoever come and ask me . is this WOW killer or FF14 replacement that we are still long way to go to call it a finished product. But it has good foundation
  • DreohDreoh Member
    edited July 2021
    Zyggi wrote: »
    Asmongold ,for example, did a great job reminding his chat that this is alpha and a bare bone version of the game. Others, however, will not do it. I can guarantee you that the vast majority of people do not know what 'alpha' means in terms of game development - and it's fine.

    This is why I think they should add a bigger (yet still unobtrusive) watermark that says more than just "alpha one preview".

    Maybe saying, "Developmental alpha one. Thank you for helping us test core systems! Most content subject to change and optimization" or something more thought out at the top or bottom of the screen or in some corner or something so that people tuning in to streams long after the initial message (that most streamers didn't even read out loud) can still get that little reminder of what they're looking at.

    If you watch streamers at all, you'll know how often they get asked the same question repeatedly by new people who start watching every 30 seconds unless there's some kind of in-your-face info

    Watermarks aren't unheard of for alphas and betas either, so it won't be anything out of the ordinary.
  • MakinojiMakinoji Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter
    edited July 2021
    Not to beat a dead horse but I watched around 10 different streamers when I don't usually watch any so it was hard to do. Anyway, each of their comment sections was filled with "what parts would you change or feel need work?"
    To which the streamers replied with a "nothing, the game is perfect " or one guy I saw said, "nothing, this is what it is just going to add some pretty cosmetics".....

    Another female streamer read the entire objective of the alpha to her viewers and then proceeded to say "I wonder why all this stuff isn't working properly?" when some mobs were glitching out ...smh

    I am just at a loss for words honestly. I remember testing ESO and seeing the same thing being done.

    Maybe IS will do better, only time will tell.
  • MarcetMarcet Member
    I don't understand people saying "this game looks like shit". Man the game looks better in alpha than most games at release. They must be trolls or very young kids obsessed with photorealistic graphics.

    The reality is this alpha surpassed my expectations, the bones are there, if they fill it with content and life, with all the systems functioning by player interaction.. this will be THE game. We are getting big quality from IS, that quality and care for the game has to atract a lot of players.
  • GrappLrGrappLr Member, Alpha One
    I think the Alpha has been a great success thus far.

    At the end of the day, what's important is that the core of the game, the skeleton that holds everything together, is well made. And the engine, the feel, the movement and optimization (for an alpha) so far I think exceeded most people's expectations. I was expecting to see much worse.

    Sure, some people might come in knowing nothing about the game, thinking "really, this is it, this is the new game everyone's hyped out?". But those people will be back on launch of the game, and forget about their old opinions. Everyone who was in the know, or at least most, are pleasantly surprised I believe thus far.
  • I feel it gives a great look into game development. A form of transparency that we as streamers that do realize what it takes to create and develop games, we need to do our part to counter those who do not. Not everyone will understand it. There are many people who play but are not gamers and that's ok. As long as every step of the way, we do our part it will be successful. Positive, Patient, Inclusive Community Building.
  • Streaming also showed people this is a real game and not just concept art. Those who are less cynical about the game were given more to latch on to and get excited about. The hype with those who were already excited went through the roof too. The game will continue to improve and people who wrote it off will have reason to at least look at it again and ultimately, the game will live or die by its merit. If it is a good game, it will get popular, if it is not, it won't simple as that. I think it is ridiculous to claim the success or failure of the game will be based on what some streamers say... it may delay or prolong the rise/fall of the game but it won't change it.
  • edited July 2021
    Anyone who has a comment like " this is trash" without providing any relatively intellectual feedback is not worth giving the time of day to.

    Most people just ignore them instead of giving them the attention they crave or negative trolling they hope to induce.

    In regards to the NDA being lifted "too" early, it's fine as everyone is aware this is an Alpha.
    Games generally have multiple phases of alpha and beta. Most people shit on things they don't understand because their expectations are falsified by ignorance.
  • ConradConrad Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I'm just hoping to get to testing tulnar character creation and dual wield combat asap. Want to playtest the hell out of those 2.

    Game looks great for an alpha so I'm pretty glad I spent that £366 for it 😆
  • ElolamElolam Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I'm eligible to Alpha 2, but am seriously considering to buy into Alpha 1. I am somewhat new to MMORPG's, because I deliberately skipped WoW back in the day. Now I am very interested to see how a world comes to life and to be a part of it from the beginning seems like the way to go for me. Lifting the NDA at a true alpha-phase is a good choice for the many reasons already listed in this thread. People get to see it become alive and that will over time generate more hype than keeping things secret until release.
  • AerlanaAerlana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 2021
    Strouss wrote: »
    As long as every step of the way, we do our part it will be successful. Positive, Patient, Inclusive Community Building.

    While any other game is "a game"
    A MMORPG is "game + comunity".
    We saw it perfectly with WoW classic : the game itself is poor, many lack of QoL, not so much content, etc. (I loved it back in release but if wow classic appeared today... wouldnt be the same success at all) BUT the game generates the community spirit a lot of wow players wanted to see back.

    We have to be open minded to other people, The game will speak to the "old mind MMORPG" people, but can speak to very casual since the game will be lot living group where everyone can help. It can totally wellcome lot of roleplayer, manythings we can see now in alpha 1 allows to imagine lot of thing to do as roleplayers. There will be room for min-maxer/hardcore gamers with mostly competitive spirit (more than "social spirit"), on one part, i trust intrepid studio to do really challenging world bosses, but PvP can speak a lot to hardcore. The game won't please everyone and i said elsewhere "good thing" but it can please nearly any kind of people. Even the one that don't have any clue about a game development.

    And for a quite niche game, it is the comunity that can makes it successfull. By being turned to outside, to all people that could want to come. Wellcoming the others, listen and speak with other. And During test phase, listen even more to critics even those we think are dumb. from ignorants can come more fresh thought that a guy who know too much project. Like a child with his naiv and innocent mind, that can point thing that too much experienced adult didnt even realised.


    And the lift of the NDA allows the AoC community to communicate avec other people. to show them the pro and cons of this kind of game and also, have their thought to push our reflexion.
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited July 2021
    I said this before the NDA dropped, that i had concerns people wouldn't understand that it was a true alpha.

    But then the Alpha NDA dropped and i realized it went pretty well and anyone who wants to complain can go fuck a cactus, because what they think means fuck all to the product quality.

    We need to stop with the misconception that everyone needs to like something for it to be good. Some people are just garbage and like to make everything around them garbage, so they focus on the negative. Why even bother with what they think. What did you think? What will you think in a year?

    Fuck all those other people.
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  • RisingPhoenixRisingPhoenix Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    This is beyond the grasp of some and guess what... its meant to be. Good or bad press is still press. This is in my opinion a very calculated step on Intrepid's part to further narrow the distance between devs and players. Anyone who takes any streamers opinion as gold..good or bad..is lacking some core intellectual rational. Why... we all have expectations and styles..and there is absolutely no way the game is even close to allow true and critical judgment. Folks need to relax and understand we have been given a unique chance to help develop a nextgen MMO. Gut feeling is when all the sour folks disappear.. whats left will be a community that will be in game for years. Furthermore, AOC will set a new level for others to reach and all of us will be a part of that. Thus far... support, issue response, patching, top down involvement and listening to us is far beyond other AAA companies.
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